Hosts in SL (rock) clubs

[Alicia Sautereau]

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Christin73 wrote:

I host and have for a while. Doesnt matter what genra. The job of a host/ess I see is this. A good host or hostess is there to suport the DJ. That means when people come in you welcome them. In your welcome every once in a while let them know who the DJ is. Promote requests and tipping of the DJ as well as Dancers if there are dancers. When I host I am active in local chat. I am constantly/ every 10 minates promoting either Tipping the DJ or letting people know they take requests. A good host is an active host. Just my expierience.

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Hosts don`t work for the DJ, hosts don`t work for the club and it`s about time that they start to realize it as half of them are the reason why good clubs die, they work for the people.

Not the club owner(s) nor DJ`s force me to leave, but the hosts!

When a host starts spamming gestures, they encurrage visitor to do the same on wich they start to be even more agressive with the spam to remain ontop, sod off with the spam and i do not go to a place to see how many people i can block for a couple of hours in 10 minutes

That is the part where, if i like the dj playing, leave and take the media stream url home as in my opinion this is borderline begging for tips (see my first post) and the reason when i tip, it`s usually higher then the rest of the room does, at your expense.

On the note why it`s more fun when the owner hosts, simple, they care, hosts just want a tip for god knows what... sorry, your cut goes to the dj instead of your gesture spamming fund to buy more...

 

I think i`m done for awhile 

[Alobar Valeska]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Most club owners don't do much to bring people in to the club themselves  They don't pay you but expect you to spam not only your group but everyone you know to get people there (which most people hate), they expect you to put your own money up for contests, and then ,many of them want to take a percentage of what tips you do make, like they are the ones doing you the favor.

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Not sure what kind of clubs you've been visiting, but that statement does not even come close to my reality. Every club I've seen has spent 1000s of lindens to build an inviting space (some more successful than others, but they try), spent 1000s of lindens to buy all the gadgets necessary to make the club "work", have spent countless hours attracting and retaining a thriving club group, spend countless hours recruiting DJs and hosts and dealing with scheduling, take the time to post events in the SL events listing, spend money on advertising, and more. To suggest that clubs "don't do much to bring people into the club" is just silly. No club would survive without those efforts.

In my case, I don't pay DJs or hosts, and when I DJ, I don't expect to be paid. I also don't take a cut (or give a cut) of tips. If a DJ or host has a particularly good night, a donation to the club is appreciated, but not expected. When I DJ outside of my own club, I almost always donate a percentage of my tips back to the club - it's the club, after all, that provided me the opportunity to earn those tips in the first place.

The club is, in fact, doing the DJ and host a favor by providing them a venue to perform in. At the same time, the DJ and host is doing the club a favor by performing there. It's a mutually beneficial and hopefully cooperative relationship. If a DJ has an active fan group, why in the world wouldn't we expect them to notify their members when they play? That's the whole point of a DJ group, isn't it? Personally, I hate the mass conferences and mass tps, so we don't encourage that, but we also don't prohibit it. The DJs and hosts know their friends better than we do.

Djs complaning about hosts, hosts complaining about DJs, DJs and hosts complaining about club owners and managers, owners and managers complaining about hosts and DJs just unnecessary diva drama that, in the end, hurts everyone involved. This is indeed a symbiotic relationship. Everyone involved needs to check their egos at the door (or stick 'em where the sun don't shine) and work together to provide an enjoyable and fun experience to all involved. 

[Paul Hexem]

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Alobar Valeska wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Most club owners don't do much to bring people in to the club themselves  They don't pay you but expect you to spam not only your group but everyone you know to get people there (which most people hate), they expect you to put your own money up for contests, and then ,many of them want to take a percentage of what tips you do make, like they are the ones doing you the favor.

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Not sure what kind of clubs you've been visiting, but that statement does not even come close to my reality. Every club I've seen has spent 1000s of lindens to build an inviting space (some more successful than others, but they try), spent 1000s of lindens to buy all the gadgets necessary to make the club "work", have spent countless hours attracting and retaining a thriving club group, spend countless hours recruiting DJs and hosts and dealing with scheduling, take the time to post events in the SL events listing, spend money on advertising, and more. To suggest that clubs "don't do much to bring people into the club" is just silly. No club would survive without those efforts.

In my case, I don't pay DJs or hosts, and when I DJ, I don't expect to be paid. I also don't take a cut (or give a cut) of tips. If a DJ or host has a particularly good night, a donation to the club is appreciated, but not expected. When I DJ outside of my own club, I almost always donate a percentage of my tips back to the club - it's the club, after all, that provided me the opportunity to earn those tips in the first place.

The club is, in fact, doing the DJ and host a favor by providing them a venue to perform in. At the same time, the DJ and host is doing the club a favor by performing there. It's a mutually beneficial and hopefully cooperative relationship. If a DJ has an active fan group, why in the world wouldn't we expect them to notify their members when they play? That's the whole point of a DJ group, isn't it? Personally, I hate the mass conferences and mass tps, so we don't encourage that, but we also don't prohibit it. The DJs and hosts know their friends better than we do.

Djs complaning about hosts, hosts complaining about DJs, DJs and hosts complaining about club owners and managers, owners and managers complaining about hosts and DJs just unnecessary diva drama that, in the end, hurts everyone involved. This is indeed a symbiotic relationship. Everyone involved needs to check their egos at the door (or stick 'em where the sun don't shine) and work together to provide an enjoyable and fun experience to all involved. 

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That's all fine and dandy, except Amethyst is right. Many club owners buy some land, buy a prefab, fill it with gadgets and sploders and radios, stick a freebie DJ booth up, and expect the crowds to come pouring in.

The last two places that tried to hire me weren't listed in search, didn't list their events, never funded contests, didn't pay the staff, and didn't do anything if staff didn't show up for shifts. I'd often show up for a scheduled DJ set/event to an empty club with the owner's AFK alt there, wait around for 20 minutes, then give up and leave.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I did say most not all, and you very well may be the exception.  My partner (a RL professional DJ) and I work as a team with me hosting for him exclusively.  I have experienced this with many clubs.  My partner is constantly asked to DJ for a club, and some we'll try out doing a set for a few weeks, but end up quitting it because we see no effort on the Owner's part other than putting up the building and buying some equipment. A good many of them don't even show up much at their own clubs regularly. Money isn't the issue as we both have better sources of income and do it because we like it.   But why knock ourselves out when the Owner can't put forth a good effort?   The current business model relies in large part on employees earnings to keep the club afloat, too much IMO.

Over the years I've owned two major 24/7 clubs in SL. I didn't rely on employees to bring in a crowd.  I and my business partners worked very hard doing that.  We PAID our employees an hourly rate, managers a top salary, and we let them keep 100 percent of tips.   All expenses came out of the club budget, not out of employees pockets.  Employees were not allowed to ask for a tip for themselves or any of the other staff nor did they spam their friends.  As a result I had no problem attracting top talent to work there.  When a position came open I had my pick of a lot of pre-screened applicants on a waiting list. Between their pay and their tips our employees made several thousand L's a week working the minimum 3 shifts per week we required. Most worked more.  I actually had to make a rule establishing the maximum number of hours per week they could work so they wouldn't burn out.  I never thought we were doing the employees a favor working there. I expected them to do their jobs well and they did and were rewarded.  It paid off for us too. Both clubs had great attendance and were in fact in the top five every day if not first place for traffic. Our shops were full and provided a good income too.  Both clubs at least broke even every month and made us a profit in the long run.  The first club i sold my interest in, the second one our partnership sold for a very nice RL profit.

So I do know what I am talking about from both an employee and a club owner's perspective.

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Christin73 wrote:

I host and have for a while. Doesnt matter what genra. The job of a host/ess I see is this. A good host or hostess is there to suport the DJ. That means when people come in you welcome them. In your welcome every once in a while let them know who the DJ is. Promote requests and tipping of the DJ as well as Dancers if there are dancers. When I host I am active in local chat.

I am constantly/ every 10 minates promoting either Tipping the DJ

or letting people know they take requests. A good host is an active host. Just my expierience.

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A huge faux pas and something that will likely piss off more than it helps. People don't like begging. Even if the DJ, the club, or whatever is absolutely superb NO ONE likes to be spammed that often with begging for tips. It, in fact, draws the exact opposite response from most people. Sure some might tip, most won't. Begging them that often, is going to make it even less likely they'd tip. Simply because you annoyed the crap out of them. As you can see from this thread(and the tons of others about this topic) most HATE that kind of spam.

As a DJ, I would refuse to work with someone who did that, and have. It lacks tact, and class.

[Malanya]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Bingo.

 

That's why I stopped. I've got the equipment, the software, and I do it in RL. Then I get treated like no mic WinAmp users, or people on 10 dollar Walmart mics using a stolen copy of SAM, and it's annoying.

 

I wouldn't even mind working just for tips, because I enjoy the reactions of people listening. But when your club can't even bring people in and I have to spam my own group, so I'm not getting paid AND I don't have new listeners... Where's the incentive?

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Exactly.  My partner is a RL DJ and he does a set once in a while  for grins at a club that appreciates it.  Most club owners don't do much to bring people in to the club themselves  They don't pay you but expect you to spam not only your group but everyone you know to get people there (which most people hate), they expect you to put your own money up for contests, and then ,many of them want to take a percentage of what tips you do make, like they are the ones doing you the favor.

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I won't tip hosts. I have not come across one who isn't gesturbating the crap out of my screen and begging for tips. I find that so tacky and will actually mute the host. If I like the dj I will surely tip and I usually go to clubs where the dj's I enjoy are at, doesn't necessarily mean I like the club at all. I believe many people follow the dj's they enjoy and that's what brings people to many clubs. You are right a lot of clubs act like they are doing the dj a favor.

[Malanya]

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Alicia Sautereau wrote:

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Christin73 wrote:

I host and have for a while. Doesnt matter what genra. The job of a host/ess I see is this. A good host or hostess is there to suport the DJ. That means when people come in you welcome them. In your welcome every once in a while let them know who the DJ is. Promote requests and tipping of the DJ as well as Dancers if there are dancers. When I host I am active in local chat. I am constantly/ every 10 minates promoting either Tipping the DJ or letting people know they take requests. A good host is an active host. Just my expierience.

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Hosts don`t work for the DJ, hosts don`t work for the club and it`s about time that they start to realize it as half of them are the reason why good clubs die, they work for the 

people

.

Not the club owner(s) nor DJ`s force me to leave, but the hosts!

When a host starts spamming gestures, they encurrage visitor to do the same on wich they start to be even more agressive with the spam to remain ontop, sod off with the spam and i do not go to a place to see how many people i can block for a couple of hours in 10 minutes

That is the part where, if i like the dj playing, leave and take the media stream url home as in my opinion this is borderline begging for tips (see my first post) and the reason when i tip, it`s usually higher then the rest of the room does, at your expense.

On the note why it`s more fun when the owner hosts, simple, they care, hosts just want a tip for god knows what... sorry, your cut goes to the dj instead of your gesture spamming fund to buy more...

 

I think i`m done for awhile 

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yeah, what you said, I don't want to type that much. Hosts are to work for the patrons and any host that begs for tips every ten minutes has no clue how to work a crowd.

[Sy Beck]

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ImaTest wrote:

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Christin73 wrote:

I host and have for a while. Doesnt matter what genra. The job of a host/ess I see is this. A good host or hostess is there to suport the DJ. That means when people come in you welcome them. In your welcome every once in a while let them know who the DJ is. Promote requests and tipping of the DJ as well as Dancers if there are dancers. When I host I am active in local chat.

I am constantly/ every 10 minates promoting either Tipping the DJ

or letting people know they take requests. A good host is an active host. Just my expierience.

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A huge faux pas and something that will likely piss off more than it helps. People don't like begging. Even if the DJ, the club, or whatever is absolutely superb NO ONE likes to be spammed that often with begging for tips. It, in fact, draws the exact opposite response from most people. Sure some might tip, most won't. Begging them to that often, is going to make it even less likely they'd tip. Simply because you annoyed the crap out of them. As you can see from this thread(and the tons of others about this topic) most HATE that kind of spam.

As a DJ, I would refuse to work with someone who did that, and have. It lacks tact, and class.

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THIS^

I tip when my request is played or I see that a host is going the extra mile to do a good job regardless of the crowd; gesturebators get nothing though (please bear this in mind, I'm not alone).  However, I do hate it when I tip a DJ or host to receive the message that I've paid an anonymous club owner who's never there.  I paid to hear my song or the DJ's playlist/genre/style.  Most times your **bleep**ty built sim and club with it's inherent lag is actually a detraction from my experience and is only mitigated by the DJ's music, the host's efforts or the people present.

It's my contention that if it's the right DJ, a good host and an enthusiatic crowd we'd happily enjoy ourselves socially in an empty 25x25 parcel.  Why do you think when it really matters people go off to beautiful sims, with a good stream that has danceballs.  In rl we go to nightclubs because they won't let us dance somewhere nice.  SL nightclub owners are for the most part still anchored irl and have little imagination.

[Alobar Valeska]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

That's all fine and dandy, except Amethyst is right. Many club owners buy some land, buy a prefab, fill it with gadgets and sploders and radios, stick a freebie DJ booth up, and expect the crowds to come pouring in.

The last two places that tried to hire me weren't listed in search, didn't list their events, never funded contests, didn't pay the staff, and didn't do anything if staff didn't show up for shifts. I'd often show up for a scheduled DJ set/event to an empty club with the owner's AFK alt there, wait around for 20 minutes, then give up and leave.

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That's not a club ... that's some bozo with a prefab and gadgets

[Alobar Valeska]

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Sy Beck wrote:

However, I do hate it when I tip a DJ or host to receive the message that I've paid an anonymous club owner who's never there.  I paid to hear my song or the DJ's playlist/genre/style. 

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When the DJ/host is logged into a tip jar that's owned by the club, you'll get the message that you've paid the owner (of the tipjar.) In most cases that I'm aware of, that tip or some percentage is passed right on through to the person you wanted to tip. That's just the way objects work in SL.

[Malanya]

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Christin73 wrote:

I host and have for a while. Doesnt matter what genra. The job of a host/ess I see is this. A good host or hostess is there to suport the DJ. That means when people come in you welcome them. In your welcome every once in a while let them know who the DJ is. Promote requests and tipping of the DJ as well as Dancers if there are dancers. When I host I am active in local chat. I am constantly/ every 10 minates promoting either Tipping the DJ or letting people know they take requests. A good host is an active host. Just my expierience.

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Don't hosts and dj's usually have big a$$ signs to show all of us that can read who they are? That's what I have always seen. A good host doesn't annoy the crap out of people and by having her head up the dj's butt and begging for money is not a person with any creativity with the ability to entertain anyone. The dj has a separate job.

I also agree with Amethyst about dancers being no addition to a club that isn't a strip club. When II see dancers at on a poseball (or sans poseball) with a tip jar in front of them I laugh, oh I laugh, such talent to tip. Nah, not in a million years.

[Dillon Levenque]

When the club—instead of providing its own tip jars—lets its entertainers put out their own tip jars, tips to entertainers get responses from the person tipped. Real clubs with real entertainers tend to do that.

[Malanya]

Aren't dj's expected to provide all their own stuff, and streams, don't they cost?

[Paul Hexem]

Yes.

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Malanya wrote:

Aren't dj's expected to provide all their own stuff, and streams, don't they cost?

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Not everywhere expects it, but any DJ worth a lick will have it.

Streams aren't expensive at all these days. You can easily find a decent stream(decent enough for sl use) for $100L-$200L for 50-100 listeners a month. Yes there are both more expensive and less expensive ones, of varying quality and user/listener countss, but there are a ton of them out there to fit any budget.

Places in sl used to charge a lot more for stream rentals than they do now.

I've only rented a stream from someone else in sl twice. Both for charity gigs shortly after a rl move and long after I'd stopped runing my own server. Because I didn't want to fiddle with setting the system back up at the time for a few hours worth of use.

As for anything else a DJ may need, aside from music, they're all pretty non-essential. I don't do tip jars, I hate them. I prefer direct tipping. Any DJ or host that tells me I can't, doesn't get a tip. I never used one myself and frankly I just don't need them. I'm easy enough to find when working and it's no more difficult to directly pay someone than it is to directly pay an object. But those who do use them can easily make them, free. They could buy them too, but it's not a necessary or essential part.

The music, however, brings an entirely different animal into the mix. 99.9% of the DJs you will find in sl, download their music. I'm not even going to get into the legalities there. But, they certainly aren't paying for it. They also tend to use SAM, Virtual DJ or some other program(yes the majority don't actually pay for their copy, however some do). You won't often find a DJ who doesn't use one of these programs that pretty much does the work for them. There's not really a learning curve to either, they're set up and go, in a way.

So, while it SHOULD cost a DJ a not so small sum to set his or herself up properly, it typically does not. Most have very little to no overhead at all. They might lie and say otherwise, because most wouldn't know they were lying.

[Malanya]

I thought so.

[Malanya]

I asked because I seen an ad in the forum for a dj job and there was a list for all the things the dj needed to have. I honestly have no clue about dj's and what their cost entails. I am sure as you say many do things that aren't ethical as far as their streams and such. I was always under the impression it was a big expense, but that was just passing conversation so nothing to validate it.

I don't know what SAM is or Virtual DJ. Don't they still have to talk on mic, say when they are playing a request (yes I find it annoying when they yap through songs) and I don't like the local chat thank you for the tip either, I appreciate when the dj actually gives you a ty. I didnt' know a dj had to rent out space either.

You would think that a dj or host would like direct tipping lol

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Malanya wrote:

Aren't dj's expected to provide all their own stuff, and streams, don't they cost?

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Absolutely.  Clubs don't provide the music or streams, the DJ's do.  A good professional DJ will have an extensive catalog and a stream with a high bit rate and more listening spots than guests to deliver max quality.  They also have to buy their own legal copy of SAM, equipment like high grade mics and mixers for the best sound.  If they are doing things legally pay a licensing fee for streaming over the internet.  All this adds up and doesn't come cheap but it does come straight from the DJ's pocket.

Just another reason that clubs that think they are doing DJ's favors letting them work there are full of it. The club would have to pay for all that if they didn't have DJ's.

[Dillon Levenque]

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Malanya wrote:

Aren't dj's expected to provide all their own stuff, and streams, don't they cost?

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I know thiis has been answered more than once already, but yes.

The music offered is the DJ's whole reason for doing what he or she does, and the good ones know everything about the music they play. That's what make the experience so much fun. Hear a song, mention in Local that the bass is really good and learn from the DJ that the bass player was a stand-in for that recording: his normal gig was with Pink Floyd. Or maybe make a reference to a song you were reminded of and hear it three songs later, because the DJ was paying attention to Local.

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Malanya wrote:

I asked because I seen an ad in the forum for a dj job and there was a list for all the things the dj needed to have. I honestly have no clue about dj's and what their cost entails. I am sure as you say many do things that aren't ethical as far as their streams and such. I was always under the impression it was a big expense, but that was just passing conversation so nothing to validate it.

I don't know what SAM is or Virtual DJ. Don't they still have to talk on mic, say when they are playing a request (yes I find it annoying when they yap through songs) and I don't like the local chat thank you for the tip either, I appreciate when the dj actually gives you a ty. I didnt' know a dj had to rent out space either.

You would think that a dj or host would like direct tipping lol

 

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It should cost a lot, but the majority of sl DJs don't pay more than mere pennies, if that. Which might explain why I am as cynical of them as I really am.No one can "pull it off" the right way, legally, on the cheap. It's just not possible. So those who don't spend quite a bit, at least the initial investment, are likely not even remotely legal. When you tell people this though, they go all ape crap crazy. Either because "it's just for fun" or because "so and so is an AWESOME DJ!!! like OMG!!!!!" and you've just insulted them. Either way, they're idiots, so I pay them little mind. I just laugh. Sl is no different than rl with this though. In rl you have a lot of back yard DJs as well.

Both SAM and Virtual DJ are two of the most likely programs they'd use to broadcast the music. Yes they should be talking on mic, at least some, but they do that within the program as well. I saw someone mention a DJ or host being in local on voice, to me that too is a HUGE faux pas. Neither should be on voice and if the DJ is talking, it should be through the stream. The renting space thing is for the actual stream, which is hosted on a server somewhere. I guess the easiest way to explain it would be to liken it to our sims. In order to have a sim, you need a server to run it(ie, the servers the lab owns). Streams(music or otherwise) work very similar in that they need a server to run through, in order to exist. It sounds much more complicated than it really is. The fact that it does sound complicated is what makes people think there is such a huge learning curve. There's really not for most sl DJs because they're only in it half assed, if even, to begin with. There can be if you do things by the book, though.

 

[Vaughn Highwater]

I ran a successful webradio station for 6 years and you learn a lot there if you want to do it right. Fist of, you can't do it right without investing a lot of money into licences, equipment and promotion. It's a lot of hard work. On SL many things are much easier and people SEEM to expect less in staff and club quality. That's corret in so far as the average quality of club experience is almost a nonexistant quality. But it's very wrong of club staff to think people wouldn't love to HAVE a better experience as can be clearly seen by all the posts in this thread.

The biggest problem is that, with webradio and SL, it's actually pretty easy to get the basic things together if you leave legality out of the equasion. So everyone does it and few know more about it than some basic settings. I've seen it often enough that owners/managers ask a lot of people they like if they don't wanna try hosting or DJing and then they say "OK, I give it a try". But if you really have to talk someone into doing it you can see and feel it wasn't a wish of their own. They might enjoy it but as soon as people expect more and they have to learn and try out new things it becomes work and they get pissy.
It gets worse when a couple of their friends tell them they are doing good and they believe in it. Friends are the worst critics as they more often than not don't tell you that what you are doing isn't good at all. Then along comes someone who doesn't know you at all and says something negative and people go like "you are rude". Entertainers should have better basic communication skills to understand what is useful criticism and what is someone just being an ass.

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Jinnywitha Cleanslate wrote:

Hosting is a hard job. 

Finding good hosts too is hard.

we can't afford to pay staff

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Succinct and answers the OP.

 

Historically speaking, slave labor doesn’t accomplish the task at hand with enthusiasm nor does it entice others with fulfillment.

 

 

[Alobar Valeska]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

When the club—instead of providing its own tip jars—lets its entertainers put out their own tip jars, tips to entertainers get responses from the person tipped. Real clubs with real entertainers tend to do that.

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There's no reason a DJ or host can't or shouldn't respond to a tip, regardless of who owns the tip jar. Surprisingly enough, I guess to you, tip jars let the person who's logged into them know who tipped them.  Real people with real knowledge tend to understand that.

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Syo Emerald wrote:

If I go to a club, I want to dance. If I want to dance I need music. If I want a voiceconversation I open skype and call a friend. But DJs who are half of their set busy with talking,talking and talking make me roll my eyes.

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Perfect!

[Alobar Valeska]

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Malanya wrote:

Aren't dj's expected to provide all their own stuff, and streams, don't they cost?

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I expect DJs to have their own streams.  A 50 person stream costs around 1500 lindens a month. Beyond that, a DJ would have to have their own "stuff" ... otherwise, they couldn't really call themself a DJ.