Hosts in SL (rock) clubs

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Alobar Valeska wrote:

 No club would survive without those efforts.

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I realize that you may feel a year or so is survival, however, I would venture to say that 99% of the clubs created in SL haven't survived the almost 7 years I've been in SL and there may be a few that have survived 10 years.

IMO clubs are a dream of some to get rich quick without realizing that it is actually a business. There's a reason why 95% of business owners fail in the first 2 years. I'm sure the attrition rate in SL is even higher.

[Alobar Valeska]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Just another reason that clubs that think they are doing DJ's favors letting them work there are full of it. The club would have to pay for all that if they didn't have DJ's.

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And what would a DJ have to pay for if it wasn't for the clubs that invite them to play there? Tier, building, tip jars, shoutcast board, scheduiing, hosts, managers, advertising, etc.?

Get over your sycophantic DJ worship and realize that, as I said before, this is a symbiotic relationship. DJs who think that they're doing the world a favor by their presence are no less obnoxious and counterproductive than club owners that think that they're doing the world a favor by hiring DJs. This is not about DJs vs. hosts vs. club owners. This is about everyone coming together to work to provide a positive experience to everyone involved. Attempting to drive a wedge between the people that ought to be working together to do that is not helpful.

[Alobar Valeska]

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Suspiria Finucane wrote:

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Alobar Valeska wrote:

 No club would survive without those efforts.

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I realize that you may feel a year or so is survival, however, I would venture to say that 99% of the clubs created in SL haven't survived the almost 7 years I've been in SL and there may be a few that have survived 10 years.

IMO clubs are a dream of some to get rich quick without realizing that it is actually a business. There's a reason why 95% of business owners fail in the first 2 years. I'm sure the attrition rate in SL is even higher.

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I'm pushing 4 years in my case, but to me it's not about the money (if it were, I'd qualify as the biggest idiot in the history of business.) It's about the music, and the friends you make, and the folks who enjoy the experience. 

ETA: And forgive me, if I don't bow to the 2 1/2 years earlier that you made it to SL before me. I do realize the importance of that and have the appropriate degree of rez date envy.

[Malanya]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

Aren't dj's expected to provide all their own stuff, and streams, don't they cost?

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I know thiis has been answered more than once already, but yes.

The music offered is the DJ's whole reason for doing what he or she does, and the good ones know everything about the music they play. That's what make the experience so much fun. Hear a song, mention in Local that the bass is really good and learn from the DJ that the bass player was a stand-in for that recording: his normal gig was with Pink Floyd. Or maybe make a reference to a song you were reminded of and hear it three songs later, because the DJ was paying attention to Local.

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True, I never really thought of it that way but you are right, when the dj is not just throwing out generic lines, it makes you feel more connected.

 

[Malanya]

Thanks, I really didnt' know what SAM and virtual dj did. There are many dj's in sl and most of them do nothing for me, meaning they don't have the personality to entertain while playing. I think many rely on the host for that and again, I haven't been much impressed with many of them either.  Yes, many people go the "cheap" route and it's quite unethical and I do think that many like to be dj's for some kind of "OMG you're a dj" and I really don't get that lol.

There are dj's I have followed to different venues because they are natural at their craft and it's fun and entertaining to be where they are.

[Dillon Levenque]

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Alobar Valeska wrote:

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

When the club—instead of providing its own tip jars—lets its entertainers put out their own tip jars, tips to entertainers get responses from the person tipped. Real clubs with real entertainers tend to do that.

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There's no reason a DJ or host can't or shouldn't respond to a tip, regardless of who owns the tip jar. Surprisingly enough, I guess to you, tip jars let the person who's logged into them know who tipped them.  Real people with real knowledge tend to understand that.

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Oh, I quite understand that. You seem to be one of those people who think those who have differing opinions are stupid or uneducated. Your shows must be a delight.

I prefer clubs that make it clear the venue gets no percentage of the entertainer's tips by letting said entertainers place their own tip jars. That way I can tip the entertainer for the entertainment and the venue for providing it. I have also noticed that clubs that do it differently often get less talented entertainers.

[Perrie Juran]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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Alobar Valeska wrote:

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

When the club—instead of providing its own tip jars—lets its entertainers put out their own tip jars, tips to entertainers get responses from the person tipped. Real clubs with real entertainers tend to do that.

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There's no reason a DJ or host can't or shouldn't respond to a tip, regardless of who owns the tip jar. Surprisingly enough, I guess to you, tip jars let the person who's logged into them know who tipped them.  Real people with real knowledge tend to understand that.

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Oh, I quite understand that. You seem to be one of those people who think those who have differing opinions are stupid or uneducated. Your shows must be a delight.

I prefer clubs that make it clear the venue gets no percentage of the entertainer's tips by letting said entertainers place their own tip jars. That way I can tip the entertainer for the entertainment and the venue for providing it. I have also noticed that clubs that do it differently often get less talented entertainers.

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At Clubs where I am uncertain I have payed the DJ or Performer  directly.

Interestingly, I have had a few ask me not to stating the Venue should get a share for providing the location.

I tip Venues separately.  I consider it my right to determine who gets what.

And yes I know, some Venue owners could say it is their right to determine what percentage of the tip should be theirs for providing the venue.

[Crim Mip]

I could probably make the same rant about lazy ass DJ's who set up their playlist in advance, park on the DJ booth poseball, don't take requests and don't say a word their entire set (in stream or in chat) but probably are just minimizing their windows and doing other stuff.

Seriously, unless you are mixing music on the fly, there is no real need for a separate 'host'. Do the job yourself and then you won't be splitting the tips with some parasite who could be replaced by scripted bot. Of course many clubs won't let you do this as the owners are more interested in having their no-talent friends earn some easy L's. Besides, if the club has anything going for it, it has regulars who will greet newcomers as a matter of course. Once again no need for a host.

I get invited fairly regularly to some new club that just opened. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict the 99% that won't last 3 months. Using a premade club off the marketplace?....gone. only managed to get 3 people on the dancefloor for your opening night?.....gone. Playing the same tired techno and dubstep that every other trying to be hip club is playing?....gone!

There are so many basic 'clubs' at this point that unless you have a seriously new concept and a staff who will actively advertise and pull people in to build a core crowd, you might as well save your time and L's. Build something with a new theme and pick a genre of music that not everyone else is playing. Build something new and unique for a setting. Heck, build a new unique setting each week or two. There's something nobody is doing. How about instead of a host, you hire somebody to set up and control your lighting effects (you do have some of those right) on the fly instead of having them in set to repeat or random effects loop? And I mean hire as in you pay them or at least guarantee a minimum if they don't get the tips from the audience (which by the way should be done with your dancers and DJ as well if you want really good ones to apply.)

[Crim Mip]

I appreciate a DJ who puts forth some effort, but those who continuously talk over the music or spend 5 minutes giving the entire damn history for each song before playing it drive me insane. The music should always be the focus. The DJ is there to enhance the experience where they can without intruding on it.

[Malanya]

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Crim Mip wrote:

I appreciate a DJ who puts forth some effort, but those who continuously talk over the music or spend 5 minutes giving the entire damn history for each song before playing it drive me insane. The music should always be the focus. The DJ is there to enhance the experience where they can without intruding on it.

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I am not a fan of someone who talks so long, just someone, as Dillon pointed out, interacts with crowd and talking a moment about a song makes it that it's not just some random play.

[Alobar Valeska]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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Oh, I quite understand that. You seem to be one of those people who think those who have differing opinions are stupid or uneducated. Your shows must be a delight.

I prefer clubs that make it clear the venue gets no percentage of the entertainer's tips by letting said entertainers place their own tip jars. That way I can tip the entertainer for the entertainment and the venue for providing it. I have also noticed that clubs that do it differently often get less talented entertainers.

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I never cease to be amazed at the trivial things people obsess about and the conspiracy theories they develop around those things. If a DJ or host agrees to a percentage cut with the club (which again, I don't take - they get 100% at my club), what business is it of yours? Why on earth would you even think about it, let alone care? 

The tip jars I use give the performer multiple options for notifications of tips, including a popup dialog box that makes it almost impossible to miss a tip and fail to respond appropriately. They're integrated into the overall decor of the club, which I think looks better. Having a consistent placement of tip jars reduces the number of "where's your tip jar?" questions by regulars and return visitors. Tips are recorded in a database so I can track history and trends, and produce pretty charts and graphs, which I enjoy looking at. And I can take a look on the web and see how a performer is doing tip-wise at any given moment, and compensate for that out of my own pocket. 

Regarding the delight of my shows, I think some folks find them delightful, others mediocre, and still others probably hate them. Probably like most DJs. You can't please everyone.

[Crim Mip]

I think it depends on the club. Beyond a certain point talking over the music gets to be annoying. If you have a good set going and people are reacting well to it, do your interactions in general chat.

When I DJ, I do prepare a song queue in advance with the expectation that I'll get requests to add to it, but am prepared if I don't get those. As for following the club or event theme, I usually plan to fill about half to 3/4ths of the time with in-theme music if at all possible.

I ask that requests be in IM's to make keeping track of who requested what easier and also easier to ask if they want to dedicate the request to somebody (many won't realize they can do that if you don't ask them.)

I remember the regulars and if I know they have a favorite band or two, I'll work in a song (not the same one each time) by those bands if possible.

Oh and I mostly DJ because it's fun. A lot of the new bands and music styles I've come to enjoy are from hunting down requests from the audience.

Some things I just consider basic professionalism:

Never mention tips for yourself, your tip jar out is all the mention needed. I don't consider it unethical to give a club employee some L's to seed the tip jar with to be unethical. If people see the jar has already been tipped, they are more likely to.

If you want to mention the club tipjar, and host (if they are doing it well) once in a two hour set is plenty.

If you're the DJ, you don't join the event contest if there is one, you don't join the sploder (unless you feel like seeding it with a decent prize), you don't play trivia. In short, if there are prizes being out, you don't try for them.

If there is a calendar of future events, always mention the next one or two on stream when closing out your set.

If the club doesn't automatically take a percentage of your tips, tip them voluntarily 10-20%. If you have a host that actually did their job well, a tip there is also appropriate.

 

 

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Alobar Valeska wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

Aren't dj's expected to provide all their own stuff, and streams, don't they cost?

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I expect DJs to have their own streams.

 A 50 person stream costs around 1500 lindens a month

. Beyond that, a DJ would have to have their own "stuff" ... otherwise, they couldn't really call themself a DJ.

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No it doesn't, lol. Streams are getting cheaper and cheaper in sl. They're quite easy to come by at much lower rates than they've ever been before.

[Paul Hexem]

Here's an interesting thing to add to the conversation.

A while back I contacted BMI (http://www.bmi.com/) about paying royalties as a Second Life DJ. I linked SL to 'em, told 'em what goes on, and I was told in the reply that the land owner where the music is being played is required to pay the royalties.

To this day I wonder if the reply was incorrect.

[Crim Mip]

I consider not having at least a starting playlist to be unprofessional and unprepared. Then once you get a read on the crowd, it's generally pretty easy to pick on the fly.

Are you deriding the use of SAM (glitchy as hell for me) or the fact many pirate it? I don't see that the streaming software one uses is of any concern of the the DJ knows how to work it.

Guess what? I don't consider myself to have a great voice on the mic. I'm not trained as a professional radio announcer or DJ RL so I do the best I can. If I were trained, I wouldn't be wasting my time in SL where even the best night of tips amounts to little more than pocket change. Most do it for fun, not for the tips. If you want somebody with professional skills, pay them a professional amount for their time. Most club owners won't even guarantee a minimum fee they pay if their patrons are stingy on the tips.

I agree it's good to screen requests whenever possible. It doesn't take a very long listen to know if it's something that fits in to one's set. Being able to gacefully decline a request is a needed skill. Oh and yes I do keep track of those who make inappropriate requests.

I agree about the dancers. It takes far more than just adding strip poles around the dance floor to make a good strip club. Most places all you'll get are pose campers who will be ignored by the patrons as they low class decor they are.

[Crim Mip]

Some do. Most established clubs have their own stream servers. The costs the DJ covers are the equipment (if they bother with a professional mic and DJ controller), the software which can be anywhere from free to $400, and the music which can be anything from free to the cost of the Itune version I suppose. Since there are zero DJ's or clubs actually paying the legally required ASCAP fees for public performance of licenced music, those costs really don't come into it.

[Crim Mip]

Sam, Virtual DJ, Mixxx, etc are the software the DJ has on their system that handles streaming the music to the stream server which then feeds it to the listeners in SL. They also handle the mixing of mic input into the stream so the DJ can talk on air. While it's possible to set up, most DJ's who use something like Winamp with a Shoutcast plug-in don't have that capablility. One thing to keep in mind is that there is usually around a 20-30 second delay from when the DJ's music starts that process to when it's actually heard inworld, the same goes for voice on the stream.

[Crim Mip]

You are living in a fantasyland if you think there are very many DJ's actually shelling out all that cash just so they can earn a pittance (and it's a pittance in ANY club) to stream music into SL. A good professional DJ with top equipment isn't sitting in second life. They are out earning thousands of dollars in RL cash rather than thousands of L's.

[Alobar Valeska]

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ImaTest wrote:

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Alobar Valeska wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

Aren't dj's expected to provide all their own stuff, and streams, don't they cost?

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I expect DJs to have their own streams.

 A 50 person stream costs around 1500 lindens a month

. Beyond that, a DJ would have to have their own "stuff" ... otherwise, they couldn't really call themself a DJ.

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No it doesn't, lol. Streams are getting cheaper and cheaper in sl. They're quite easy to come by at much lower rates than they've ever been before.

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Okay, if the word "around" isn't vague enough for you, change it to "up to".

[Dillon Levenque]

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Malanya wrote:

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Crim Mip wrote:

I appreciate a DJ who puts forth some effort, but those who continuously talk over the music or spend 5 minutes giving the entire damn history for each song before playing it drive me insane. The music should always be the focus. The DJ is there to enhance the experience where they can without intruding on it.

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I am not a fan of someone who talks so long, just someone, as Dillon pointed out, interacts with crowd and talking a moment about a song makes it that it's not just some random play.

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My comments had to do with things DJ's said in Local Chat, not on mic. Given a choice, I'd prefer no microphone for DJ's, just because using chat lets the DJ and everyone else interact as much as they want without stepping on the music. There are plenty of exceptions, of course. I remember a St. Patrick's Day party a couple years back at the Cartel hangout, DJ'd by Mags Indigo: her on mic commentary just made that show.

I of course agree with your 'interact' comment, though. To me that's the whole reason I am there. If all I wanted was to listen to music and/or someone talking about same, I'd just turn on the radio.

[Malanya]

ooh sorry Dillon I thought you meant talking on the mic!

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Crim Mip wrote:

You are living in a fantasyland if you think there are very many DJ's actually shelling out all that cash just so they can earn a pittance (and it's a pittance in ANY club) to stream music into SL. A good professional DJ with top equipment isn't sitting in second life. They are out earning thousands of dollars in RL cash rather than thousands of L's.

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Just because someone is a professional DJ in rl does not mean they won't also do gigs in sl. I have, I know at least a few other professional DJs who have, or do, as well. That doesn't mean we're using what we do make from a gig as an actual income, though. I don't know of any actual professional DJ that makes their entire rl and sl income, from sl gigs. It's not impossible, I'm sure, I just don't know any.

I still DJ in rl, but it's not my primary source of income. I've also still done gigs in sl, again, not my primary source of income. You can still be quite professional, make very little to nothing at a gig, and enjoy it. I do it in sl because it's fun. I've even done rl gigs without being paid, because I enjoy doing it. I can do this because it's not my primary income. I am still very much a DJ with all the proper licensing, equipment, and intelligence..aka, a professional.

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Alobar Valeska wrote:

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ImaTest wrote:

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Alobar Valeska wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

Aren't dj's expected to provide all their own stuff, and streams, don't they cost?

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I expect DJs to have their own streams.

 A 50 person stream costs around 1500 lindens a month

. Beyond that, a DJ would have to have their own "stuff" ... otherwise, they couldn't really call themself a DJ.

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No it doesn't, lol. Streams are getting cheaper and cheaper in sl. They're quite easy to come by at much lower rates than they've ever been before.

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Okay, if the word "around" isn't vague enough for you, change it to "up to".

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Sorry I didn't read the around as vague at all, because it suggested that as being the average price. I was simply saying, it's not. That used to be the average area for stream rentals though. It's really only been in the last two years it's taken the dive it has.

[Perrie Juran]

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ImaTest wrote:

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Crim Mip wrote:

You are living in a fantasyland if you think there are very many DJ's actually shelling out all that cash just so they can earn a pittance (and it's a pittance in ANY club) to stream music into SL. A good professional DJ with top equipment isn't sitting in second life. They are out earning thousands of dollars in RL cash rather than thousands of L's.

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Just because someone is a professional DJ in rl does not mean they won't also do gigs in sl. I have, I know at least a few other professional DJs who have, or do, as well. That doesn't mean we're using what we do make from a gig as an actual income, though. I don't know of any actual professional DJ that makes their entire rl and sl income, from sl gigs. It's not impossible, I'm sure, I just don't know any.

I still DJ in rl, but it's not my primary source of income. I've also still done gigs in sl, again, not my primary source of income. You can still be quite professional, make very little to nothing at a gig, and enjoy it. I do it in sl because it's fun. I've even done rl gigs without being paid, because I enjoy doing it. I can do this because it's not my primary income. I am still very much a DJ with all the proper licensing, equipment, and intelligence..aka, a professional.

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I am friends with several DJ's who are retired now in RL. 

They do some of the more popular clubs and have over the years aquired huge libraries. 

A couple of them told me the difference their tips make for them is whether they buy hamburger or they but steak when they go shopping.

Hostesses, dancers, etc, are something I have mixed feelings about.

At a busy venue a good host or hostess is worth her/his pixels in gold.

They can take a lot of weight off the DJ so he can focus on the music, filling song requests, etc by helping new folks and handling other general questions in addition helping the DJ if he misses something in Local Chat.  If they do their job well it is actually hard work and takes a lot of concentration. 

On the other side of this coin, I have seen some who I would rather they just kept their fingers off the keyboard.

[Dillon Levenque]

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Malanya wrote:

ooh sorry Dillon I thought you meant talking on the mic!

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I did mean typing in local, but that doesn't make much of a difference. I have been to gigs with DJ's on mic that added a lot to the experience (I mentioned one). The mic/chat thing is just my personal preference.

I think we both agree that an entertainer (and I do consider DJs entertainers) who finds a way to interact directly with people in the audience is way more fun than one who does not.