Buying A Desktop

[MzAllure Crystal]

I'm a Graphic Designer/Artist so I also want something that's powerful enough to handle a bunch of software and applications including Second life. I love HP computers, I want to be able to run Secondlife on at High graphics. I came across this HP desktop tell me what ya think?

http://www.shopping.hp.com/en_US/home-office/-/products/Desktops/HP-ENVY/C9D30AV?HP-ENVY-h8-1500z-Desktop-PC

[Jewel Laurasia]

I am neither an HP fan, nor an AMD fan. Find something with an I7 processor.

[Locke Nider]

In before "Build it yourself"

In before "You can build a computer cheaper than that"

In before "I7, Nvidia 600 series,etc. "

Same thing in every computer topic

 

[Orca Flotta]

CPU seems quite powerful. Can't say exactly tho sice I'm more of a Intel girl.:smileyindifferent:

GPU is stated as a Nvidia GT-620. That's the lowest of the low. You won't have much joy with it on SL.:smileymad:

8 Gigs of 1600 Mhz RAM is cool.:smileyhappy: But as there's no replacement for RAM but more RAM, 16 GB should even be better for not much more money.

No SSD! :smileysurprised:

The case looks rather plastique fantastique. :smileysad:

No word about the mobo or PSU, so I expect them to be just HP standard stuff which won't give you much headroom in terms of upgrading. That's always the problem with preconfigured machines by the huge manufacturers. A superfast, latest fashion processor so you gain bragging rights, and the rest is just carelessly assembled cheapo stuff.

Most of the price you pay for the  HP name and a lot of preinstalled useless crap like Win8, McAffee or Norton antivirus software or MS office testversions and other unwanted chit.

So, yes, configure your own machine and save some bucks or get better for the same price. If you're located in the USA sites like Newegg. com are the go-to places.

[Dillon Levenque]

You weren't in before 'i7'. It was mentioned in the post before you. Also the HP as linked has an Nvidia 600 series GPU.

There IS a reason you tend to see the same recommendations in so many threads on this topic. They are known to work. There's a reason 'conventional wisdom' gets to be conventional wisdom: it has an answer that works. There may very well be other better solutions. When you have one that is superior and repeatable, you are welcome to post it.

To the best of my knowledge the i7 isn't all that important; the people whose opinions I respect consider the i5 to be completely adequate for SL. Tho OP indicated a desire to use the box for advanced things other than SL; given that an i7 would seem to be a good choice.

 

edited for spelling

[Porky Gorky]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

To the best of my knowledge the i7 isn't all that important; the people whose opinions I respect consider the i5 t

o be completely adequate for SL. Tho OP indicated a desire to use the box for advanced things other than SL; given that an i7 would seem to be a good choice.

 

edited for spelling

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I agree with that. I went from using a i5 3570K to a i7 3770K recently and only saw a minor improvement in performance for SL and gaming in general. Certainly not an improvement that warranted the price difference. However I really started to see the benefits of hyper-threading when rendering in 3DS Max and I am happy with the change I made to i7 now. So if the op is rendering 3D, or encoding/decoding video then they should consider an i7. If not then go with the i5 or AMD equivalent.

[Orca Flotta]

The i7 might be a valuable upgrade  for heavy photo/video/music encoding stuff; for everyday use and SL even a i3 does the trick quite well. SL is pathetically underpowered as well as many of our individual connections, so the real bottlenecks are beyond our control and renders faster hardware on the client side useless.

[MzAllure Crystal]

Thanks for the feedback guys! I will definitely look into the i7 processor and find a better NVDIA I may consider another brands besides HP.

I would configure this old DELL laptop but DELL in my opinion never LASTS long. I had a DELL desktop and it was for the birds after a few years..

[Alicia Sautereau]

i5 is more then enough, put the extra bucks into a better gpu

[Sephina Frostbite]

Im in love with my Toshiba and for me IMHO they last a long time.

[Orca Flotta]

Please guys, consider all the big brands are actually not much different from each other. One had luck with their Toshi, others found that perfect Dell or HP or IBM or Acer ... who cares. It's all anecdotal. It's all personal experience and in no way reflective of real life business figures.

You know what a big brand manufacturer actually does? They build a case. That's it more or less. Then they put in the cheapest mobo, PSU and RAM they can find (in taiwan) or produce themself (probaby also in Taiwan). Then they beef it up with a shiny processor and maybe, if you're lucky, a nice GPU. So in the end you always receive a gocart with a ferrari engine.

Wanna upgrade to the latest GPU after 2 or 3 years? Well, bad luck. You're PSU is probably too weak and your chipset too inflexible/outdated to allow any upgrades. So buying a big brand desktop kinda contradicts the main reason for why we buy and keep up with those chunky towers. If you go the desktop route, do it right!  Configure your own custom-tailored machine. It's easier than you think.  Might not always be cheaper since there are so many irresistible components you just have to have. But it's so much more rewarding in the end. The PC you're configuring today may as well be your last one ... ever! So chose the case wisely since from now on all you gotta do is switch out parts.

[Orca Flotta]

Also the HP as linked has an Nvidia 600 series GPU.

 

Yes it has. And what a waste it is. It's a GT-620 for fux sake! The lowest of the low. Why go through the hassle to own a big fat tower if it's full of junk? I can understand using that chip in a cheapo 300-500 $€ lappy but anything that doesn't go by the GTX moniker in a desktop??? Oh please gods have mercy. :smileysad: 

 

That being said, the new Nvidia 7xx series will hit the market in june so we should see some tasty offers for machines with 6xx GPUs soon-ish.

[Keriwena]

At the risk of being tedious, I'll add my voice to the clamour saying, "Build it yourself!" It's really not hard, and you'll absolutely get a better machine with top quality parts throughout, rather just a logo on the front.

 

What SL wants is CPU speed, and since the i5s are nearly as fast as the fastest i7s, the i5 3570K is probably the performance sweet spot in Intel's current line. IF most of your programs support threading, then maybe an i7 is worth it for the extra cores, but it's a big jump in price.

 

For graphics, AMD is making some boards that are very good for gaming, but SL and Blender prefer nVidea, so that's what I'd recommend. If you get a 3570K, the HD4000 graphics onboard bests the GTX 640 (no, really, they do) so you'd need at least a 650 to make it worth spending any money at all, and I think the GTX 660 is the way to go. It's within 20% of the 660ti on some measures, and beats it on others. Not bad for 30% less money.

 

I read one reviewer who was convinced 8Gb of RAM was essential, but he had trouble finding apps that could use 16Gigs. So again, unless you know some graphics program can benefit from more.... Speed doesn't matter with Intel, BTW, but it does help AMDs. At any rate, go with well known brands, as even they can deliver a bum stick.

 

Motherboards.... I'm not going to say they're all the same, but there's a lot of competition and it's hard to pick a winner. I think most people over-buy, and you'd likely be happy with something around $100. The higher priced boards are mostly aimed at over-clockers and hard-core gamers.

 

Power supplies are important. If you search the 'net, you'll find they're mostly all made by a few companies in China.  Get a power supply with enough juice to add a second graphics card, just in case you get hooked on Blender (it won't help SL, at all). The guy to listen to is Gabriel Torres:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-AX850W-Power-Supply-Review/1081

And okay, I'm a neat-freak who cares what the inside of her case looks like - I will never, ever, buy a non-modular supply again!

 

Hard drives - WD or Seagate, take your pick. I'm holding off on the SSDs, the failure rate is still too high, never mind the price. Yes, the performance is fantastic and their day is coming, but it's not here yet, IMHO. I work too hard creating what I store to risk it.

 

No opinions on those other things - I got $20 DVD so I could load Windows. I don't do digital music and I have a TV.

 

So, there you go. The whole shebang cost about $750, purrs like a kitten and is as solid as rock. I run around SL using Ultra with a draw distance of 320m, and only rarely does something drop the frame-rate (and the recent, infamous, Fantasy Fair wasn't a problem).

[honerken]

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Orca Flotta wrote:

You know what a big brand manufacturer actually does? They build a case. 

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Buying it from a manufactor also give you better techinical support and easier part replacement.  I  used to build my own computers all the time (for over 8 years in fact), but I got sick of individual parts shutting down and or my computer not booting up  at all because of faulty hardware.  Is it motherboard, the processor, or the one of my ram slots that's acting up?  That usually takes me up to a week or a more to find out.  I actually have to waste my busy schedule by figuring out with the problem.

Now I by all my high end computers from a trusted company.  Yeah, I may have to pay $100-$200 more, but the extra techincal support is a life saver for me.  If I have a problem, I they can help me through it, or I can just send the whole computer back to them.  My current computer has a gtx 690 and a I7 3770, AND it's fully upgradable

[Orca Flotta]

My current computer has a gtx 690 and a I7 3770, AND it's fully upgradable

 

So you got a top of the line PC, congratz. :smileyhappy: And that wasn't meant sarcastic in any way, I'm honestly jealous.

Still your big manufacturer actually just plonks those parts in a case, nothing you or a small local shop couldn't do. And here we come to the subject of support. If my machine acts up (which it hasn't done in 4 years) I rather take the computer to my local shop instead of going thru the support with a big manufacturer. Hotlines = the horror, the horror. My local shop might not offer those perfect guarantees and service plans of the big players but they can find out which part crapped out, before you brought your box to the post office and sent it to some headquarters. And individual parts are covered by warrantee as well.

 

Further advantages:

No need to pay for an operating system. I'm  still happy with Win 7 and Linux Mint and all the rest of my software is open source anyway.

I know exactly what is inside my box, from the mobo to the RAM.

The case is just right. Since I'm living in a rather sunny and hot place we picked a too huge case with lots of ventilation. I didn't even need to invest in additional fans or some voodoo cooling solutions.

No compromises, no useless stuff. I went with the sales guy thru their store room and together we picked out what I wanted/needed. Not more, not less. Then he told me to bugger of and go shopping or drink a coffee. 2 hours later the computer was ready and he even carried it to the car for me. I didn't even break a nail!  :smileyvery-happy:

 

[MzAllure Crystal]

Ok I customized a HP desktop . Here's some of the Specs

Windows 8 64

3rd Generation Interl i7-3770 quad-core processor

1.5 GB GeForce GTX 660

12 Gb DDR3-1600MHz SDRAM [2DIMMS]

1TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive

460W Power supply

 

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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MzAllure Crystal wrote:

Ok I customized a HP desktop . Here's some of the Specs

Windows 8 64

3rd Generation Interl i7-3770 quad-core processor

1.5 GB GeForce GTX 660

12 Gb DDR3-1600MHz SDRAM [2DIMMS]

1TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive

460W Power supply

 

 

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As someone who is still trying to configure a decent system to run SL on a very limited budget, I'm simultaneously happy for you and jealous...lol.

Trying to decide if I can live with an i3 or if I have to get an i5 - i7 isn't going to happen; tried every which way to be able to get 8 GB of RAM, but will have to live with 4 until I can buy more later; I don't even want to talk about a graphics card...it would probably just be easier to not go in world anymore and keep my present system. :smileyvery-happy:

[Medhue Simoni]

Well, I think the OP's first example is not a bad set up, other than the video card. Throw a Nvidia Geforce 650 in it and you will probably be able to run SL on high, with shadows.

Unless you want to be **bleep**, I wouldn't be building my own PC. It's just not worth the time or energy. You might save $50 bucks, if you are lucky. Plus, many people go cheap in all the wrong places, causing bottle necks in their system.

I recently got a similar set up as the OP's latest, except with 16 gigs of ram and a larger power supply. I don't even run SL on it, cause it's kind of overboard for SL. I got it for 3D video rendering. I still run SL on my old PC. My old Gateway PC has an AMD Pheonom 11 X4 810 quad core with a new Nvidia Geforce 650 TI Boost and 8 gigs of ram. It runs SL at high with shadows, at around 39 fps. I originally paid about $550 for it with cheap Radeon integrated graphics. So, I'm just saying, you don't need to pay alot to get something decent for SL.

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

So, I'm just saying, you don't need to pay alot to get something decent for SL.

 

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I know and I know you know I know. (Re-reads that sentence to make sure I got it right.)  As you know, my bottleneck is in finding a prebuilt system with Win7.  You know all the other specifics. *Smiles*

As an update to the last time we communicated, I accidentally ran across a BUNCH of videos on YouTube saying NEVER buy a PC from iBUYPOWER, reasons ranging from horrible customer service to the parts being used, etc.  Other people posting here have had great experiences!  Arrrrggghhh..

Another idea that dawned on me last night - there is a company in town that sells refurbished PCs, mostly from businesses who buy new PCs yearly.  If I could find a Win7 PC, I could gradually upgrade the parts.  They also repair PCs so if there was a problem I know where to find them.

[Qie Niangao]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

[...] I wouldn't be building my own PC. It's just not worth the time or energy. You might save $50 bucks, if you are lucky. Plus, many people go cheap in all the wrong places, causing bottle necks in their system.

 

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Last time I got a new machine (maybe 6 months ago), I tried to find a manufacturer that offered enough customizability to make this work.  I mean, it used to be possible, but I finally gave up and built from scratch, ordering everything from Newegg. To get close to what I wanted from the brand names, I would have had to spend several hundred dollars more, with no way to trim back over-engineering "in all the wrong places."

I did learn one thing about building a system in Canada: it really matters whence the parts ship. Such a pain to sit for a week waiting for one piece from California to make it through customs, when I could have chosen a near-equivalent that shipped from this side of the border. Doh.

[Medhue Simoni]

There are always going to be exceptions. There just is not much to a computer tho. You need a case, a motherboard, a processor, some ram, a hard drive, an operating system, a graphics card, and a power supply. They are now selling PCs with no dvd drives. People can argue about all the parts and what is better or worse, but in the end, there just isn't much to it all. I prefer to let the name brands deal with matching up parts, as I have better things to do. What I do is look at those parts, that they put together, and ask, can I use this, and is this a deal? What do I need? What can I easily change? Is the case standard, and how easy is it to work with?

If we are talking a normal SL user, or creator, that just wants to be able to see all the beauties of SL, than the person needs a mid level cpu, alot of ram, and a mid to high graphics card. Most of today's cpus can easily handle SL. With brand names, the bottle neck is usually in the graphics cards. So, the easiest thing to do is to find a name brand with a decent cpu, and as much ram as possible. Bam! 500 bucks and I have a brand new PC that is twice as fast as something I got 5 years ago. Get a $100-$200 graphics card that meets whatever level you want to be at, and BAM you have a decent gaming machine. No fuss!

Plus, time is money. If it takes me days and weeks to find or get parts, and more to deal with making sure they all match up, I'd hardly say that is efficient use of my time, besides breaking something and being screwed. When I goto a store, I know it all works, and it takes less than an hour to pick 1 out. When I get home, I drop in a new graphics card and plug it in. If you are an SL merchant, you are already creating on new faster machine and selling items before the custom PC guy even picks out his case.

If you want to know about parts, I watch this awesome Youtube channel.