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GingerHenderson

Marketplace Scam - Beware!

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Given the review dates on the two items in question I would think that they are re-lists of ones that were pulled previously. Could that not be grounds for having the store shut down and this person removed?

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Seems the scamers has returned. This time in a way i havent seen before... They created a shop called VISTA ANIMATIONS in marketplace, the avatar that has created it is "Vista Barns"...

 

They use my Ao descriptions and piuctures and sells them at half Price anounced as SUMMER PROMO. Unvelivable...

 

I have purchased one and received an empty box.

 

This people is everiday worst.

 

Reported via AR, DMCA and tagged ítems on MP.

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Vista Barnes wrote:

Seems the scamers has returned. This time in a way i havent seen before... They created a shop called VISTA ANIMATIONS in marketplace, the avatar that has created it is "Vista Barns"...

 

They use my Ao descriptions and piuctures and sells them at half Price anounced as SUMMER PROMO. Unvelivable...

 

I have purchased one and received an empty box.

 

This people is everiday worst.

 

Reported via AR, DMCA and tagged ítems on MP.

OMG !!!!! i just saw it ... im speechless :smileyfrustrated:

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the date of birth of the avi is only may 27th 2013.

and it seems to be a direct attack against you since they used a name closed to yours. and they have only your items..

i just cant imagine how you feel right now... awwww... you have all my sympathy and my best feelings.. This is really awfull.. i really hope LL will shut down this account really soon. If you need any support, do not hesitate to say.. if there is anything i can do, i will do it without any pb.... 

This shouldnt exist... such nefariousness always amazes me... it should exist...but sadly it does...

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

and it seems to be a direct attack against you since they used a name closed to yours. and they have only your items..

Not necessarily. The thief can't have created an account with Vista Barns as its name, because it can't get a last name. So it's just using the Vista Barns name in the marketplace to sell empty boxes that pretend to have Vista's animations in them. The thief may also use other names to sell empty boxes purporting to be other people's stuff, so it may not be specifically against Vista.

As long as the only things being sold are empty boxes, then the thief is only stealing from buyers, and Vista's only problem is when replying to people who contact him saying that the box was empty.

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Of course he has. Leave out the space between name and surname and you get the right one.
Plus, his fakes are still up on the marketplace. Including pics and descriptions stolen from the real Vista Barnes.

 

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I haven't seen it. Vista Barnes posted that the thief is calling himself Vista Barns - with a space between the names. That's what I'm going by.

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so....correct me if I am wrong, but does this mean anyone can just open a store with the same name as someone else and just sell empty boxes? 

Mind = BLOWN! - How is it LL even allow this to happen?

Is this even DMCA-a-ble, since no real copying of items has taken place.

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well even if the box are empty, he s stealing the store name, the creators name, all descriptions, items names and pics... and its a big harm on Vista's fame.

So i guess that LL can only take the DMCA as serious.

The dishonesty and the bad purpose are here more than obvious

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I guess the Images used might come under DMCA. Lets hope!

 

But I still think it would be better for everyone if:

 

1 - LL Disabled downloading the MP pics to hard drive. Just like some imaging websites.

 

2 - LL Made it so (just like avatar names) you cant set up a store with EXACTLY the same name as an existing MP business. Is that really so hard?!?!

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Yes, anyone can do that. But it's theft/fraud (stealing from buyers), and I really don't think that LL will allow people to sell empty boxes in that way. But their hands are a bit tied because they made something of a pig's ear when they created the marketplace. They made it so that anyone can set up a 'store' without any verification of what they are selling. They decided to leave the policing/reporting of wrongdoers to the users. Unfortunately, users lose their money with frauds like this one, before they realise that it's a fraud and report it, and I really don't think that LL will refund the money, even though LL took a cut of it.

The whole thing is just another of LL's many incompetences

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Yes, anyone can do that. But it's theft/fraud (stealing from buyers), and I really don't think that LL will allow people to sell empty boxes in that way. But their hands are a bit tied because they made something of a pig's ear when they created the marketplace. They made it so that anyone can set up a 'store' without any verification of what they are selling. They decided to leave the policing/reporting of wrongdoers to the users. Unfortunately, users lose their money with frauds like this one, before they realise that it's a fraud and report it, and I really don't think that LL will refund the money, even though LL took a cut of it.

The whole thing is just another of LL's many incompetences

"Unfortunately, users lose their money with frauds like this one, before they realise that it's a fraud and report it, and I really don't think that LL will refund the money, even though LL took a cut of it."

 

This is obvious fraud, especially if the boxes are empty. 

It is also one of the reasons why, and I know Merchants and others may not like my saying this, there shouldn't be Instant cash outs.  While cash outs should be quick and dependable so people can plan accordingly, a 48 hour delay would not be unreasonable.  Linden Lab would be able to retrieve and return the $L would little to no trouble.

Linden Lab needs to get the person power in place to both handle fraud reports and to process cash outs quickly and efficiently.  Then everything from start to finish would run more smoothly and securely.

One other thought. I'm wondering if the reason the boxes are empty is because LL responded to Vista's original DCMA and the stolen animations have been taken down.  Though in that case I might expect to see the "IP Replacement" in the box.

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Well what you describve there it's so true and it's a  plague.It happened also to a Japanese Friend that I know they took his items from store and  put them on marketplace. the thiefs were also so dumb to use the original photos like in this case with a real rough edit on it prolly done with windows paint ( it must have been really a child or a bad lame judjng by the edit they did on photos still recognizable as from the original maker).

1) If you own a store to avoid that this could happen I suggest you to use in your vendors scripts that connect it to a central distributor away from the store area.

2) Another trick would be to do what I call the Chinese boxes trick: it would consist in putting the box of your items in another box ad them in the vendor.

Both those tricks will prevent lamers with lame hacked viewer from taking your items from your vendors rezzed in store.

They can still do it though from private residents hanging around who bought items and worn them.

If you watch the youtube and you are a youtuber or fan of video you could see how those braggers are now doing several criminal activities like the one you describe.They are also so dumb to make videos of their crimes like those streets pirates who make you risk to die and make videos of their movie to post on youtube.

Possible solutions?

Idk if there are some really working least it would be really hard to stop this pehnomenous but it could be a way to make  life for those bandits harder.

Actually meshes are a pain in the ass for many of those thiefs, for the simple reason that those kids ( in many cases they must be kids) can't get a pay info on account . This is the reason what they really would scream and go wildly crazy when the product they attempt to copy is a mesh .

Maybe this could be a solution if extended also to other kind of uploads such as animations ( like in your case) or shapes, hair sculpts , textures...

I mean  in other words there is no way to stop them from stealing, but we could fight them in another way, forcing them to come out with real identities to upload as they should do for meshes.

I see on marketplace also tools that you might install in your parcel to detect residents on illegal viewers. but I don't know if they really would do their job. As personal experience I can tell yuo that we installed one of those tools  to keep away griefers residents in  my friend's parcel but my friend got griefed the same with lots of prims rezzed on the parcel even if rezz was not allowed. I avoid to say the brand here to not defame the maker , but  that tools and any other tool like that  couldn't really safeguard your store.

This means that those tools don't do their job or that, as it is shown on some youtube video, they can use spoofing features on their viewer making appear good what it is not.

 



 

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

It is also one of the reasons why, and I know Merchants and others may not like my saying this, there shouldn't be Instant cash outs.

No creator needs instant cash-outs. They (we) only need to plan a few days in advance if having the cash either in the account or in the bank is going to be necessary.

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

It is also one of the reasons why, and I know Merchants and others may not like my saying this, there shouldn't be Instant cash outs.

No creator needs instant cash-outs. They (we) only need to plan a few days in advance if having the cash either in the account or in the bank is going to be necessary.

Well, it's not really about need, and instant cashout doesn't have much to do with this. Instant cashouts doesn't imply there are no restrictions. They would only be done for established merchants that have a long record of completely legit transactions and little to no complaints. LL would be idiots to just allows some newbie to cashout instantly. So, my point is that instant cashouts would not help a scammer. To be clear on my opinion tho, I can accept a 2 day wait for cashouts, but going beyond that is not a good thing for the economy. Any kind of bottle neck effects the economy in negative ways.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

It is also one of the reasons why, and I know Merchants and others may not like my saying this, there shouldn't be Instant cash outs.

No creator needs instant cash-outs. They (we) only need to plan a few days in advance if having the cash either in the account or in the bank is going to be necessary.

Well, it's not really about need, and instant cashout doesn't have much to do with this. Instant cashouts doesn't imply there are no restrictions. They would only be done for established merchants that have a long record of completely legit transactions and little to no complaints. LL would be idiots to just allows some newbie to cashout instantly. So, my point is that instant cashouts would not help a scammer. To be clear on my opinion tho, I can accept a 2 day wait for cashouts, but going beyond that is not a good thing for the economy. Any kind of bottle neck effects the economy in negative ways.

I agree that the Risk API should take into account a persons "track record."

Two days also protects you in the event your account gets hacked however unlikely that may be.

When I was in retail sales I used to have people get indignant with me when I'd ask for ID when accepting a check, as if I was questioning their honesty.  And while yes the primary reason for asking was to protect my business, the secondary thing it did was protect them also. 

What is absolutely needful is that it is consistent so you can plan accordingly.  You shouldn't be left in the dark not knowing with every cash out how long it will take.

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then @ Medhue,Perrie and Phil    wouldn't it be better, as I said above, to restrict the ability to build and sell to people that could be tracked by pay info  on account? if they want to upload they must be trackable and as consequence  punishable.

actually building meshes is worth of it for the simple reason that those bad people with bad viewrers couldn't upload what they steal cause pay info are required. I'd ask LL to extend this to all the uploads of any sort also for picks.

Pay info must be required also to sell/or openng a store. Austerity is the key

They can put a photo in their profile but not upload  texture, sculpt maps, animations sounds and so on without pay info on file  same as it is already happening for meshes.

Who would risk if FBI, RIA or cops could ring your bell? They would surely lose any interest in doing these crminal actions.

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Astrid Kaufmat wrote:

then @ Medhue,Perrie and Phil    wouldn't it be better, as I said above, to restrict the ability to build and sell to people that could be tracked by
pay info  on account
? if they want to upload they must be
trackable
and as consequence
  punishable.


Nope, it would not be better.

And actually, the ability for law enforcement to track anyone who cashes out already exists because they have to link to a legitimate place for the cash to go now. 

But to require it to upload, etc, it would hurt too many who build for personal pleasure.

 

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It would definitely not be preferable to prevent anyone from building and uploading. What would be excellent, imo, is to restrict selling in the marketplace to either premium accounts or to those who have PIOF.

The scam of this thread is allowed to happen because absolutely anyone can sell in the marketplace, and LL only learns about each scam after one or more users have lost money. Anyone can open an account today, and have a scam 'store' running in the marketplace minutes later. It's LL's fault.

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Me, I just don't like inhibiting others. 1 of the biggest appeals that SL had to me, is/was a completely free market, where any1 could get involved. Maybe restricting uploads is the right move, but I'm not sure that's going to fly considering it's been open to all for this long now. In many ways, I see Phil's point about the Marketplace, and I don't see it as an overbearing hurdle to be a merchant. If LL accepted more payment options, for those that don't want to deal with banks, I'd feel much more comfortable about restrictions to uploads and the Marketplace. To me, banks are evil, and I never let them hold more than a couple hundred dollars of my money. If LL paid out, and accept gold and silver, or maybe even bitcoin, I'd love them.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Me, I just don't like inhibiting others. 1 of the biggest appeals that SL had to me, is/was a completely free market, where any1 could get involved. Maybe restricting uploads is the right move, but I'm not sure that's going to fly considering it's been open to all for this long now. In many ways, I see Phil's point about the Marketplace, and I don't see it as an overbearing hurdle to be a merchant. If LL accepted more payment options, for those that don't want to deal with banks, I'd feel much more comfortable about restrictions to uploads and the Marketplace. To me, banks are evil, and I never let them hold more than a couple hundred dollars of my money. If LL paid out, and accept gold and silver, or maybe even bitcoin, I'd love them.

In the big picture of things, when we consider how many items are for sale on the Market Place and how many Merchants there are, we do have to ask the question, "What percentage is stolen?"

I don't mean to minimalize the problem, but we get the idea that the problem is massive when well known, high profile creators such as Truth Hair or Vista Animations have their work illegally copied and sold on the Market.  But that is only a tiny percentage of the total number of products on the Market Place.

The reason I find this cure, PIOF on file or being Premium problematic is that it can hurt honest Merchants who are unable to do this.  One of my best friends in SL is in this position.  I know where they live and what their personal situation is and several of us have treid to find a way for them to get PIOF and have been unable to.  They support their SL with their work.  Everything they earn gets reinvested in SL.  Cutting them off from the Market Place would dampen their SL.

They may actually be one of yours and Vista's customers because they buy and use a lot of animations in their art work! 

So the question is do we have any more right to say, "it sucks to be them" than to say it "sucks to be Vista or Truth or who have you?"

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