I have a Problem and need advice.......................

[BrianL61 Landar]

Ok here's the set up, I'm BrianL61 Landar (A.K.A. Prof.Grey)  I run the Arcadia Asylum Living Libraries and freebie centers.

Recently I was approached by several Different individuals who want to start freebie centers over on inworldz and on the OS grid.

I have spoken With the lady behind the Arcadia Asylum and Aley Aria Avatars (she has returned to SL as Aley Resident.)

And she said yes do it,  And has given me authorization to download all of her items past and present for upload to these worlds.

 

How can I legally do this with out violating The TOS, I know having her permission is the first step.

But what software do I need that is OK with The TOS.

 

I have read on the wiki that copybotting is not a violation of the TOS, unless used to STEAL someone else's work or intellectual property.

 

I thank you all for any  help or advice You may have.

 

Prof. Grey

Another computer illiterate.

[Perrie Juran]

---

BrianL61 Landar wrote:

Ok here's the set up, I'm BrianL61 Landar (A.K.A. Prof.Grey)  I run the Arcadia Asylum Living Libraries and freebie centers.

Recently I was approached by several Different individuals who want to start freebie centers over on inworldz and on the OS grid.

I have spoken With the lady behind the Arcadia Asylum and Aley Aria Avatars (she has returned to SL as Aley Resident.)

And she said yes do it,  And has given me authorization to download all of her items past and present for upload to these worlds.

 

How can I legally do this with out violating The TOS, I know having her permission is the first step.

But what software do I need that is OK with The TOS.

 

I have read on the wiki that copybotting is not a violation of the TOS, unless used to STEAL someone else's work or intellectual property.

 

I thank you all for any  help or advice You may have.

 

Prof. Grey

Another computer illiterate.

---

Even if you don't 'misuse' it, use of a copybot enabled viewer to access SL is a bannable offense.

Except for one idiot, I doubt any one will post here how to do it, and if they did the posts would more than likely be removed.

Also be aware that most (if not all) the copybot viewers you may find will probably contain other exploits you do not want to mess with that can and will jeopardize your own account.

Bottom line, you will need to have the original content creator download the content themselves and then transfer to you outside of SL.

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

My understanding of the TOS is that you can only download items you are the sole creator of.  So even though you may have the permission of the sole creator you cannot do the download while complying with the TOS.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:

My understanding of the TOS is that you can only download items you are the sole creator of.  So even though you may have the permission of the sole creator you cannot do the download while complying with the TOS.

---

1. You must not use or provide any functionality that Linden Lab’s viewers do not have for exporting content from Second Life unless the functionality verifies that the content to be exported was created by the Second Life user who is using the Third-Party Viewer. Specifically, before allowing the user to export the content, the Third-Party Viewer must verify that the Second Life creator name for each and every content component to be exported, including each and every primitive or other content type, is the same as the Second Life name of the Third-Party Viewer user. This must be done for all content in Second Life, including content that may be set to "full permissions.     (my bolding)

http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php#priv2

 

 

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:

My understanding of the TOS is that you can only download items you are the sole creator of.  So even though you may have the permission of the sole creator you cannot do the download while complying with the TOS.

---

1. You must not use
   or provide any functionality that Linden Lab’s viewers do not have for exporting content from Second Life unless the functionality verifies that the content to be exported was created by the Second Life user who is using the Third-Party Viewer.
   Specifically, before allowing the user to export the content, the Third-Party Viewer must verify that the Second Life creator name for each and every content component to be exported, including each and every primitive or other content type, is the same as the Second Life name of the Third-Party Viewer user. This must be done for all content in Second Life, including content that may be set to "full permissions.     (my bolding)

http://secondlife.com/corporate/tpv.php#priv2

 

 

---

Yes.  I'd forgetten some details.  Now I remember running into the situation where I couldn't export items I had created myself using multiple different second  life names. 

[Perrie Juran]

My partner and I own a sim, where we have made 2 open areas for the public to enjoy.

We have a lower land area that is like a park with lots of places to sit and talk and or dance. We also have an upper track area for riders to enjoy modeled after Route 66, circa 1960's style.

We ask for no money, there's some tip jars around only because some of the biker clubs requested we put them out for use when they do rides there. Nor do we have any reason to attract "traffic".

All that being said, I am not here to be your babysitter. Nor am I online 24/7 to be the hall monitor. If you are being harassed or greifed there is a handy dandy tool built into every viewer ususally under the "HELP" tab called "Report Abuse". You as an active avatar in SL need to learn how to use it. I am paying close to $300 usd a month to LL for such services, and I think we owe nothing more to the avatar using our sim, to assume that we do is pretty much taking advantage of our good nature and willingness to share our sim.

If we need to set out signs "Use at your own risk" I guess so be it, please let us know.

[BrianL61 Landar]

I knew I would get sound advice, thank you all, I was uncertain , Wiki said that the act of copybotting was not a violation of the TOS , I think the a update might be in order, even thou technicaly it is not (for the creator) under any other conditions it most certainly is, this is truely sad All of the items Created over the years by Aley's different identities have been made with GNU open source licensing.

 

Sl needs to create a download method for creators to use for their own content.

 

Once again my friends Thank you.

Prof. Grey

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

BrianL61 Landar wrote:

I knew I would get sound advice, thank you all, I was uncertain ,

Wiki said that the act of copybotting was not a violation of the TOS

, I think the a update might be in order, even thou technicaly it is not (for the creator) under any other conditions it most certainly is, this is truely sad All of the items Created over the years by Aley's different identities have been made with GNU open source licensing.

 

Sl needs to create a download method for creators to use for their own content.

 

Once again my friends Thank you.

Prof. Grey

 

 

---

Not sure where in the Wiki it says that with out the caveat that it is your own creations.

 

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

BrianL61 Landar wrote:

I knew I would get sound advice, thank you all, I was uncertain ,

Wiki said that the act of copybotting was not a violation of the TOS

, I think the a update might be in order, even thou technicaly it is not (for the creator) under any other conditions it most certainly is, this is truely sad All of the items Created over the years by Aley's different identities have been made with GNU open source licensing.

 

Sl needs to create a download method for creators to use for their own content.

 

Once again my friends Thank you.

Prof. Grey

 

 

---

Not sure where in the Wiki it says that with out the caveat that it is your own creations.

 

---

I'd like to see that as well.  Until about 2 1/2 years ago it was permissible to download items one owned that were full perms, whoever the original creator was.  Then LL changed that (about the same time as the TPV policy which indicated approved TPVs).  The change was that only items that are created 100% by the person doing the downloading; including all textures, animations, etc.

Interestingly, that change began the upswing in the population of IW.  It had existed for two years prior to that change in the LL TOS and the population was something like 25 (if that many).  When this TOS change was announced, many merchants uploaded their creations prior to the deadline and either moved to IW entirely because they did not agree with the new policy or set up businesses in IW as well as SL in case something happened to SL.  The population of IW rose to around 2,000 the first month iirc.  The numbers might be slightly off.  The grid kept going down because it wasn't used to that many people logged in. 

The reason I know all this is that I was one of those merchants who was going to set up a shop in IW in addition to the one I had in SL; plus, IW at that time resembled SL in about 2006 and I thought it would be fun to be a "pioneer."  I chatted at length with the founder of IW as well as two of the original residents.  I didn't remain in IW long for a variety of reasons, but do know this bit of history.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

BrianL61 Landar wrote:

I knew I would get sound advice, thank you all, I was uncertain ,

Wiki said that the act of copybotting was not a violation of the TOS

, I think the a update might be in order, even thou technicaly it is not (for the creator) under any other conditions it most certainly is, this is truely sad All of the items Created over the years by Aley's different identities have been made with GNU open source licensing.

 

Sl needs to create a download method for creators to use for their own content.

 

Once again my friends Thank you.

Prof. Grey

 

 

---

Not sure where in the Wiki it says that with out the caveat that it is your own creations.

 

---

I'd like to see that as well.  Until about 2 1/2 years ago it was permissible to download items one owned that were full perms, whoever the original creator was.  Then LL changed that (about the same time as the TPV policy which indicated approved TPVs).  The change was that

only

items that are created 100% by the person doing the downloading; including all textures, animations, etc.

Interestingly, that change began the upswing in the population of IW.  It had existed for two years prior to that change in the LL TOS and the population was something like 25 (if that many).  When this TOS change was announced, many merchants uploaded their creations prior to the deadline and either moved to IW entirely because they did not agree with the new policy or set up businesses in IW as well as SL in case something happened to SL.  The population of IW rose to around 2,000 the first month iirc.  The numbers might be slightly off.  The grid kept going down because it wasn't used to that many people logged in. 

The reason I know all this is that I was one of those merchants who was going to set up a shop in IW in addition to the one I had in SL; plus, IW at that time resembled SL in about 2006 and I thought it would be fun to be a "pioneer."  I chatted at length with the founder of IW as well as two of the original residents.  I didn't remain in IW long for a variety of reasons, but do know this bit of history.

 

 

---

I remember all that flap.

The rule, even though it may cause trouble for some, does make sense.  Just because something is full perm does not mean it has an unrestricted license.

[Jennifer Boyle]

Does anyone know why LL restricted export of full-perm items?  Before the change, it was understood that releasing something full-perm granted rights to use it inside and outside SL.  The change just removed the possibility of a non-creator using it outside SL, even with the creator's permission.  Why would anyone consider that necessary or desirable?

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

BrianL61 Landar wrote:

I knew I would get sound advice, thank you all, I was uncertain ,

Wiki said that the act of copybotting was not a violation of the TOS

, I think the a update might be in order, even thou technicaly it is not (for the creator) under any other conditions it most certainly is, this is truely sad All of the items Created over the years by Aley's different identities have been made with GNU open source licensing.

 

Sl needs to create a download method for creators to use for their own content.

 

Once again my friends Thank you.

Prof. Grey

 

 

---

Not sure where in the Wiki it says that with out the caveat that it is your own creations.

 

---

I'd like to see that as well.  Until about 2 1/2 years ago it was permissible to download items one owned that were full perms, whoever the original creator was.  Then LL changed that (about the same time as the TPV policy which indicated approved TPVs).  The change was that

only

items that are created 100% by the person doing the downloading; including all textures, animations, etc.

Interestingly, that change began the upswing in the population of IW.  It had existed for two years prior to that change in the LL TOS and the population was something like 25 (if that many).  When this TOS change was announced, many merchants uploaded their creations prior to the deadline and either moved to IW entirely because they did not agree with the new policy or set up businesses in IW as well as SL in case something happened to SL.  The population of IW rose to around 2,000 the first month iirc.  The numbers might be slightly off.  The grid kept going down because it wasn't used to that many people logged in. 

The reason I know all this is that I was one of those merchants who was going to set up a shop in IW in addition to the one I had in SL; plus, IW at that time resembled SL in about 2006 and I thought it would be fun to be a "pioneer."  I chatted at length with the founder of IW as well as two of the original residents.  I didn't remain in IW long for a variety of reasons, but do know this bit of history.

 

 

---

I remember all that flap.

The rule, even though it may cause trouble for some, does make sense.  Just because something is full perm does not mean it has an unrestricted license.

---

I agree.  The main thing content creators were up in arms about with the change is that previously they could save their work, including purchased textures, etc., to their HD using a program called Second Inventory (formerly Stored Inventory).  Some merchants were in opposition to the change to the point that they left SL entirely and IW was very similar to SL...well a 2006 version of SL.

[Qie Niangao]

---

Jennifer Boyle wrote:

Does anyone know why LL restricted export of full-perm items?  Before the change, it was understood that

releasing something full-perm granted rights to use it inside and outside SL

.  The change just removed the possibility of a non-creator using it outside SL, 

even with the creator's permission

.  Why would anyone consider that necessary or desirable.

---

No, it never meant that, and such an understanding would be very much mistaken. I've released things full perm and I'd very much object to them being on any other grid. (In contrast, things that I've released into the public domain can be used anywhere in any way.)

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Jennifer Boyle wrote:

Does anyone know why LL restricted export of full-perm items?  Before the change, it was understood that releasing something full-perm granted rights to use it inside and outside SL.  The change just removed the possibility of a non-creator using it outside SL, 

even with the creator's permission

.  Why would anyone consider that necessary or desirable.

---

As to why LL made the change...no clue.  As far as full perm items automatically  being permissible for the purchaser to use outside of SL - not true; in fact, many creators of textures (and probably other building elements, I'm just most familiar with purchased textures) now include in their licenses if their items are to be used in SL only or can be used on other grids and some even specify the particular grids.

When I was setting up a small store in IW, I contacted each of the creators of purchased textures asking if I could use them in IW.  At that time, with SL merchants going to IW being so new, 99% of the merchants I asked said no, some giving the reason that once their work left SL they would have no control over it.  Only one merchant said I could with the caveat of not selling the textures individually, which is common for said licenses, but if she decided to set up shop in IW then I could not use the textures.

[ImaTest1488314069]

---

Jennifer Boyle wrote:

Does anyone know why LL restricted export of full-perm items?

 Before the change, it was understood that releasing something full-perm granted rights to use it inside and outside SL.

 The change just removed the possibility of a non-creator using it outside SL, 

even with the creator's permission

.  Why would anyone consider that necessary or desirable?

---

I don't know where you got that statement from, but that was not the general understanding, by a long shot. It never has been, and never will be. In fact the only people I've ever really encountered that thought this, were people who believe full perm means 100% unrestricted license to do whatever they want with said asset, no matter what.

[BrianL61 Landar]

I read some more on wiki and found the caveat  further on in the entry, But the point here is that Aley (AKA Arcadia Asylum & Aley Aria) wants these items  on the other grids, she also produces all her Items"under The GL GNU Opensource Licensing". and has granted full permission for them to be exported as opensource freebies.

 

I can understand the reasons behind the export restrictions that SL & LL have put in place, imagine all the hard work you do to create content as an opensource freebie just to have some one Export it to other grids and sell it as his or her own creation,  when I first visited IW i found a ton of textures that were very reconizeable, where these the work of SL creators ? or where these the original content creator on IW under a different avatar name ? very hard to tell.

even today we at the Arcadia Asylum Libraries are still finding people selling her items old and new and the same folks that buy them eventualy find us and all the free content we answer the questions about this the baest we can and advise them to approach the seller s and demand a refund and file the usual AR.

 

Long and short of this whole thing is that i have come to understand thanks to all of you that if this is to happen Aley will have to down load the items her self. d-loading the textures and sculpt maps is not an option due to the shear volume she has produced "Several Thousand" according to her and from the volume of work she turns out 3 weeks from concept to beta testing in world I have no reason not to believe her.

 

Thank you all again for the sound advice and input.

Prof. Grey

[ImaTest1488314069]

---

BrianL61 Landar wrote:

 

 

Long and short of this whole thing is that i have come to understand thanks to all of you that if this is to happen Aley will have to down load the items her self. d-loading the textures and sculpt maps is not an option due to the shear volume she has produced "Several Thousand" according to her and from the volume of work she turns out 3 weeks from concept to beta testing in world I have no reason not to believe her.

 

Thank you all again for the sound advice and input.

Prof. Grey

---

If she created all of the items herself, she wouldn't have to download anything. All she would have to do is give you the assets outside of sl to use, with whatever permissions she wants to allow. So, the only work it would require, is her sending those assets to you(email, placing them on a site for file sharing, or some such). The items, aka assets, are already downloaded into sl. Though that bit really has no relevance if you are wanting to export them out, as they can be made available without the need for an export quite easily. Even with several thousand, or more, it could be done, if someone wanted to. That's how a lot of people who use GNU even find those assets to begin with, outside of sl.

This is why I don't see a problem with the policy. Because it does not in any way prevent someone who wants others to be able to use their assets full perm, wherever(or even restricted to a specific set of worlds, environments, uses, etc.). Yet it still gives creators a leg to stand on when it comes to content they've created and others being "permitted" to download those assets for any use they choose. I use quotes because no policy could, obviously, prevent copying of assets entirely. It's a cover your own ass sort of policy on the part of the lab.

 

[Suspiria Finucane]

---

Jennifer Boyle wrote:

Does anyone know why LL restricted export of full-perm items?

---

It had a lot to do with maintaining the creator name (rights) after the download. From my understanding a majority if not all the programs for exporting erased the creator’s name. Upon uploading, the asset used the up loaders name.

[Melita Magic]

I would just ask them to do it, with their own stuff.

Simple solution is simple.