Copybotting

[Sita Writer]

I am doing an article on copybotting for an inworld magazine. If you have been successfully copybotted and would like to talk about it please drop me a notecard inworld with answers to these questions:

1. How did you know your store or shape or designs were copybotted

2. What is your opinion of copybotting

3. What was your reaction to this offense

4. What would you like to say to copybotters?

5. What was your recourse and the response of LL

If you have been copybotted and don't want to talk about it.... why not?

If you are a copybotter -- would just love to know why you do it

Thanks all

Sita Writer

[Czari Zenovka]

And the name of the inworld magazine is?

[Porky Gorky]

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Sita Writer wrote:

If you are a copybotter -- would just love to know why you do it

 

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I think this question is worthy of a Darwin Award.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Porky Gorky wrote:

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Sita Writer wrote:

If you are a copybotter -- would just love to know why you do it

 

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I think this question is worthy of a Darwin Award.

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Seconded

[Perrie Juran]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Porky Gorky wrote:

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Sita Writer wrote:

If you are a copybotter -- would just love to know why you do it

 

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I think this question is worthy of a Darwin Award.

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Seconded

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I'll Third this. 

Can we bring it up for a vote now?

[Vania Chaplin]

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Porky Gorky wrote:

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Sita Writer wrote:

If you are a copybotter -- would just love to know why you do it

 

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I think this question is worthy of a Darwin Award.

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4th

LOL

[Astrid Kaufmat]

too lazy for too many questions

Will do her exercises

A is not B is not C is not D

oh then there aren't only A in the alphabet,  I wonder why this morning in the park,while I was taking my dags to .... the quiz on the wall  wanted to tell me that there are only A's

but if there werre only A's and A were bad letters to use to make a word would it justify itself and wouldn't it be worth try to make another alternative alphabet?

Got to catch those writers and ask them why they painterd that on the wall. I am too blond for the solution of the quiz

[Amethyst Jetaime]

If I were copybotted and didn't want to talk about it, why would I want to talk about not talking about it?

 

I think we all pretty much know the answers to the first five questions,  the more interesting story would be to get copybotters to talk.

[Syo Emerald]

I think you shouldn't write for a magazine at all.

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

From copybotters I've known, there are different reasons they do it. Some to rip off items and resell them as their own, some to use the items for themselves, others because they think it gives them power and boosts their egoes, some do it to "prove" they're smarter than others to get round safe guards against it, others because they think everything in SL be free and they will go on about the virtual economy and how offensive it is to pay for pixels. I don't think this question is stupid.

[Sita Writer]

I write for many publications in both lives. This is a difficult issue and I thought I would bring it to the forms. I am looking for designers and copybotters to talk to as I want a balanced article. If interested please drop a notecard to me inworld no later than 6/6. Thanks.

Sita Writer

[Dillon Levenque]

Why do you describe it as a 'difficult issue'? Nothing difficult about the issue at all. People do copybotting. Copybotting is wrong. Period. Do it so you can have something cool that you didn't pay for but not sell/give it to anyone else? Still wrong. I don't see the difficulty. Creators make things and offer them for sale. Pay their price or do without. Anything else is stealing.

You say you write for many publications 'in both lives', yet you have still to answer the question asked earlier regarding which inworld magazine this article is for.

 

 

Edited to remove a comment that now appears to have been well off the mark.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I too don't think it is a difficult issue at all.  Copybotters are liars and thieves period, no matter how they justify it in their heads.  They are the lowest form of pixels there are because unlike someone that steals food to feed their family, there is no moral justification for what they do.

It disgusts me that you think they deserve a balanced article and now makes me wonder what you are about since you won't give a straight answer as to what magazine you are going to publish the article in. Its a simple question that deserves an answer and a professional journalist would not hesitate in answering it.  Why would a content creator talk you to you at all without knowing this? 

[Porky Gorky]

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Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

From copybotters I've known, there are different reasons they do it. Some to rip off items and resell them as their own, some to use the items for themselves, others because they think it gives them power and boosts their egoes, some do it to "prove" they're smarter than others to get round safe guards against it, others because they think everything in SL be free and they will go on about the virtual economy and how offensive it is to pay for pixels. I don't think this question is stupid.

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Finding out the core reasons why thieves choose to steal content is not a stupid question, and it was not the reason for my comment.

Inviting copybotters to incriminate themselves in the public domain and possibly expose themselves to a trap was the reason for my comment.

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

My impression was that the OP meant coping with copybotters is a difficult issue, not copybotting itself. As for her writing credentials, this is from her profile:

Editor: SL Fierce , Editor AvCON

Feature Writer: Maniera -RL and SL, Moolto,  OI Magazine, Unforgettable, InWorld

Blogger for: Eshi Otawara, Violator, Resun, 7 Deadly Skins

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I too don't think it is a difficult issue at all.  Copybotters are liars and thieves period, no matter how they justify it in their heads.  They are the lowest form of pixels there are because unlike someone that steals food to feed their family, there is no moral justification for what they do.

It disgusts me that you think they deserve a balanced article and now makes me wonder what you are about since you won't give a straight answer as to what magazine you are going to publish the article in.

Its a simple question that deserves an answer and a professional journalist would not hesitate in answering it.  Why would a content creator talk you to you at all without knowing this? 

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A balanced view of an issue is a long standing tenet of journalism, though some are in favor of it and others aren't, and some think objectivity is impossible. I don't understand why anyone would think responsible journalism is disgusting.

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

There are content thieves who take great pride in what they do and don't hide it; they speak about it openly (albeit through an alt). They're very arrogant about it and contemptous enough of others that they have no problem with coming forward and saying what they do.

[Bernie Shippe]

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Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

From copybotters I've known, there are different reasons they do it. Some to rip off items and resell them as their own, some to use the items for themselves, others because they think it gives them power and boosts their egoes, some do it to "prove" they're smarter than others to get round safe guards against it, others because they think everything in SL be free and they will go on about the virtual economy and how offensive it is to pay for pixels. I don't think this question is stupid.

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and there's another reason for using copybot or other permissions breaking techniques

sometimes you legitimately buy an object and it works just fine. then server changes happen. the creator leaves SL. and you're left with a product that no longer works. you know how to fix it but it's no-mod. so you do a little bit of this and a little bit of that and now you have a mod version. you fix it. use it only for yourself. and all is good.

sadly, there are holier-than-thou types here who would cast you into the depths of you know where for doing so. it's rediculous.

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

 People do copybotting. Copybotting is wrong. Period.

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I have to disagree. Copybotting in itself isn't wrong if you created the object copybotted. Selling things cobybotted that you didn't create is. Copybot is a tool and like any other tool, if used incorrectly can cause damage. An inanimate object is incapable of harm without interaction.

[Ly Jie]

You really know so many copybotters? Or maybe you just make something up.

[GothGirl Demonia]

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Sita Writer wrote:

I am doing an article on copybotting for an inworld magazine. If you have been successfully copybotted and would like to talk about it please drop me a notecard inworld with answers to these questions:

1. How did you know your store or shape or designs were copybotted

Shapes legally can't be copyrighted, although Linden Lab likely might investigate copyright stolen shapes, shapes are not intellectual property as they are created by Linden Lab/designer of second life and are nothing more than numbers this is an opinion of course but there is no way to copyright this in a court/law and even debate it in court.

A Shape looks like this, this is one of my own I edited many times, this is what it looks like when its copybotted.

http://pastebin.com/V7R2KDrZ

Also a lot of merchants also keep in touch with one another, even some merchants have out-side sources who keep them in touch who hate goons just as much but not merchant's themselves so yeah merchant finds out merchant files DMCA, although if you ever get caught being a RAT, prepared to get griefed and they won't just stop with you they will go after your partner/friends so keep it low when reporting to merchants, and have good intel.

2. What is your opinion of copybotting

CopyBotting another persons creation, Absolutely not, There are legit uses for the CopyBot, I hate what all these griefing groups have done with the CopyBot, I found great use of such tools when it was legit to use CopyBot, and Learn about the tools and such I will provide some examples of why I like LibSL, or CopyBot.

a. Shift Clicking in most copybot viewers on a prim opens the UUID which then can be applied to any prim in the game, this can be used if you don't remember the texture you had in your inventory can be a great tool for designers something I wish legit viewers had.

b. Use to back-up own content.

c. CopyBot can also be used to modfiy clothing you purchased for personal use which is no mod, Personally while its a violation of the TOS  if someone actually just used a CopyBot for this I wouldn't care but I had a person I knew friends of friends who told me thisi s all they did with it turns out they lied, They were part of the Griefer Network known as the Goons, CopyBot a lot of my friends stores I found out I reported them I got sick of their mind games and what they did to my friends who work really hard to create content.

In fact the person who did this was related to Second Life Military RP groups, I tracked them and their friends for over 5 months in SL I logged every friend and assoication they had that I could find and kept an eye on all of them until LL Finally got all the accounts I knew of, even then the person who they were partenr with pretend they didn't know what was going on and was a leader in a very popular SL military if I remember correctly.

The result of this action they attempted to get me banned by CopyBotting a redelivery terminal from a store in Second Life, taking over 1000 skin, hairs and shapes and sending them around in a note card saying it was from me but their attempt at this didn't work I could have done a better job framing someone than they did personally.

 

In fact the day this happend I was sent IM's from a load of merchants asking me about what was going on and why I would do that because they really believed it was me given the way the grief was done for awhile, some had doubts and knew it wasn't while others thought it might have been true, which is why merchants have to be very careful because they can be used in Pawns against others too if they go about it the wrong way.

d. To answer the question I don't report people for having CopyBot or Modified Clients, Although LL may choose to punish them there is legit use for it, I know many people in SL who break the TOS using modified clients that are illegal, but I don't report them instead I watch everyone as close as I can even when they don't know it in a public area for Copybotting if I see it I snapshot and report. Some of the people I know who use such illegal tools are Anti Griefers I will not give names, in General it is opinion but even your CopyBot hunter, or Anti Griefer breaks the TOS similar to a griefer, heck even Sim Owners, and RP admins break the TOS by allowing griefers to use sims for CopyBotting, or don't care seen it all.

e. Tools to detect griefer Spam, while FireStorm has this, CopyBot viewers have Keyfinder which is a great tool for opening asset Keys, and great use to scripters.

f. Fact is I know of quite a few reputable scripters in Second Life who have used and still use a CopyBot or modified viewer not authroized by Linden Lab for such tools like the key finder and such.

g. You can use a CopyBot to detect CopyBotted content, sounds wierd, many wouldn't understand where to begin but its true in fact when use of such was legal this is how I began reporting such content, even found some ignorant botters who uploaded their own texture on some content and the UUID matched their avatar key this was before FireStorm added the window  to see who uploaded profile pictures and such was built into default viewers we all get that are legit.

3. What was your reaction to this offense

At first when I hear the word CopyBot I was given the first ever compiled CopyBot I was like WT* is this I didn't know what to do with it, at the time it was not even illegal to own one, heck I didn't even know a CopyBot viewer existed until people told me about it at first I was highly against all use of CopyBot but then I saw both bad use and good use for such tools.

4. What would you like to say to copybotters?

Bad CopyBotters, I think my message was delivered Loud & Clear to the Goons, and all the people I know responsible for ruining merchants without a reason, and why. Well the Goons are the ones who are CopyBotting every merchant in Second Life and posting .XML files for free download on there site, there is GoonSquad,King, and PN, all similar goals while PN is based on Lulz and sim griefs more than the other two they both still do griefing, and  KG/GS are just in it to share content illegally because they believe that all content should be free. 

In fact the Goons, resorted to hacking and brute force attacks on Second Life accounts which is how mine came compromised, as well as placing Keyloggers in all their released viewers, and viewer DDOS relays to use people as slaves for DDOS attacks on other Second Life users IP address such as voice exploit and for lulz those goons with the admin client had access to this information.

5. What was your recourse and the response of LL

Linden Lab could do more in my opinion to ensure the security of players accounts, why they don't is beyond me I have spoken to Lindens via Phone, some of them are quite helpful, and I am thankful to the Linden Employee who have been of help, but the changes that need to come need to start with adding more security to players accounts like IP verifcation link to email so when the user tries to login it sends an email to the user that asks them to verify that its them logging in to proceed with the login attempt like guild wars 2 this adds an additonal layer of security. I personally opend a JIRA about this, but fact is Linden said they would foward it to their security team and it was closed, possibly made private, but we need more people to help start JIRA and such to secure peoples accounts.

As far as CopyBot in general I believe Linden Lab could do better at stopping the CopyBot such as when I reported many CopyBot items in SL Linden Lab couldn't blacklist or remove because I wasn't the IP holder but I was in contact with the merchants I know they did not authroize the Copies, but see Botters just keep Importing .XML files so one copy becomes two, and three and so on there is no stopping it, however if Linden Lab allowed any user to get involved an IP rights campeign and flag content for investigation Linden Lab could check the UUID's and see what is copy bot and what is not especially if the merchatn never gave out rights to the content most botters don't download assets they use the assets that are already on LL servers which are uploaded by the IP holder and easily checked by Linden Lab.

Heck you can use any illegal copybot viewer to help assist in detecting CopyBot content easily, and since Linden are admins I know they have the tools and ability to do this.

If you have been copybotted and don't want to talk about it.... why not?

A lot of merchants are threatend by the goons, the more a merchant fights back the more they will become a target by such griefer groups unless its done anonymously, that is why I did something about every botter I knew who ripped off the fellow shoppers I shop with in the past because they were just content developers they don't have the time to deal with such, meanwhile I enjoyed hunting these copybot scum spent 5 years on one RP copybotting group, and still at them today, and if I am not some of my friends are.

Crashing a Sim in Second Life with 

No Build 

& No Script is actually pretty easy with the right resources.

Revenge is a very Powerful thing you see , some griefers grief for the lulz just for laughs, others do it for revenge, and some do it to get back at others, in other words I want CopyBot scumbags who ripped off all my merchants off this grid, and same with the people who support them.

If you are a copybotter -- would just love to know why you do it

I don't rip off other merchants, but its simple and very easy to get a CopyBot off google search, I am not going to provide links, and going to warn that many CopyBot viewers that have been released have had Keyloggers put into them especially the ones from the goons.

http://imgur.com/a/4FSJf

 Here is proof obtained from reading forums of Keyloggers placed in CopyBot Viewers.

However I will explain why CopyBotters do it and their agenda based on what I hear.

1. Some Copybotters do it simply because they are greedy no good for nothing pirates who don't want to support merchants in Second Life.

2. Some do it because they are in another country and have a hard time within income and money so they claim which could be true I don't know doesn't make it right.

3. Some do it for revenge against a merchant for X reason.

4. Some just want everything Free.

And among these lines is another debate.

Uploading Mesh from TurboSquid, or from Video Games without IP rights from the company.

By law removal of content has to be filed by the Intellectual Property Rights holder, however if that person or company doesn't care it doesn't get removed however to explain why some people do it.

1. Some do it out of greed and profit so they sell it on market place.

2. Some merchants I know have taken Ideas recreated items from other games and sold it on market but made modifications to it and almost exact replica but their own version.

3. Some do it because they just want to be 

Rikku

for gods sake RP reasons I can somewhat Understand that people want to be their favorite video game character in an RP but it doesn't make it legally right, In fact I loved FUS-Ro-Dah people until the hud was removed from market place due to false dmca I believe because someone elses is still up there, but anyways back to the point some peopel do it just because they want to live their Second Life like their favorite video game character.

4. Also take AVATAR for example all these replica's from the movie.

Which leads to the point where do you legally draw the line when it comes to CopyRight &  Second Life on mesh.

Thanks all

Sita Writer

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 I really don't even bother with Second Life anymore after I see what garbage SL has become, how much has changed since I first start SL in 2008, it just isn't worthit all the griefers, RP sims who are afraid to stand up to CopyBotters, and even playing in their community you play around a CopyBotter it disgusts me, I only support SL for the artists, and merchants who are left, and as a social hangout, although the most of my time is now spent in actual MMO-RPG games like Second Life, and becoming more realistic SL wise such as EVE, Guild Wars 2, Entropia, or DarkFall, and actually on RP Community who are 100% Clean and legit. Although Second Life does offer good content, and well things you can't do in other MMO's for the most part its not worth the money or time IMO I still login once in awhile Check friends see whats going on I might return some day when we get clean community in SL and less griefers, I love SL, but can't stand the lack of security either there is no reason LL shouldn't have been able to restore my inventory, or have secondary authintication in place, especially now after all the Phising, Hacking, Brute Force attempts we need better security to protect us. Imagine as a merchant waking up one day to find your entire inventory purged. What would you do.

Don't get me wrong Second Life, still has a great experience for those just looking to meet, hang out with friends, but those who are like me into hardcore RPG experience, and Combat, most of this is gone from SL now nothing to return to, and even if I did, I want to be in a place that doesn't allow CopyBotting Scumbag griefers. And no sticking CDS, or Red Zone there is just Spyware, I don't use either one because they are both garbage, I use my eyes ears, and investigate reports manually to deal with such. I mean there is a difference between not knowing there is a CopyBot on your RPG sim, and knowing but doing nothing or not caring saying let LL Deal with it, its disgusting, I don't even want to be in the same sim with a Botter if I know they are there.

You see I have had nice Long Chats with some of the RPG owners in Second Life who supported the Copy-Bot, said Second Life could burn in war they didn't care, but failed to deal with the botter on their sim, and such hostile hate, I wish I could post the logs here myself, either way this is where REVENGE as I talked about takes play some didn't like what they were doing so they got griefed for supporting the CopyBot which personally I don't care they were asked privately to deal with the mess before it got out of hand and exposed on Unofficial forums and blogs, what comes after because some absolutely hate CopyBots is not my problem.

Also as I believe I said Earlier, no one is clean, no one is an angel, even your Anti Griefers, and Copy-Bot hunters have dark secrets, and break the TOS in one way or another same as a CopyBotter.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I too don't think it is a difficult issue at all.  Copybotters are liars and thieves period, no matter how they justify it in their heads.  They are the lowest form of pixels there are because unlike someone that steals food to feed their family, there is no moral justification for what they do.

It disgusts me that you think they deserve a balanced article and now makes me wonder what you are about since you won't give a straight answer as to what magazine you are going to publish the article in.

Its a simple question that deserves an answer and a professional journalist would not hesitate in answering it.  Why would a content creator talk you to you at all without knowing this? 

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A balanced view of an issue is a long standing tenet of journalism, though some are in favor of it and others aren't, and some think objectivity is impossible. I don't understand why anyone would think responsible journalism is disgusting.

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I agree that a balanced view is a long standing tenant of journalism, when the subjects being covered are things such as political or religious opinions or two sides of a civic issue such as if a road should be built through an historic district.  However there are exceptions.  A journalist presenting a self professed criminal's justifications and in the case of most copybotters, advocacy for committing the crime with the same respect as creators without challenging them or offering editorial comment is not responsible journalism. 

There is a legitimate use for copybot type tools, such as a creator using it to produce replicas of their own work or someone using it to create a copy of a full perm item when that is allowed by the creator.  So a legitimate balanced presentation of views on copybot with one side saying copybotting should banned all together and another side saying it shouldn't due to the fact there are legit uses for it, would be responsible journalism.  However publishing an article giving equal treatment to the view that it is illegal to steal content and the view that it is ok to ignore the law and steal is not.

By your way of thinking it would be ok for a food journalist to publish the cannibal society's prize winning recipe for creating a dish from human flesh along side the beef council's prize winning recipe for beef Wellington. Yes that is an extreme example but by applying your view to an extreme situation you can tell if the view is always right without exception.

[Dillon Levenque]

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Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

My impression was that the OP meant coping with copybotters is a difficult issue, not copybotting itself. As for her writing credentials, this is from her profile:

Editor: SL Fierce , Editor AvCON

Feature Writer: Maniera -RL and SL, Moolto,  OI Magazine, Unforgettable, InWorld

Blogger for: Eshi Otawara, Violator, Resun, 7 Deadly Skins

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Okay, I can see that is one way the comment could be taken. I took it to mean there was difficulty in understanding the rightness/wrongness, as you noticed.

Thank you for the information about the magazines, that at least indicates there's little chance the OP is a troll. It would have been better for the OP to have provided that information, but I suppose I could have learned it by googling or Inworld search had I taken the time.

[Perrie Juran]

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GothGirl Demonia wrote:

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Also as I believe I said Earlier, no one is clean, no one is an angel, even your Anti Griefers, and Copy-Bot hunters have dark secrets, and break the TOS in one way or another same as a CopyBotter.

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Yes, as I recall in another thread, you confessed to being a hacker yourself.

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

Know as in am friends with or know well? Nope. I have met a few, usually through IMs, and seen some blog posts, and interviews, and manifestos over the years. I knew a couple of people who had purchased expensive skins after trying on the demos, only to find serious flaws with the skins and they ripped the skins and edited them to correct the flaws, for their own personal use, after contacting the skin creators and asking for the flaws to be either corrected or refunds given, and getting what they described as "snobby" and "rude" replies.