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ToS Warning - According to Linden Labs.....


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is it accepted by LL? 

 

"ToS Warning - According to Linden Labs, disclosure of logs without prior consent is a violation of the ToS. I am clearly stating to you, that by IM'ing me, having read or not having read these statements, you consent to being logged and that those logs can be used at my discretion without any further notice beyond these statements.  All public chat is logged and considered public property because it's business conducted in plain view and therefore not regulated by Second Life privacy constraints unless you tell me you do not wish to have your statements disclosed.
Note: I do reserve the right to copy and paste IM chat."

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Gerigo wrote:

is it accepted by LL?

No, it's not, as has been clarified many times (others will provide the exact quote, I expect). People that copy-paste this in their profiles are, for the most part, under the delusion that making it sound like legal jargon gives it more weight.

Others aren't under such delusion and are perfectly aware that it's a void warning; they just don't care.

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Gerigo wrote:

is it accepted by LL? 

 

"ToS Warning - According to Linden Labs, disclosure of logs without prior consent is a violation of the ToS. I am clearly stating to you, that by IM'ing me, having read or not having read these statements, you consent to being logged and that those logs can be used at my discretion without any further notice beyond these statements.  All public chat is logged and considered public property because it's business conducted in plain view and therefore not regulated by Second Life privacy constraints unless you tell me you do not wish to have your statements disclosed.

Note: I do reserve the right to copy and paste IM chat."

As I answered in your other thread:

"By using Second Life, you agree to and accept these Terms of Service. If you do not so agree, you should decline this Agreement, in which case you are prohibited from accessing or using Second Life."

https://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php

Anything he may say contrary to the TOS is worthless!

He agreed, he accepted.

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Confirmation that message logs cannot be shared without consent, and that remote monitoring is prohibited within the Second Life platform:


Community Standards (4) Disclosure:

Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.


http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php

This supercedes any non-authoritive (not-LL) disclaimer written inside a profile, although permission could be given before or after transmission of conversation takes place.

Note that this doesn't cover websites, forums, blogs, Facebook's, Twitter's, or any other system not connected to secondlife.com or operated by Linden Lab.

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You can't join SL and then choose which parts of the TOS you'll follow by posting some silly disclaimer in your profile. If you think you can, you're just ignorant. It's like posting a sign on your car saying I will run red lights anytime I choose.  Not only will you get a ticket if you do run a red light, you may end up dead.

If you share an IM without the permission of the other party or parties they can AR you and you can be suspended  If an IM is truly innocuous then you should have no problem getting permission if you wish to share it, right?

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

You can't join SL and then choose which parts of the TOS you'll follow by posting some silly disclaimer in your profile. If you think you can, you're just ignorant. It's like posting a sign on your car saying I will run red lights anytime I choose.  Not only will you get a ticket if you do run a red light, you may end up dead.

If you share an IM without the permission of the other party or parties they can AR you and you can be suspended  If an IM is truly innocuous then you should have no problem getting permission if you wish to share it, right?

Totally agree, Amethyst.  I'm seeing a new version of those bogus profile TOS statements and, sadly, by people in positions of leadership in serious (ie. non-rp) sims.  The new "wrinkle" adds that by having this in their profile, whether you have read it or not, it *assumes* consent from the other person/s.  Now how can one consent to something they haven't read? :matte-motes-mad: (In addition to the fact that it's STILL against LL TOS.)

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

You can't join SL and then choose which parts of the TOS you'll follow by posting some silly disclaimer in your profile. If you think you can, you're just ignorant. It's like posting a sign on your car saying I will run red lights anytime I choose.  Not only will you get a ticket if you do run a red light, you may end up dead.

If you share an IM without the permission of the other party or parties they can AR you and you can be suspended  If an IM is truly innocuous then you should have no problem getting permission if you wish to share it, right?

Totally agree, Amethyst.  I'm seeing a new version of those bogus profile TOS statements and, sadly, by people in positions of leadership in serious (ie. non-rp) sims.  The new "wrinkle" adds that by having this in their profile,
whether you have read it or not
, it *assumes* consent from the other person/s.  Now how can one consent to something they haven't read? :matte-motes-mad: (In addition to the fact that it's STILL against LL TOS.)

 

I have a counter disclaimer in my profile just educate these people that says

DISCLAIMER- Valid if read or not

You can't join SL and then choose which parts of the TOS you'll follow by posting some silly disclaimer in your profile. If you think you can, you're just ignorant, so I'm stating to you clearly that YOU DO NOT HAVE MY PERMISSION to share any IM with me with anyone else. If you do, I'll AR you and you'll find out how worthless your dumb a$$ disclaimer is.

I have actually on two occasions AR'd someone with those silly disclaimers in their profile that shared IM's without my permission.  They concerned their bad behavior on my sim..  Not that the IM was anything I didn't care to make public, but just to prove the point.  Both parties got a 2 week suspension as a result and the disclaimer disappeared from their profile.

I have noticed that the people who have those disclaimers are generally trouble or drama queens.  Its a prime indication to me that I want nothing to do with them.

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Absolutly right. I instantly assume they are dramaqueens, because for what else do they need to share chatlogs with other residents on a regular basis? Also assumeing that they deserve to violate anybodies privacy indicates what kind of person they are. Only thing they deserve is a strong kick right into their private parts.

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When I've read this in people's profiles I've often wondered what makes them think their own made up disclaimer gives them the right to void parts of the tos. It is humorous in a pathetic way. I will admit that I avoid the ones who have these disclaimers in their profile because I tend to agree they are out searching for drama.

 

 

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Some even say on their profiles that they reserve the right to log and publish anything anyone says in chat or IM, but other people are not allowed to publish anything THEY say!  Clearly they are just silly people talking nonsense!

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I like the explanation in the wiki http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Residents'_privacy_rights, especially the part about printing out the conversations and posting them on utility poles. 

 

"Disclosing private Second Life conversations

Sharing or posting a conversation inworld or in the Second Life forums without consent of all involved Residents is a violation of the Terms of Service.

NOTE: This does not include posting of chat to social media sites or other websites. Posting such logs on web pages, emailing them, or printing them out and posting them on utility poles in the "real world" -- are all actions beyond the scope of the Second Life Terms of Service. ; while that might be illegal, but those laws must be enforced by the proper law enforcement agencies."

 

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Rhys Goode wrote:

I like the explanation in the wiki 
, especially the part about printing out the conversations and posting them on utility poles. 

 

"Disclosing private Second Life conversations

Sharing or posting a conversation inworld or in the Second Life forums without consent of all involved Residents is a violation of the Terms of Service.

NOTE
: This does not include posting of chat to social media sites or other websites. Posting such logs on web pages, emailing them, or printing them out and posting them on utility poles in the "real world" -- are all actions beyond the scope of the Second Life Terms of Service. ; while that might be illegal, but those laws must be enforced by the proper law enforcement agencies."

 

LOL. I had to go read the wiki page just to make sure you weren't kidding: I'd never even noticed that comment although I've probably seen that paragraph quoted twenty times.

I kinda like the idea. You could add IM logs to Yard Sale posters and things like that :-).

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Dillon Levenque wrote:


Rhys Goode wrote:

I like the explanation in the wiki 
, especially the part about printing out the conversations and posting them on utility poles. 

 

"Disclosing private Second Life conversations

Sharing or posting a conversation inworld or in the Second Life forums without consent of all involved Residents is a violation of the Terms of Service.

NOTE
: This does not include posting of chat to social media sites or other websites. Posting such logs on web pages, emailing them, or printing them out and posting them on utility poles in the "real world" -- are all actions beyond the scope of the Second Life Terms of Service. ; while that might be illegal, but those laws must be enforced by the proper law enforcement agencies."

 

LOL. I had to go read the wiki page just to make sure you weren't kidding: I'd never even noticed that comment although I've probably seen that paragraph quoted twenty times.

I kinda like the idea. You could add IM logs to Yard Sale posters and things like that :-).

 

Dillon insults Maddy.jpg

... glares at Dillon.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

Ha. There's a painting by an apparently prescient 17th century Spaniard on that theme. It's called 'The Sins of Madelaine'.

Prescient indeed. Surely by now that list of sins has spooled out of the skybox and threatens Forgotten City air traffic. The busy ditch won't even buy me a decent pair of shoes.

Maddy

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The "or if you have not read this" part always makes me tilt my head sideways. I mean...?

All of the people in the world? You owe me a million dollars, whether you have read this or not.

Yeah because, that's totally logical and legally binding. Mm-hmm.

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  • 6 months later...

There's another thread from about two years ago wherein someone quite cogently explained *why* these disclaimers are worthless, and based on that, I wrote up the following to put in my picks:

Why Your IM Disclaimer Is Invalid

IM disclaimers are NOT valid. A disclaimer can only exist where there is a contract between two parties, such as a warranty which may disclaim responsibility for damage incurred due to mis- use (manufacturer and purchaser) or terms of service (user and service provider). I agreed to the ToS when I clicked "I Accept", but that did not involve you; it established a contract between me and LL. You are in no way party to that contract. Your contract, when you agreed to the ToS, is between you and LL. Therefore, you cannot disclaim any part of *my* contract with LL. You must have my express consent, meaning you must actively ASK me and I must actively AGREE. Only YES means YES; anything else means NO. Including silence.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/IM-Sharing-Disclaimers-are-they-valid-Is-there-any-way-to-make/td-p/995829/page/4

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  • 1 month later...

I hate to break it to all of you who think the TOS is a super barrier of privacy but disclosing conversatios is NOT a violation of TOS if it is not done inworld or SL forums...

 

you can copy and past any conversation from SL you want, as long as you don't repost it inworld or on any SL site.

 

just check the SL wiki on the matter... excerpt below

Remote Monitoring

Remotely monitoring inworld conversations (text or voice chat) without the knowledge or consent of all parties involved is a violation of the Terms of Service. If you feel recording a conversation is necessary, post a clearly-visible sign in the recording location so that all Residents who enter can see it.

32px-KBnote.png Note: If you record a conversation, and someone complains, then the abuse team will determine if you provided sufficient notice to the Residents recorded. Proceed with caution, provide documentation on your efforts to inform all parties they are being monitored, and find a secure area before recording begins.

 

Disclosing private Second Life conversations

Sharing or posting a conversation inworld or in the Second Life forums without consent of all involved Residents is a violation of the Terms of Service.

NOTE: This does not include posting of chat to social media sites or other websites. Posting such logs on web pages, emailing them, or printing them out and posting them on utility poles in the "real world" -- are all actions beyond the scope of the Second Life Terms of Service. ; while that might be illegal, but those laws must be enforced by the proper law enforcement agencies.

"Conversation" means text that originally came from Second Life chat or Second Life instant messages. If it's totally unattributed, then it isn't considered disclosure. Additionally, Residents are not punished for sharing or posting a comment such as "Bob Resident said, 'You're the greatest!'"

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0seagypsy0 wrote:

I hate to break it to all of you who think the TOS is a super barrier of privacy but disclosing conversatios is NOT a violation of TOS if it is not done inworld or SL forums...you can copy and past any conversation from SL you want, as long as you don't repost it inworld or on any SL site.


And LL can close your account for any reason or no reason at all.

Wooja . . . wanttotestyouropinionincourt

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they can, that's true, but they would lose revenue if htey did that. If they want to make it a violotion to post outside of SL they can do that. I know of plenty of websites that state it in their TOS. They may not be able to delete what you post outside their site but they can terminate their account.


LL seems to have already taken a stance on this situation and does not state any warning that they will do such a thing.

And sometimes there is a good reason to post a conversation publicly. Like in my case being harrassed by a merchant because I gave them a mediocre review on their product. Especially when that harrassment included threats of false complaints and flagging of the review.


I followed the rules though. You can record a conversation if you have a sign blatantly posted in the area hte conversation takes place. And I did. She however did not. She posted a snippet of our private conversation in the comments area of the reviews on market place for the product in question. And she ommitted huge portions of the conversation putting me in a shady slant.

Even now she is posting things inworld and on her profile about me, that it seems LL already has warned her about. as it seems one portion of what she posted is a iteration of the policies against harrassment. I didn't even see what she originally posted. They must have just checked her out from her false reports against me.

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But the TOS disclaimer picks are still made by idiots. You can NOT enforce them on me by assumeing I have read any sort of bull**bleep**. And those people believe that they actually can share IMs in Second Life/the forum. Of course nobody said that the ToS protects from disclosing information on any 3rd party blog/page/forum/whatever.

Last but not least such claims stated in a profile are good warining signs for a lack of common sense, intelligence and courtsey and a desperate need for drama.

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