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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I too don't think it is a difficult issue at all.  Copybotters are liars and thieves period, no matter how they justify it in their heads.  They are the lowest form of pixels there are because unlike someone that steals food to feed their family, there is no moral justification for what they do.

It disgusts me that you think they deserve a balanced article and now makes me wonder what you are about since you won't give a straight answer as to what magazine you are going to publish the article in.
Its a simple question that deserves an answer and a professional journalist would not hesitate in answering it.  Why would a content creator talk you to you at all without knowing this? 

A balanced view of an issue is a long standing tenet of journalism, though some are in favor of it and others aren't, and some think objectivity is impossible. I don't understand why anyone would think responsible journalism is disgusting.

I agree that a balanced view is a long standing tenant of journalism, when the subjects being covered are things such as political or religious opinions or two sides of a civic issue such as if a road should be built through an historic district.  However there are exceptions.  A journalist presenting a self professed criminal's justifications and in the case of most copybotters, advocacy for committing the crime with the same respect as creators
without challenging them or offering editorial comment is not responsible journalism. 

There is a legitimate use for copybot type tools, such as a creator using it to produce replicas of their own work or someone using it to create a copy of a full perm item when that is allowed by the creator.  So a legitimate balanced presentation of views on copybot with one side saying copybotting should banned all together and another side saying it shouldn't due to the fact there are legit uses for it, would be responsible journalism.  However publishing an article giving equal treatment to the view that it is illegal to steal content and the view that it is ok to ignore the law and steal is not.

By your way of thinking it would be ok for a food journalist to publish the cannibal society's prize winning recipe for creating a dish from human flesh along side the beef council's prize winning recipe for beef Wellington. Yes that is an extreme example but by applying your view to an extreme situation you can tell if the view is always right
without
exception.

The OP wrote "I am looking for designers and copybotters to talk to as I want a balanced article." She never said she wasn't going to be challenging them, I can't imagine a journalist not challenging a criminal regarding their motivations.

I didn't say it was my way of thinking, i said it is a longstanding tenet of journalism. In fact, it is in politics and religion that most journalists don't attempt to be objective. Trying to present an unbiased view can lead to the justification of some pretty awful things. However, interviewing a thief regarding why he or she steals (and I would hope, calling the thief on their rationalizations) is not turning a copybotter into Jean Valjean. As for your example regarding the recipes, journalists who are die hard proponents of being objective and unbiased might say there's nothing wrong with that.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:


Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

My impression was that the OP meant coping with copybotters is a difficult issue, not copybotting itself. As for her writing credentials, this is from her profile:

Editor: SL Fierce , Editor AvCON

Feature Writer: Maniera -RL and SL, Moolto,  OI Magazine, Unforgettable, InWorld

Blogger for: Eshi Otawara, Violator, Resun, 7 Deadly Skins

Thank you for the information about the magazines, that at least indicates there's little chance the OP is a troll. It would have been better for the OP to have provided that information, but I suppose I could have learned it by googling or Inworld search had I taken the time.

We shouldn't have had to go seek out additional info.  The OP is the one requesting info.  Perhaps the OP should check out this thread to see what it was so positively received.

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Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

There are content thieves who take great pride in what they do and don't hide it; they speak about it openly (albeit through an alt). They're very arrogant about it and contemptous enough of others that they have no problem with coming forward and saying what they do.

You are referring to a very small minority....and they are idiots.

Certain well known content thieves have been baited and retaliated against quite effectively by a group of SL users in the past. Using alts and masking their IP's did nothing to protect them. I spent over a year sat in a closed channel on IRC frequented by some of SL's most notorious copybotters, and believe me, they don't publicly boast about their exploits any more. In closed circles they spend the majority of their time discussing ways of staying hidden and anonymous. 

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Perrie Juran wrote:


GothGirl Demonia wrote:


Also as I believe I said Earlier, no one is clean, no one is an angel, even your Anti Griefers, and Copy-Bot hunters have dark secrets, and break the TOS in one way or another same as a CopyBotter.

Yes, as I recall in another thread, you confessed to being a hacker yourself.

Being a hacker is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

Definition of HACKER

1: one that hacks

2: a person who is inexperienced or unskilled at a particular activity <a tennis hacker>

3: an expert at programming and solving problems with a computer

4: a person who illegally gains access to and sometimes tampers with information in a computer system

 

Perhaps defining which type of hacker she claims to be might be more beneficial to your cause. :matte-motes-wink:

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Suspiria Finucane wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


GothGirl Demonia wrote:


Also as I believe I said Earlier, no one is clean, no one is an angel, even your Anti Griefers, and Copy-Bot hunters have dark secrets, and break the TOS in one way or another same as a CopyBotter.

Yes, as I recall in another thread, you confessed to being a hacker yourself.

Being a hacker is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

Definition of

1
:
one that hacks

2
:
a person who is inexperienced or unskilled at a particular activity <a tennis
hacker
>

3
:
an expert at programming and solving problems with a computer

4
:
a person who illegally gains access to and sometimes tampers with information in a computer system

 

Perhaps defining which type of hacker she claims to be might be more beneficial to your cause. :matte-motes-wink:

She confessed to unauthorized access to games on Steam.

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I make a lot of very small very silly fullperm freebie items. A real lot. I have found out someone copied someone elses build using my fullperms prim. I show as creator which is mortifying. I was framed.  How can I prove I didnt do it? I filed an abuse report so LL can presumably tell I didnt do it- but dont know how to clear my name. I dont think I can dmca it as they used a prim with my name as creator to copy someones else work, not to copy my work and i dont think a standard sl prim I created is my intellectual property?

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

 

I think we all pretty much know the answers to the first five questions,  the more interesting story would be to get copybotters to talk.

a smart copybotter won't talk as he know he'll get kicked off the grid so fast he can't even say bye to his copybotted items...

And the stupid copybotters had that happen to them long ago...

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Attica Bekkers wrote:

I make a lot of very small very silly fullperm freebie items. A real lot. 
I have found out someone copied someone elses build using my fullperms prim. I show as creator which is mortifying. I was framed.  How can I prove I didnt do it? I filed an abuse report so LL can presumably tell I didnt do it- but dont know how to clear my name. I dont think I can dmca it as they used a prim with my name as creator to copy someones else work, not to copy my work and i dont think a standard sl prim I created is my intellectual property?

LL knows that people build things composed of prims, textures, scripts, etc, created by others.  This is a fairly common practice so I would not worry about getting in trouble with LL over this.

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It's bugging me that there's this thread here, with the word BOT in the title, and I can't get into the discussion at all, because it's about copybots and not yer honest-to-goodness beautiful glorious ordinary bots :(

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Perrie Juran wrote:

LL knows that people build things composed of prims, textures, scripts, etc, created by others.  This is a fairly common practice so I would not worry about getting in trouble with LL over this.

The alien is right. In the past thieves have often set the root prims to creators other than themselves, in fact it is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Allot of content that I had taken down showed some of the more popular megaprim creators such as Research Project and Winter Vetura as the creators. Megaprims could not be copybotted themselves but the prims were freely available to anyone to use full perm. I think this is a non issue.

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Porky Gorky wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

LL knows that people build things composed of prims, textures, scripts, etc, created by others.  This is a fairly common practice so I would not worry about getting in trouble with LL over this.

The alien is right. In the past thieves have often set the root prims to creators other than themselves, in fact it is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Allot of content that I had taken down showed some of the more popular megaprim creators such as Research Project and Winter Vetura as the creators. Megaprims could not be copybotted themselves but the prims were freely available to anyone to use full perm. I think this is a non issue.

It has not been a problem reserved to stolen content.

I have seen in Profiles when tracking down a creator to ask a question, "If you are wondering about 'product X,' I did not make it.  Please contact 'so and so,' they used the stuff I provided to make the product."

In my own home which is "mod," I have identified five different avas named in different parts.  Door scripts by one, window scripts by a second, two different sculpts and the rest of the house by the merchant who sells it.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Porky Gorky wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

LL knows that people build things composed of prims, textures, scripts, etc, created by others.  This is a fairly common practice so I would not worry about getting in trouble with LL over this.

The alien is right. In the past thieves have often set the root prims to creators other than themselves, in fact it is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Allot of content that I had taken down showed some of the more popular megaprim creators such as Research Project and Winter Vetura as the creators. Megaprims could not be copybotted themselves but the prims were freely available to anyone to use full perm. I think this is a non issue.

It has not been a problem reserved to stolen content.

I have seen in Profiles when tracking down a creator to ask a question, "If you are wondering about 'product X,' I did not make it.  Please contact 'so and so,' they used the stuff I provided to make the product."

In my own home which is "mod," I have identified five different avas named in different parts.  Door scripts by one, window scripts by a second, two different sculpts and the rest of the house by the merchant who sells it.

Yes this is one of the major problems in Second Life since 09 I have been given Note-Cards from various people which contain a lot of Full Permissions prims from the creators in Second Life, legally because the prims were full permissions and just a blank cube its legit to have them, or to use them to create as I don't see anything in the Second Life TOS that forbids creating or modfiying something that is full permissions.

However Botters are exploting this to import full builds via right click a full perm prim on ground import.xml select copybotted build and it imports all prims with their name as creator with assets aka textures and such, that is illegal, but there is nothing in place to stop it and many of the merchants I know who have had their prims going around for years full perms, I started out in 09 when I got the first Note-Card with their names and through 2011-2012 I managed to get 3 other NoteCards filled full of more prims from even more merchants.

Heck all you have to do these days is go to a welcome area and ask anyone got the creator spoof note-card and someone will likely give it to you if they dont care about it places like Ahern, Moose Beach, Violet.

However there are other methods of tracking Copy-Bot content even prim spoofed.

1. Download the asset itself and look for avatar name or key information it can be dificult this mainly works on clothing, skins and such botters often make mistakes leading back to them. ( Technically if you own IP rights and created it yourself, I would say you have every right to, but then again there is the TOS.)

2. Look for last owner information under inspect, and do manual tracking inspect content inside of content and such.

3. Look at UUID's on the cube also illegal cant be done with a legit viewer and look for any textures they might have upload themselves to use on it.

4. Look for content scripts, and such created in the content sometimes botters will forget to spoof scripts too.

And finally if you have a botter suspect dont say anything, attempt to find them in world via places they hang out, inspect their avatar for copybot hairs, often they dont bother to change names of prims so if they are wearing hair from X store it will say <StoreName> Hair Name, if its created by someone other than that often its copybot, take snapshots, post to a blog anonymously proof of their botting, Ban them from your store once you have solid evidence, Report to Linden Lab.

OF Course if you want to do this make sure you make a newbie account, heck don't use an illegal viewer, but make a newb account run around with some freebie stolen hairs in talk like you know some smack about copy-bot, and you fit right in just dont turn on media or voice because they can track your viewer information and see you are a spy, then Report all them no good for nothing scum, but don't report them right then so you can keep deep cover its how quite a few of us who have free time and want to have something to do roll.

PROFIT???

Heck after my account was compromised I wouldn't be shocked if someone didn't take my prim or prims to do this with but its why I don't play SL anymore I just keep in tocuh with a few peeps and thats about it nothing left in this rabbit hole.

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Suspiria Finucane wrote:


Dillon Levenque wrote:

 People do copybotting. Copybotting is wrong. Period.


I have to disagree. Copybotting in itself isn't wrong if you created the object copybotted. Selling things cobybotted that you didn't create is. Copybot is a tool and like any other tool, if used incorrectly can cause damage. An inanimate object is incapable of harm without interaction.

Giving away copybotted items for free is also a violation, as I'm sure you know, as well as porting them without permission to another virtual environment and distributing them there is, as I'm sure you also know.

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jwenting wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

 

I think we all pretty much know the answers to the first five questions,  the more interesting story would be to get copybotters to talk.

a smart copybotter won't talk as he know he'll get kicked off the grid so fast he can't even say bye to his copybotted items...

And the stupid copybotters had that happen to them long ago...

They don't get kicked off the grid. Nothing much happens to them.

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Pamela Galli wrote:


jwenting wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

 

I think we all pretty much know the answers to the first five questions,  the more interesting story would be to get copybotters to talk.

a smart copybotter won't talk as he know he'll get kicked off the grid so fast he can't even say bye to his copybotted items...

And the stupid copybotters had that happen to them long ago...

They don't get kicked off the grid. Nothing much happens to them.

So you what you really mean by that statement is that the 'supposed' original creators are too damn lazy to get off their butts and initiate a DCMA in a court.  It's not LL's job to replace the judiciary in matters of civil or criminal law.  They [LL] will of course provide as much evidence as they are required to do so to both parties, but it requires the supposed creator to at least care enough to prove their case in a court of law.

If the creator can't be bothered to file a lawsuit then the law can do nothing and therefore LL can do nothing, period.  I've always found it odd that the ones who protest so much about copybotters are usually the ones who have the most power and motive to stop it.  Imagine if a store owner told you in real life that they had been robbed five times.  You would probably have a lot of sympathy for them, but then how would you feel if they told you that they never went to the police once to report it?

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Suspiria Finucane wrote:


Dillon Levenque wrote:

 People do copybotting. Copybotting is wrong. Period.


I have to disagree. Copybotting in itself isn't wrong if you created the object copybotted. Selling things cobybotted that you didn't create is. Copybot is a tool and like any other tool, if used incorrectly can cause damage. An inanimate object is incapable of harm without interaction.

Well, yes. Copybotting an item you yourself created would of course not be wrong. My statement was regarding copybotting someone else's creation. I hadn't considered the case you suggest, thinking that if someone had created an item he could just ....copy it.

 

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Bronxcheer wrote:


Pamela Galli wrote:


jwenting wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

 

I think we all pretty much know the answers to the first five questions,  the more interesting story would be to get copybotters to talk.

a smart copybotter won't talk as he know he'll get kicked off the grid so fast he can't even say bye to his copybotted items...

And the stupid copybotters had that happen to them long ago...

They don't get kicked off the grid. Nothing much happens to them.

So you what you really mean by that statement is that the 'supposed' original creators are too damn lazy to get off their butts and initiate a DCMA in a court.  It's not LL's job to replace the judiciary in matters of civil or criminal law.  They [LL] will of course provide as much evidence as they are required to do so to both parties, but it requires the supposed creator to at least care enough to prove their case in a court of law.

If the creator can't be bothered to file a lawsuit then the law can do nothing and therefore LL can do nothing, period.  I've always found it odd that the ones who protest so much about copybotters are usually the ones who have the most power and motive to stop it.  Imagine if a store owner told you in real life that they had been robbed five times.  You would probably have a lot of sympathy for them, but then how would you feel if they told you that they never went to the police once to report it?

In many cases merchants who are copybotted have no idea they have been, especially those who sell hundreds-thousands of items.  The only way such a merchant even knows one or more of their items has been copybotted is 1) if another SL resident tells them  2) if they are out and about in SL and just happen to come across the copybotted item or 3) if they see it on the MP.

In my opinion a lot of copybotters choose large merchants, perhaps because they are known designers and it is believed that a copybotted item from them would sell better than one from an obscure, relatively unknown merchant.  Perhaps it is exactly because merchants who sell a LOT of items are so busy creating and doing the myriad things necessary to get the items in their store & MP plus any marketing they might do that these larger merchants are targeted; the rationale being they are too busy to notice.

Many merchants I know, especially those for whom their SL earnings are either their entire RL income or a great portion of it, rarely leave their sims due to being extremely busy.  It is not easy to earn that kind of money in SL.  Even if they did...the probability of just "happening" to run into one of their items that was copybotted is slim given how large SL is.  Trying to keep track of one's items that another has copied & has for sale on the MP is also extremely time-consuming.

Every merchant that I know who finds out their item/s are being copybotted immediately file DMCAs.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:


Suspiria Finucane wrote:


Dillon Levenque wrote:

 People do copybotting. Copybotting is wrong. Period.


I have to disagree. Copybotting in itself isn't wrong if you created the object copybotted. Selling things cobybotted that you didn't create is. Copybot is a tool and like any other tool, if used incorrectly can cause damage. An inanimate object is incapable of harm without interaction.

Well, yes. Copybotting an item you yourself created would of course not be wrong. My statement was regarding copybotting someone else's creation. I hadn't considered the case you suggest,
thinking that if someone had created an item he could just ....copy it.

 

Exactly and why so many people mistake shift drag as copybotting. :matte-motes-wink:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

In many cases merchants who are copybotted have no idea they have been, especially those who sell hundreds-thousands of items.  The only way such a merchant even knows one or more of their items has been copybotted is 1) if another SL resident tells them  2) if they are out and about in SL and just happen to come across the copybotted item or 3) if they see it on the MP.

In my opinion a lot of copybotters choose large merchants, perhaps because they are known designers and it is believed that a copybotted item from them would sell better than one from an obscure, relatively unknown merchant.  Perhaps it is exactly
because
merchants who sell a LOT of items are so busy creating and doing the myriad things necessary to get the items in their store & MP plus any marketing they might do that these larger merchants are targeted; the rationale being they are too busy to notice.

Many merchants I know, especially those for whom their SL earnings are either their entire RL income or a great portion of it, rarely leave their sims due to being extremely busy.  It is not easy to earn that kind of money in SL.  Even if they did...the probability of just "happening" to run into one of their items that was copybotted is slim given how large SL is.  Trying to keep track of one's items that another has copied & has for sale on the MP is also extremely time-consuming.

Every merchant that I know who finds out their item/s are being copybotted immediately file DMCAs.

It is easier than ever to find copybotted versions of your work. With so much of SL's commerce being driven through the MP, that is where thieves predominantly sell, especially compared to a few years ago. All a merchant has to do is run a MP search for keywords relevant to their business then sort the results by Age: Newest First. Do that every day and it only takes a few minutes to skim through items added in the last 24 hrs that match your keyword searches.

The added bonus to this is it also allows you to keep fully up to date on what products your competitors are releasing on the MP.

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Also in response to this thread.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Copybotting/td-p/2035545

This is why you do not support CopyBotting in SecondLife, for all the Merchants who are not aware in Second Life there are a bunch of CopyBot sites on the internet I will link them here if you wish to take legal actions, but do not download any files from the sites as the viewers contain keyloggers.

1.Forum.kinggoon.co
2. KingGoon.net
3.GoonSquad.co

Last year a RP Community known as NoR in Second Life who used to be 28 sims in 2009-2010 supported the CopyBot the admin Bizarre Obscure deny's their community had anything to do with the attacks on Cal Corleone, who btw the players who played on EVIL used his builds there, and possibly even Vehicles from Szym Motors the merchant who was CopyBot in the sandbox by Synphony Vayanadar, and her alternate accounts to ruin them for revenge and laughs as well as being a registered user on the KingGoon forum, go look up these names on Google you will see there is a ton of evidence of griefer attacks by this person using their sims and admins covering for them trying to blame the person who reported them after being griefed.

The famous Neko ELF, who Bizzare Obscure, Spook, and Synphony Vayandar blame never had any interest in Vehicles in Second Life, Only hard-core RP Nerds did so why they would even Bot something they never used never even had in their inventory, and only ever bought two bikes in the entire gaming history until their account themselves was finally brute-froced and hacked by KingGoon is beyond me... So yes lets talk more trash about the Neko Elf.

Oh and look who attacks www.landofnor.com it was attacked by KingGoon Yeah what did you expect didn't I warn everyone many many frigging times don't get involved with CopyBot, and yes I know about the two Merchants in NoR who worked with the CopyBot trying to cover for Synphony as well, Im the one who threatend to CopyBot their stores myself for revenge after their constant attacks and spread of rumors to help KingGoon, Never did it of course, but Next time I will not be so forgiving towards anyone helping botters like this and will seek my own vengance.... Yeah This is why you don't get involved with illegal activities in Second Life with the goons, and the exact reason why you don't want to get mixed up with this crap as a merchant. Play with Fire Someone will get hurt.


Have fun, and remember if you support your content developers in Second Life, Do not play in RP  sims where admins support CopyBot where it be NoR, GOR, or any other sim There are many GOR sims, I know the GOR HUB Admins don't support it they were also victim of kinggoon attacks, but there are many Gorean sims some which support CopyBot most of those are from other countries aka french, italian, Romaina, not saying all people from there are bad just what I found out in 2009 myself from personal experience you see them its best to keep eyes open and avoid their sims.

Why avoid their sims because if you play there you support botters, and support them copying your avatar for share on their forums you are just as guilty.

 And if you think you guess who this is.


You are probabily right, but what are you going to do about it lol, Iam here to see the destruction of NoR or retirement of Bizzare Obscure the person who supports Synphony Vayandar and their CopyBot friends I will not stop spreading word and documents until its done, and remember not only is KingGoon attacking You all, We are We do it out of revenge because of what you did to Our Merchant Friends... Someone must pay Linden Lab obviously doesn't do crap because the sim owner pays at least 1.8K a month and makes income but doesn't pay TAX either.

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I design in SL as art, why would you want to copy someone else's art. I have given away more gowns than I will ever sell in SL. My line sells only to pay for my land and tools so I can continue to create. I have never in the last 5 years pulled Monty out of SL, if I was ever in the positive... My money went to support my favorite places in SL since I started playing SL, to hosts, DJs and back to my group. So yesterday I found out that a well known copy botted company inSL copy botted my design. It was a gown that I spent over 40 hours creating,with hand placed textures (over 1000). As the creator, I'm disappointed with SL for allowing this business to continue. And Second, disappointed that someone would copy another persons idea. Good news, my boyfriend is a lawyer and I will press legal actions and my line is in the process of bring copy righted.

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I design in SL as art, why would you want to copy someone else's art. I have given away more gowns than I will ever sell in SL. My line sells only to pay for my land and tools so I can continue to create. I have never in the last 5 years pulled money out of SL, if I was ever in the positive... My money went to support my favorite places in SL since I started playing SL, to hosts, DJs and back to my group. So yesterday I found out that a well known copy botted company inSL copy botted my design. It was a gown that I spent over 40 hours creating,with hand placed textures (over 1000). As the creator, I'm disappointed with SL for allowing this business to continue. And Second, disappointed that someone would copy another persons idea.

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Lili Halostar wrote:

I design in SL as art, why would you want to copy someone else's art. I have given away more gowns than I will ever sell in SL. My line sells only to pay for my land and tools so I can continue to create. I have never in the last 5 years pulled money out of SL, if I was ever in the positive... My money went to support my favorite places in SL since I started playing SL, to hosts, DJs and back to my group. So yesterday I found out that a well known copy botted company inSL copy botted my design. It was a gown that I spent over 40 hours creating,with hand placed textures (over 1000). As the creator, I'm disappointed with SL for allowing this business to continue. And Second, disappointed that someone would copy another persons idea.

Well I'm glad that you are taking legal action.  However, how would LL know that you are the original creator and not the copybotter?  It's entirely feasible that the copybotter could have created the design in another virtual world where you copied it and then imported it into SL.  You wouldn't believe the amount of items that are illegally copied in SL and then exported out to be sold or given away in other worlds like InWorldz etc.

I'm quite prepared to believe your story is the truth in this case, but I'm just outlining why LL can't act as judge and jury and  that it's down to copybotted creators to take legal action and establish the truth in law so that LL can take action to ban them in so far as they are able.

Good luck to you!  :smileyhappy:

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