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The title I admit isn’t 100% accurate but I was at a slight loss for how to put it.

 A friend of mine had a few issues back in December with her primary account. Namely her bank was showing charges to Second Life that were not of her doing. She of course had her bank stop the charges but then SL locked the account. Second Life claims the charges were valid because the sim the charges were made from was one she frequented. I mean sure that makes sense a hacker needs to teleport out of where they log you in after all to run up a bill. But either way that was their story and they were sticking to it.

Fast forward a months later on a different account (She assumed the first was compromised and not worth trying to retrieve at this point.) Now it seems she got herself into more trouble with charges to second life. This time though was much more interesting. She had amassed a series of charges amounting over $200 us in small increments. Now the funny thing is she didn’t and doesn’t have the bank information on this new account; yet somehow these charges have been made according too linden labs from her ip address and so she is responsible and they have locked her new account as well. The more interesting part is that Linden Labs can’t even pull up any transaction history to prove where this money went if she did buy it. It’s not on her account and there are no outgoing messages that indicate where it might have gone.

Now I would ask how this keeps happening but the fact is there are countless ways to get yourself into these issues sometimes even if you are careful. My concern is I’m at a bit of loss for what she needs to be doing to get this worked out. So far SL is saying their valid and she needs to pay, I can respect that from a business point of view, but I can personally attest that she never made those charges and that these are the result of some form of malicious activity.

 

So my question to you all is what can I do to help her out or what avenues should be looking into? She has tickets open but so far they’re not budging on their stance with this as of yet. We have provided all the information we can thus far to try and make our point but I’d like to maybe see what other options to consider. Thoughts?

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If I were to believe, for one second, that you are actually talking about a friend of yours, I'd tell you that your friend is not being forthright with you about what's really going on.  Since I don't believe that you and your friend are two different people, I can only say that I don't believe that what you are telling yourself or anyone else is necessarily truthful either.

I suggest therapy.

...Dres

 

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I may not have all the information that much I'll give you. It's still a bit back and forth after all between her and linden labs on what they can see, what she can prove. So yes I'll concede there may still be facets I do not have in their entirety.

My post is not per say to flame Linden Labs and their bad way of handling things. I’m sure there is more that goes into these things than I will ever know. What my post is aimed to do is to get advice from the community on if people have run into this before, or heard of something like this and to get advice on actions that could be taken to reach an agreeable situation.

The problem is after all that somehow fraudulent charges were made and she doesn’t feel she should have to pay them and SL says she does. It becomes very he said she said I’m aware; so I’ll reiterate then that my point in even putting this here was to get advice, suggestions or feedback that might help. If you don’t have anything constructive to add aside from being sure I must need therapy then I’ll ask you keep that to yourself.

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Rachael Lazarno wrote:

The title I admit isn’t 100% accurate but I was at a slight loss for how to put it.

 A friend of mine had a few issues back in December with her primary account. Namely her bank was showing charges to Second Life that were not of her doing. She of course had her bank stop the charges but then SL locked the account. Second Life claims the charges were valid because the sim the charges were made from was one she frequented. I mean sure that makes sense a hacker needs to teleport out of where they log you in after all to run up a bill. But either way that was their story and they were sticking to it.

Fast forward a months later on a different account (She assumed the first was compromised and not worth trying to retrieve at this point.) Now it seems she got herself into more trouble with charges to second life. This time though was much more interesting. She had amassed a series of charges amounting over $200 us in small increments. Now the funny thing is she didn’t and doesn’t have the bank information on this new account; yet somehow these charges have been made according too linden labs from her ip address and so she is responsible and they have locked her new account as well. The more interesting part is that Linden Labs can’t even pull up any transaction history to prove where this money went if she did buy it. It’s not on her account and there are no outgoing messages that indicate where it might have gone.

Now I would ask how this keeps happening but the fact is there are countless ways to get yourself into these issues sometimes even if you are careful. My concern is I’m at a bit of loss for what she needs to be doing to get this worked out. So far SL is saying their valid and she needs to pay, I can respect that from a business point of view, but I can personally attest that she never made those charges and that these are the result of some form of malicious activity.

 

So my question to you all is what can I do to help her out or what avenues should be looking into? She has tickets open but so far they’re not budging on their stance with this as of yet. We have provided all the information we can thus far to try and make our point but I’d like to maybe see what other options to consider. Thoughts?


If your friend's 1st account was locked or put on hold then she should not have made a second account. Have you signed into this new account of hers to see if there is no bank info or transaction history? If her 2nd account is not connected to her 1st as an alternate then LL and your friend knows more than you do about this and your friend may not be telling everything to you.

I am sure that LL takes account hijacking pretty serious and they just don't go on the same IP address for taking action because that is certainly not accurate. The avenue she should look into is what she did and come to terms with whatever she did to have this happen. It is so highly unlikely that after a persons account is compromised that a 2nd account they created was compromised too. If she had financial issues with her 1st account why would she NOT want to wait to get a resolution and find out what happened with ere bank account. Sounds very odd to me, I would not just go "oh well my money is gone, moving on to a new account" that's just strange. I can only think your friend isn't being honest and LL has done this for a very good reason.

Why is it always "friends" coming to the forums asking this kind of thing and not the person it actually happened to? Yeah I have an idea..

edit:


 

Rachael Lazarno wrote:

The problem is after all that somehow fraudulent charges were made and she doesn’t feel she should have to pay them and SL says she does. It becomes very he said she said I’m aware


She doesn't feel she has to pay well that's not really a problem, her bank and sl can figure out the truth for her. It's not he said she said.

 

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Rachael Lazarno wrote:

I may not have all the information that much I'll give you. It's still a bit back and forth after all between her and linden labs on what they can see, what she can prove. So yes I'll concede there may still be facets I do not have in their entirety.

My post is not per say to flame Linden Labs and their bad way of handling things. I’m sure there is more that goes into these things than I will ever know. What my post is aimed to do is to get advice from the community on if people have run into this before, or heard of something like this and to get advice on actions that could be taken to reach an agreeable situation.

The problem is after all that somehow fraudulent charges were made and she doesn’t feel she should have to pay them and SL says she does. It becomes very he said she said I’m aware; so I’ll reiterate then that my point in even putting this here was to get advice, suggestions or feedback that
might
help. If you don’t have anything constructive to add aside from being sure I must need therapy then I’ll ask you keep that to yourself.

The replies ARE constructive, just because they are not what you want to hear does not discredit them. Please you got real advice. Maybe you should share the advice with your "friend"

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Rachael Lazarno wrote:

I may not have all the information that much I'll give you. It's still a bit back and forth after all between her and linden labs on what they can see, what she can prove. So yes I'll concede there may still be facets I do not have in their entirety.

My post is not per say to flame Linden Labs and their bad way of handling things. I’m sure there is more that goes into these things than I will ever know. What my post is aimed to do is to get advice from the community on if people have run into this before, or heard of something like this and to get advice on actions that could be taken to reach an agreeable situation.

The problem is after all that somehow fraudulent charges were made and she doesn’t feel she should have to pay them and SL says she does. It becomes very he said she said I’m aware; so I’ll reiterate then that my point in even putting this here was to get advice, suggestions or feedback that
might
help. If you don’t have anything constructive to add aside from being sure I must need therapy then I’ll ask you keep that to yourself.

Oh sorry... you're right.  I jumped to conclusions and for that I profusely apologize.  In which case, my suggestion to you is not to believe everything you hear.

...Dres

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To my knowledge, and I've clarified it may not be gospel at this point, is the first account was locked for valid charges but she was unable to pay it is unable to pay that past due balance. The secnod account and such were ones she had on the back burner not per say new more so as unused I guess is the better way to put it.

 

Now as I understand the TOS they can lock those acounts becasue the first is locked bascilly. My concern though is if the accounts were locked and with no billing info then how are the charges still going through?

 

To answer "Why is it always "friends" coming to the forums asking this kind of thing and not the person it actually happened to? Yeah I have an idea." I simply thought it on post first I guess didn't think that'd matter. Thanks for the feedback though.

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I don`t buy it either, she did something that the friend didn`t tell you.

You know how the saying goes: Fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me.
No way the same thing happens twice with being clueless, this is the first time in 6.5 years that i hear this.

 

On the "no transaction logs", i don`t believe it, did you see the ticket reply from LL with your own 2 eyes?
I`ll throw another question, how long and well do you know your friend? people have been played in here for less

 


Rachael Lazarno wrote:

To my knowledge, and I've clarified it may not be gospel at this point, is the first account was locked for valid charges but she was unable to pay it is unable to pay that past due balance. The secnod account and such were ones she had on the back burner not per say new more so as unused I guess is the better way to put it.

 

Now as I understand the TOS they can lock those acounts becasue the first is locked bascilly. My concern though is if the accounts were locked and with no billing info then how are the charges still going through?

 

To answer "Why is it always "friends" coming to the forums asking this kind of thing and not the person it actually happened to? Yeah I have an idea." I simply thought it on post first I guess didn't think that'd matter. Thanks for the feedback though.

Pay your bills or locked out, getting another account to not pay your bills and be found, well, locked out wich is kind of "duh"

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Rachael Lazarno wrote:

To my knowledge, and I've clarified it may not be gospel at this point, is the first account was locked for valid charges but she was unable to pay it is unable to pay that past due balance. The secnod account and such were ones she had on the back burner not per say new more so as unused I guess is the better way to put it.

 

Now as I understand the TOS they can lock those acounts becasue the first is locked bascilly. My concern though is if the accounts were locked and with no billing info then how are the charges still going through?

 

To answer "
Why is it always "friends" coming to the forums asking this kind of thing and not the person it actually happened to? Yeah I have an idea." I simply thought it on post first I guess didn't think that'd matter. Thanks for the feedback though.

Theft is a serious thing, internet theft is serious and that's what this is. LL knows what's going on trust me. I would stop posting for my friend.

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Alicia Sautereau wrote:

I don`t buy it either, she did something that the friend didn`t tell you.

You know how the saying goes: 
Fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me.

No way the same thing happens twice with being clueless, this is the first time in 6.5 years that i hear this.

 

On the "no transaction logs", i don`t believe it, did you see the ticket reply from LL with your own 2 eyes?

I`ll throw another question, how long and well do you know your friend? people have been played in here for less

 

Rachael Lazarno wrote:

To my knowledge, and I've clarified it may not be gospel at this point, is the first account was locked for valid charges but she was unable to pay it is unable to pay that past due balance. The secnod account and such were ones she had on the back burner not per say new more so as unused I guess is the better way to put it.

 

Now as I understand the TOS they can lock those acounts becasue the first is locked bascilly. My concern though is if the accounts were locked and with no billing info then how are the charges still going through?

 

To answer "Why is it always "friends" coming to the forums asking this kind of thing and not the person it actually happened to? Yeah I have an idea." I simply thought it on post first I guess didn't think that'd matter. Thanks for the feedback though.

Pay your bills or locked out, getting another account to not pay your bills and be found, well, locked out wich is kind of "duh"

Exactly.

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I've already told her it’s something she probably did as well. I can't prove it though to be fair and maybe I'm at fault for trying to give a person the benefit of the doubt.

 I have not seen the ticket reply so it's possible there are missing bits of information.

 My concern, and perhaps it was premature, was trying to stay ahead of the issue and make sure all avenues of resolution have been exhausted from our end is all. You never know after maybe others ran into the same or similar problem.

 

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Rachael Lazarno wrote:

To my knowledge...

You are either the person that knows what's going on or you are not.  We, as fellow residents, can only speculate as to what is really going on by what you tell us.  What you've told us leads me to speculate that you are either an alt of the account that got blocked or are too stupid to realize that you've been lied to.  Either way, your query here is useless.  The account that has the issues with LL has to work those issues out with them... there's nothing more to suggest.

...Dres

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LL, aka, the lab as I often refer to them, does take account hacking extremely seriously. Despite what a few people might tell you, and sometimes I wonder about their mental health, this is one issue wherein the lab does not play around. Primarily because, of course, it can cost them money in the end. So, they aren't necessarily doing so to help anyone but their own selves.

That said, your friend is lying to you. Not only is she just not giving you all the information, she is lying. I have been in the exact position she is in. Well, almost. I, at one time, owed the lab money too. They'll lock your account faster than you think. Which IS why her initial account was locked, she racked up checks her butt can't cash. That wasn't due to fraudulent charges. If it had been, the lab would have found that out. If both her bank and the lab are in agreement that those are her charges, then they are. I'm not typically the type to side with the lab, or any financial institution either. But I know exactly how one can get in over their own head.

Creating a second account was beyond stupid of her. I don't care if you think it's not constructive. She was lucky they didn't lock it before now. When you lose an account, or have one locked, creating another one is actually against the TOS> So, now only does she owe the lab money, now she's breaking TOS. Yet, you still want to defend her. I suppose some might find it commendable of you. I'm not one of those, because it's not. It's nice you want to he;p her, yes, but you're only making excuses for her poor behavior.

Tell your friend to pay her bills, and keep her head above water. If you can't pay bills, don't rack up unnecessary ones. Also, don't start pretending someone else did it. Because, as I said, hacking is actually a pretty serious offense and not one the lab takes lightly. That, of all things, is one they will investigate and not just pretend to. Not only will they investigate but they'll also have you and your financial institution do the same. They will work in conjuction with you both. They will even, if necessary, work with local authorities. So no, the lab did not handle anything bad. They did exactly what they should have done to begin with by locking her account. It's also something they don't even do immediately. There are times they will even let you go 30 or 60 days, without paying before doing so. A grace period isn't guaranteed, but they do seem to offer one. Your friend on the other hand, has terrible money management skills and should probably refrain from bringing, or tying any financial information to sl ever again. It's going to keep happening.

If she wants money for sl, tell her to earn it in sl. If she doesn't tie any rl financial information to sl, no charges can be made(so, another point she's flat out lying to you on, the lab isn't allowed to just charge things without the information being connected to an account, it would be massively illegal). One bonus, without a connected payment info, she can't cash out, either.

But her first step, ought to be paying her bills. Then she can worry about the rest. You, my friend, although your efforts may be commendable *to you, are going to end up looking like a doofus to most for trusting her. She's lying. What she is telling you is NOT how the lab handles these things, or handled her case, by far.

 

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I agree with the others that you are not being told the whole truth or maybe any of it.  What she is telling you is BBS.  There is no way a charge could be made against her account without leaving a trail that LL can investigate.  The ONLY way this could have happened is if she foolishly gave her password to someone, but if that were the case the charges would not be coming from the same IP address unless she has a room mate that did it.  Bottom line is that if you don't protect your account yourself you are liable for the charges.

My first thought when reading this thread is that she is playing you to get you to "pay her bills", if they even exist or give her money.  I've seen it happen  before.  I'd be extremely cautious if I were you and hold tight to your wallet.  It all smells like a con to me because the story is so factually in error.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

My first thought when reading this thread is that she is playing you to get you to "pay her bills"

My first thought was that the OP was the alt of the banned one of which they spoke... does that make me too cynical for redemption?

...Dres *is prepared to either do himself in or learn to live with it*

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First of all, if your so called friends account had been hacked, LL would see that by the IP address that logged in and would know you friend is innocent. Secondly, as far as LL is concerned, it is the IP address that owes the money from the first account, so making a new account only makes her look guilty as if she is running away from it, but LL still knows it is the same person, or at least the same IP address, and locking the second account is the same as closing a unpaiod credit card. I dont believe you "friend" is telling you the whole truth. People that rack up depts and dont pay them will say anything to save face. I suggest you stay out of it and remain neutral. this way you keep a friend and also stop yourself looking like a fool for aiding someone that is treating you like an idiot. 

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

My first thought when reading this thread is that she is playing you to get you to "pay her bills"

My first thought was that the OP was the alt of the banned one of which they spoke... does that make me too cynical for redemption?

...Dres *is prepared to either do himself in or learn to live with it*

 

Absolutely not, that was my second thought :smileytongue:

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if she didnt made those charges, and someone else made them from the same account, is probable that her computer has been hacked, or someone who has access to her computer made them, some users have the password saved in their viewers for easy access, maybe she lives with family members that would have used her account.

the most possible answer i can see is that primarly she works with her bank to get all the info about those transactions, and also see if other transactions have been made to other companies. once the bank assures that the only unconsented transactions has been done to Linden Lab, she can focus in that the hacker is probably another second life user, so its Linden Lab turn to put the other piece of the puzzle, if they dont have records of where the money goes, then she is dealing with a very knowledgable and skilled hacker, or someone in her house is doing it hiding from her.

i suggest that she run an antivirus on her computer if she hasnt done it lately, hackers are increasingly skilled day by day, and they come with new ways to manipulate data specially if money is involved. another thing that she can consider, is to never share a password, specially passwords that can provide access to financial movements.

it seems Linden Lab is doing all it can to find the source of the problem, their results dont detect the hacker so their only choice is to charge your friend. at least at this point, until further investigation is done.

i suggest that she get into an agreement with Linden Lab if the charge is too high to be paid all at once, maybe she can send the money in small monthly payments, if the case is solved in favor of your friend, Linden Lab may return the money so all is not lost.

i hope your friend can solve this in a form that benefits all parties involved, except the hacker.

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I am not in a position to judge if this is true or if we are all being played by this girl and her "friend", but putting all that asside...the first thing your "friend" should have done was to go to your financial institution and dispute the charges from SL. The bank would then have made it so that any charges that came out of your account payable to LL would have been stopped. This would also have stopped the second situation of more charges coming out from another AV. The bank would have then sent it to their fraud department and investigated the charges and your "friend" wouldn't be in this situation at all.

Of course, that's like closing the barn door after the horses have escaped.

:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

If your "friend" hasn't already done so, talk to the bank and have them dispute the charges. I can't think of anything else that can be done right now. Your "friend" may have to pay the charges and get them reimbursed later once this thing is resolved.

Good luck...to you and your "friend"

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Gosh, I take a break from the Forum to go enjoy RL and the things I miss!

 


Rachael Lazarno wrote:

The title I admit isn’t 100%
accurate
honest but I was at a slight loss for how to put it.

 

First off I have corrected that for you.  All you needed to do is state "Looking For Help With A Locked Account."  or even simply, "Friends Account Locked."


Rachael Lazarno wrote:

Second Life claims the charges were valid because the sim the charges were made from was one she frequented. I mean sure that makes sense a hacker needs to teleport out of where they log you in after all to run up a bill.

yet somehow these charges have been made according too linden labs from her ip address and so she is responsible and they have locked her new account as well.

 

Why would a Hacker need to teleport out of where they are in order to start racking up charges? 

Also, Linden Lab sees and looks at a lot more than just IP addresses.  They see MAC address and certain hardware information.   While all of these can be spoofed, a Hacker would HAVE TO HAVE access to her computer in order to know her information.  While possible, it stretches the imagination.

 


Rachael Lazarno wrote:

 

The more interesting part is that Linden Labs can’t even pull up any transaction history to prove where this money went if she did buy it. It’s not on her account and there are no outgoing messages that indicate where it might have gone.



While it is true that we can only view our transaction history going back for 45 days if I recall correctly, Linden Lab would need to keep the history a lot longer for book keeping and audit purposes.  If the information was missing from LL's Servers the security team would be working their asses off on this.  This is no small deal.  With out proof they would have to reverse the charges.  There are just too many red flags here.

 


Rachael Lazarno wrote:

I can personally attest that she never made those charges and that these are the result of some form of malicious activity.

  Thoughts?




Occam's Razor leaves me to conclude one of three possibilities:

1.   You have invented this whole scenario to troll us.

2.   Your friend is not being honest with you about what has really happenned.

3.   If the above highly unlikely scenario happenned the only way for you can "personally attest" is if you are the person in question or you personally know the friend in question in RL and have seen everything stated with your own eyes.

Those are my thoughts.

 

 

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