Stop with the notecards

[Tari Landar]

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Penny Patton wrote:

Since enabling offline IMs to go to e-mail, I haven't had a problem with capped IMs. Actually, I'd rather people contact me via my profile "send message" feature than notecard. I can read and respond to those while not logged in as well. If people really are having issues where offline IMs are not going to email, I hope they're filing support tickets so LL knows there's a problem. But even in that case the newer profile-based messaging feature is, again, far better than notecards.

Notecards are about the worst method of communication, inconvenient for both the person sending the message and the person recieving.

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Ll is aware of it, and has been for a long time now. I've seen, voted on, commented on, JIRAs and such too. Filing a ticket does no good, it's not a "problem" according to them. It's something we're supposed to file a JIRA for. I know because after having it happen quite a few times, I filed a ticket and that was the response they gave..file a JIRA.

But JIRAs are useless these days.

It probably happens a lot more often than people realize, but since they don't notice, it doesn't get mentioned. I know I have stints where things work perfectly fine on that end for months at a time. Then I have times when I miss a msg or two here and there. It's never a constant "onoez I'm missing all of my messages inworld and out". If that were the case, I would likely assume it's on my end, possibly my ISP, or something very hinky. But since it's sporadic, without rhyme or reason, and affects way more than just me, I know it's not on my end.

[JoJo Aurelia]

I request notecards. I don't get off line IM's. When I log out, I'm out. I made a personal decision to not get IM's offline and focus on real life.

Notecards are more reliable for me.

[Tari Landar]

l'd also state for the record that the only reason I know I've missed messages, is because I've had people send them to me after the fact, asking if I saw it. It happened a few days ago. I got an offline msg from a good friend that never made it to my email, and wasn't there when I logged on either. She caught me online and c&p'd what she had asked in the msg I didn't get. I trust her timestamp as being accurate-and it was actually an important part of the msg she sent. It wasa a msg that never got sent through, for whatever reason. Definitely not a constant, but I'm not ignorant enough to say it can't happen, even if it's something that doesn't always affect me.

There's always the possibility I've missed more messages I don't know about. But since I don't know about them, and the people who sent them never re-send, I can't know I've missed it. Which is why I don't understand the "I've never missed a msg sent to my email before" line. You can't know that for certain. You might have, you wouldn't know if someone didn't tell you though. You can think or believe you've never missed one, but how can you know with any certainty?

Semantics I suppose.

As for the nc/im debate, I opt for whatever people have in their profiles. If they don't specify, odds are you're going to get both from me. Not always, but it's my typical go to when people don't have a method they prefer. Then again, I only tend to im or send a nc if there is an issue or some pressing matter. It's not often I have a need to contact very many people anyway.

[Abigail Merlin]

the only "missed" messages I regulary experiance that I know of are those that the system hangs on untill I log out, at that point they get send to my mail and are waiting when I log back in again, sometimes they also go right to my email and will be in my offline messages when I log back in, mihgt be that the IM system gets confused about my online status from time to time, offcourse if the reverse was to happen the message would be truly lost as it gets send to an agent that is not there after the online check meaning it does not get send to email but I won't know about them

[Paul Hexem]

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Tari Landar wrote:

l'd also state for the record that the only reason I know I've missed messages, is because I've had people send them to me after the fact, asking if I saw it. It happened a few days ago. I got an offline msg from a good friend that never made it to my email, and wasn't there when I logged on either. She caught me online and c&p'd what she had asked in the msg I didn't get. I trust her timestamp as being accurate-and it was actually an important part of the msg she sent. It wasa a msg that never got sent through, for whatever reason. Definitely not a constant, but I'm not ignorant enough to say it can't happen, even if it's something that doesn't always affect me.

There's always the possibility I've missed more messages I don't know about.

But since I don't know about them, and the people who sent them never re-send, I can't know I've missed it. Which is why I don't understand the "I've never missed a msg sent to my email before" line.

You can't know that for certain. You might have, you wouldn't know if someone didn't tell you though. You can think or believe you've never missed one, but how can you know with any certainty?

Semantics I suppose.

As for the nc/im debate, I opt for whatever people have in their profiles. If they don't specify, odds are you're going to get both from me. Not always, but it's my typical go to when people don't have a method they prefer. Then again, I only tend to im or send a nc if there is an issue or some pressing matter. It's not often I have a need to contact very many people anyway.

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Would you feel better if we said, "No one's ever complained that we missed their message"?

[Pamela Galli]

At one time my profile pic was my avi holding a sign saying No Notecards Please.  I made a group called No Notecards Please. It was in my profile and pics and autoresponse and vacation response.

I gave up.

What I frequently hear after someone has IMed me, whether I am offline or inworld: Thank you for being so fast!

I don't do my building inworld much anymore but I do CS all day long, every day. IMs to email allow me to do that. Notecards do not. When I log in to take care of something, I have usually already replied to the customer and let him know I will take care of whatever they need.

I should say I have no memory of having discovered any missing IMs to email. Evidently some people do have problems getting email but I would not assume this is a problem with the LL system. However if you are not getting IMs to email and they are capped, then your notecards are as likely to get capped. This is what happens to me: I get a notice that I received a notecard, and when I log in it is not there. 

 

Bottom line is to read the profile and follow the instructions on communication preferences whatever they may be. 

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

@Perrie: While you're right about people not following instructions, it's also partly to blame on dumb merchants that insist that they will never receive a message if it's not a note card.

 

@iCade: I often consider a career as an angry writer/reviewer like you see on those websites, but I don't get angry at enough stuff to make it a full time job.

 

@Penny: I knew someone would show up and agree with me if I waited long enough. Finally a voice of reason!

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I'm not sure what is going on there.  Sometimes I use IM's, sometimes note cards.  I do check the Merchants profile first to see if they have a preferred contact method. If it is something lengthy or I am including a screen shot to help illustrate my problem I will use a note card.

As far as messages not  getting to E Mail, I know for a fact it happens.  I have logged in and found messages waiting for me that never showed up in my E Mail.  It has been very rare, but it does happen.  But as someone else has pointed out in this thread, LL's response in the past has been "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil."

Unless it was something that was crippling me I won't waste my time with the black hole that fake as JIRA's now.

All you can hope for is that people try and use good sense when communicating and like in your situation that they follow instructions.   You have a preferred way which I will agree is generally the better way.  I'm just reluctant to make an absolute out of it.

[Solar Legion]

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

I request notecards. I don't get off line IM's. When I log out, I'm out. I made a personal decision to not get IM's offline and focus on real life.

Notecards are more reliable for me.

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And that isn't even mentioning the personal choice to allow/disallow Second Life IM to Email messages to clutter up one's Inbox - a notion that seems to escape some.

[Paul Hexem]

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Solar Legion wrote:

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

I request notecards. I don't get off line IM's. When I log out, I'm out. I made a personal decision to not get IM's offline and focus on real life.

Notecards are more reliable for me.

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And that isn't even mentioning the personal choice to allow/disallow Second Life IM to Email messages to clutter up one's Inbox - a notion that seems to escape some.

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Any and all remotely decent webmail service and/or pop3 software has filters and folders you can set up. I have about 6. All the scripted objects related to the SL land goes into one folder, other scripted objects go into another folder, avatar messages go into another folder, stuff from people in my contacts get their own folder, RL work stuff gets a folder, and everything else that doesn't meet any of the filters drops into the inbox.

It's actually quite streamlined, no clutter.

[Melita Magic]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Turn on IM to email, and your IMs will never cap. Ever. 

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That's not always true. Which means it isn't true at all.

IM to email still can cap. I've had it happen and others have too. I've seen them say so. The IMs are not in spam, and not in email. I don't know why that sometimes happens: it could be the email program, it could be SL glitching, it could be that the person was logging out or teleporting just at that moment. I don't know. I have also had IMs show up in email that I got while I was logged in, or show up a day or more later.

 ETA: I had written my reply before I realized a lot of other people told you the same thing. I wasn't trying to flog a dead equine, honest.

[Tari Landar]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

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Would you feel better if we said, "No one's ever complained that we missed their message"?

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lol, You can say whatever you want. Neither makes me feel worse, or better. It is what it is. In your experience, you've never had any issues you know of. Mine hasn't been the same. That's how life goes sometimes.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

The goal is to ensure that customers that need to contact you get their message through.  Each person has to decide what works best in their circumstances to make sure this happens.

If you don't want notecards you can say that in your profile.  But no matter what you do, some people won't read that and send them anyway.

[Paul Hexem]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

The goal is to ensure that customers that need to contact you get their message through.  Each person has to decide what works best in their circumstances to make sure this happens.

If you don't want notecards you can say that in your profile.  But no matter what you do, some people won't read that and send them anyway.

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That's all well and good until they start bitching because I'm not reading their notecard while I'm replying to them via email and telling them I can't read whatever they just sent me.

[Pamela Galli]

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Solar Legion wrote:

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

I request notecards. I don't get off line IM's. When I log out, I'm out. I made a personal decision to not get IM's offline and focus on real life.

Notecards are more reliable for me.

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And that isn't even mentioning the personal choice to allow/disallow Second Life IM to Email messages to clutter up one's Inbox - a notion that seems to escape some.

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My messsages go into different folders -- personal, sales, rez notices, IMs, etc.

[Trin1]

People don't seem to realize, if your ims are capped so are your notecards.

IMs, inventory offers and group messages all count twards the cap limit.

I've never lost a message sent to email, have lost some inventory though :matte-motes-confused:

[Orca Flotta]

I'm lazy with email, checking my account maybe every other week. And the last thing I wanna see in my email inbox are stupid SL things. On the other hand I gotta say I lovelovelove notecards. They are so much closer to real letters than some hastily scribbled IMs. You  can structure them, you can make various points and arguments, carefully divided bx paragraphs and lines. No better way in SL to communicate user manuals, to-do lists, messages to a group of ppl and other stuff.

IM is so blah bleh meh. Close the friggin box and it's gone. Useless crap other than in a realtime convo.

[Solar Legion]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

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Solar Legion wrote:

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

I request notecards. I don't get off line IM's. When I log out, I'm out. I made a personal decision to not get IM's offline and focus on real life.

Notecards are more reliable for me.

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And that isn't even mentioning the personal choice to allow/disallow Second Life IM to Email messages to clutter up one's Inbox - a notion that seems to escape some.

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Any and all remotely decent webmail service and/or pop3 software has filters and folders you can set up. I have about 6. All the scripted objects related to the SL land goes into one folder, other scripted objects go into another folder, avatar messages go into another folder, stuff from people in my contacts get their own folder, RL work stuff gets a folder, and everything else that doesn't meet any of the filters drops into the inbox.

It's actually quite streamlined, no clutter.

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Your point? It is unneccisary clutter, filters or not. It is your personal choice to choke up your e-mail with IMs that have been sent through a system that is prone to breaking down on occasion. That's lovely.

It remains, your opinion and choice.

Others choose to avoid having to set up the filters to begin with by keeping the option to send IMs to Email turned off. For whatever reason, this is how they choose to manage things.

In the end, that's what it bils down to - No need to be defensive, no need to act as if only those who make the choice you have are the only rational people out there.

[Solar Legion]

See my response to Gadget. Same applies here.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I do not have my IM's going to email.  Here's why

I keep business hours in SL. In RL  you can't contact a store outside their business hours for assistance so why should customers expect that in SL?  Besides, what kind of emergency could arise in SL that can't wait 24 hours or less for me to reply?  

Even when I am working on another screen my avi is in world and I can see when I get an IM.  People have hours and hours to contact me every day, unless I am sick or in a place in RL with no web access.(Yes there are still places like that)  At the end of my business hours, they can contact me by notecard and I reply the next day.  I've never had a customer complain to me about my service and support. 

When my work  day is done it is done.  I have a private SL that I spend with my partner and friends. I think it would be rude to them to interrupt out conversations and activities to deal with a customer especially since 90 percent of the ones who contact me could answer their own question if they read my instructions.

I have a RL and when I am logged out of SL, I am not near my computer to even see emails, so there is no point in having my IM's to email.

[Dilbert Dilweg]

Notecards don't bother me. But I am finding this new CHUI viewer has an easy access to your conversation logs. Don't miss any messages. Sl emails can fail as well. Not 100% reliable. Might help on reducing notecard bombardment LOL

 

Some times I can miss messages sent to me while being AFK and then come back to see your viewer has crashed to desktop and any messages that was sent would be lost and not emailed. I guess it is just as easy to delete the notecards as easy it was to receive them

[Paul Hexem]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I do not have my IM's going to email.  Here's why

I keep business hours in SL. In RL  you can't contact a store outside their business hours for assistance so why should customers expect that in SL?  Besides, what kind of emergency could arise in SL that can't wait 24 hours or less for me to reply?  

Even when I am working on another screen my avi is in world and I can see when I get an IM.  People have hours and hours to contact me every day, unless I am sick or in a place in RL with no web access.(Yes there are still places like that)  At the end of my business hours, they can contact me by notecard and I reply the next day.  I've never had a customer complain to me about my service and support. 

When my work  day is done it is done.  I have a private SL that I spend with my partner and friends. I think it would be rude to them to interrupt out conversations and activities to deal with a customer especially since 90 percent of the ones who contact me could answer their own question if they read my instructions.

I have a RL and when I am logged out of SL, I am not near my computer to even see emails, so there is no point in having my IM's to email.

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I keep hours in SL too. With the estate company, they don't expect us to be on call 24/7. I still get the messages forwarded to email so that I can see and deal with them when I AM on duty.

[HisaDrug]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

You know what's even worse than that? When I IM someone, and they claim they didn't get it because their IMs cap, use notecards. That's probably one of the dumber things people say in SL... Particularly merchants. Turn on IM to email, and your IMs will never cap. Ever. You'll be able to read every single one. If you don't do this simple thing, you're probably a terrible merchant and should close your store, delete SL off your computer, then set your computer on fire and never go near the Internet again.

 

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I agree with you. Almost every merchant I deal with has this lil sentence on their profiles, 'IMs get capped. Send me a NC. Or don't complain I don't reply you' n it really annoys the **** outta me. Because I know IMs don't get capped that much unless you crash at the logging in or get a hundred of incoming IMs all at once. Or YEAH USE YOUR EMAIL. IT WORKS FANTASTICALLY ! lol

Once this merchant blew up on me cos I IM-ed her instead of sending her a NC about the product I purchased. I was very polite, too. She said she has no time for IMs, n send me this NC that had all the standarized questions about her products that had nothing to do with my question. I requested her attention for 5 mins because she made this product n I needed help. She didnt reply me. I blew my 500 L for something that I couldnt even use. 

 

 

[Monica Querrien]

I like notecards for sending information...why? Because it gives me a record of contacting that person. If the person is not on your friends list, it's a pain digging up logs and trying to remember the day you contacted them so you can remember the person's name. Also, you can see when the person has accepted the notecard (although that is not as reliable as it was in the past). I like them for receiving info too because again, if I don't have you saved, how am I supposed to get back to you?

IMs, unless it goes straight to the person's email (and they have a phone), I am less likely to rely just on IMs alone. If the person is online and they crash before seeing my message, I won't know if they didnt get it or are they ignoring me. If there is nothing specified in a person's profile, I send an IM briefly summarizing my issue, and then follow up with a detailed notecard.

Don't get me wrong - my IMs , etc are set to go to email, because I like to cover my bases - I don't think any method is 100% foolproof. If you get a lot of group messages, you will cap on text messages, plain and simple.

[Tari Landar]

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HisaDrug wrote:

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Gadget Portal wrote:

You know what's even worse than that? When I IM someone, and they claim they didn't get it because their IMs cap, use notecards. That's probably one of the dumber things people say in SL... Particularly merchants. Turn on IM to email, and your IMs will never cap. Ever. You'll be able to read every single one. If you don't do this simple thing, you're probably a terrible merchant and should close your store, delete SL off your computer, then set your computer on fire and never go near the Internet again.

 

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I agree with you. Almost every merchant I deal with has this lil sentence on their profiles, 'IMs get capped. Send me a NC. Or don't complain I don't reply you' n it really annoys the **** outta me.

Because I know IMs don't get capped that much unless you crash at the logging in or get a hundred of incoming IMs all at once. Or YEAH USE YOUR EMAIL. IT WORKS FANTASTICALLY ! lol

 

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You are 100% incorrect. That is not what causes capping at all. I recommend reading some of the links previously shared about the cap, what it is, and why people reach it. Sometimes easier than we'd like to reach it. Despite the fact that I do everything in my power to NOT cap, it happens and it has absolutely nothing at all to do with crashing, or getting several IMs at once. It's messages, objects, notecards, etc.. received while *offline*, it has nothing to do with being online at all.

[Melita Magic]

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Trin1 wrote:

People don't seem to realize, if your ims are capped so are your notecards.

 

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Which is why I don't understand why more people, businesses, pretty much any public space, does not use a mailbox. Simplest thing in the world, you just go in and get your mail. Some can do IM or note card or both. Some don't even require IM but use local chat.

If it were me I'd allow IM or note card, and also have a mailbox on the land. I think what I used to say in my profile was something like, if don't reply to your IM within a week, please send a note card. I did have a mailbox too. Still do.