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Marketplace Scam - Beware!


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I have been taken for 900 L$ this morning and have files a Abuse against this user/store. Also Flag it and left a negative comment on it. As well the item that was advertised was the same item I got from the proper owner. THey also filed a Abuse and flagged.

Just saw that someone else got scamed after the fact. When will this end? Till this scammer is a milionaire?

Where is the Rule of law here in SL?

If all sign points to problems and the culprits gets away with it, then it leaves the door open for more and more.

Anyone know of more effective measures to Black List or Block specific Users/Store when all points that there are definately issues?

Certainly not good for Second Life if there is a free for all for criminals and no real way to make them pay.

Even if it all they would do is to at the least Ban them.

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Ginger, SID is probably right about the copybotting, as this picture indicates:

vista.JPG

You've been here almost a year. I don't know how much time you spend inworld. After my first year I don't believe I'd heard about copybotting, and I'm pretty sure I had not heard of Vista Animations, either (although it is an extremely well-known and well thought of company). It is pretty clear from the image that someone is offering to sell a Vista creation at a very reduced price. Not surprising that you got nothing for your money.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt I started with: maybe you'd never heard of copybotting. Maybe you'd never heard of Vista Animations.

There's just this one little thing that bothers me, see? After being here for almost a year, you'd actually buy an animation package, sight unseen, untested, and completely unknown to you, from the Marketplace? I've never ever bought any dance or animation I hadn't actually tried.

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If you knew about those AO's you would know they are copy only.  There is no way they can be sold by anyone other than the original creator. 

Flagging will do no good to stop this.  Notify the creators of the content what is going on so they can file a DMCA notice which LL is required to receive before they take any action.

BTW - remove the store name from  your post.  It is against the rules of the forum to name and shame and you can get in trouble yourself for doing that.

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I am promoting copybothing? If they LL  keep for months the same user/store out and cannot police these themselves then mayber LL is also profiting from them. Was not me that I am trying to protect, the new users actually. Someone needs to say enough is enough and find ways to get rid of these things

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I did try it first at the store before, then looked up the name in the marketplace and my mistake was that I did not notice the user/store was different till it was too late so I admit it was not wise in my part. But the point I am making is nothing to do with me but the fatc that it is still there for months doing this.

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Flagging will do no good to stop this.  Notify the creators of the content what is going on so they can file a DMCA notice which LL is required to receive before they take any action.BTW - remove the store name from  your post.  It is against the rules of the forum to name and shame and you can get in trouble yourself for doing that

 As I previously stated, I am only trying to make LL take actions against crimes happening within their environment. So what you are saying is criminals here in Second Life are protected and can keep on going? But I could be banned from putting their name clear to try to protect anyone?

 I challenge ALL Members, Citizens to do the same. We need a Shame list of these criminals.

BTW-My post will stand, if I am banished because of the fact that I am making a stand that enough is enough,  Second Life will loose a valued citizen.

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Well as Amethyst said, if you dont remove the merchant name from the tittle of your thread and from your OP, im afraid your thread will last long.. It will be soon removed by mods.

ive first thought it could be a limited item sold as a used item.. so a second hand one.. but after inspecting the page, its listed as unlimited. So yes, it can only be a scam.

and as said Amethyst too (but this, you couldnt know if you are not a regular customer from them) the Vista AOs are sold as copy no trans.

Vista is a well known SL company and if you warned the owner i guess he will have ways to be heard by LL. 

So if you told him, he will do what he has to do.. This is the only thing you had to do : warn him...

Then i guess naming and shaming here is a lil extra for you.. but this wont make you get back your money and youll get a "nice" email from the forum's moderators for breaking the rules.. nothing more.

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Not in the buyer's defense, but there is a portion of SL residents that don't think about copy/mod/trans permissions when buying things. I do, but I've been around a while. I recently ran across a yard sale with a few well known creator's items. I checked them out and they were from gotcha machines, so they were transfer items. How many people in SL would know to think of this though?

 

Always buyer beware, but when shopping on Marketplace, I think we have a large group of shoppers that don't know brands and prices and permissions well enough to make wiser decisions. They simply trust that it's ok if it's on LL's website.

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LL will not take action unless the creator of the item that has been illegally copied files a complaint. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong in regard to the following, but being ripped off likely falls under the category of a resident to resident dispute, with which LL does not usually get involved. They are not condoning illegal activity, they state that they cannot get involved with resident to resident disputes because there are THOUSANDS of such disputes, some minor, some major and they intercede in TOS and community standards violations only, otherwise they steer clear.

Buyer beware has always been the order of the day when purchasing items, land, or services in SL. Leave a negative marketplace review, tell your friends, send group notices to get the word out, that is about all you can do.

As for your refusal to follow the forum rules ...

"BTW-My post will stand, if I am banished because of the fact that I am making a stand that enough is enough,  Second Life will loose a valued citizen."


Your post is essentially a complaint about someone not following what you feel should be a rule, yet you blatantly refuse to comply with the rules of the forum. How does a blatant disregard for rules LL has in place make you a valued citizen?

Imagine if we could all post whatever negative opinions we wanted about merchants and landlords in SL? Competitors could set out to ruin perfectly good, legitimate businesses with slander and the forums would be far more compative than they generally are. 

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oh well, this person has other items from other creators.. saying they are limited but they are settled as unlimited and not in the "used item" category...

maybe this person doesnt know... obviously according to the review and her feed you are not the only one who has been trapped..

i think you should fill an abuse report to try to get your money back... and someone should maybe contact this person to tell her the right way to do, if its a mistake (just if...)

She's french, so ill try to send a nc to this person later in the day.

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I don't care about the money, I get a coffee that cost more than that.  Point was that this is hapening and that the Store/User is not banned. Over 3 months.

Too bad that they will ban this post or anything consturctive about pointing out criminals.

I did contact the staff at the owner himself. They took action as i previously stated.

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BTW-My post will stand, if I am banished because of the fact that I am making a stand that enough is enough,  Second Life will loose a valued citizen.

Ginger, I think I understand how many folks, not just you, could have been taken-in by this, so doing your best to get the situation addressed is a good deed.

The thing is, these particular forums aren't the best place to "name and shame." Whether that's good or bad doesn't really matter, it's just how it is here. Importantly, however, there are other places where we're free to discuss scams and other bad behavior and name names. Those other forums are really where folks go expecting to find that information now, so it's more effective posting this sort of thing on those sites anyway.

Try not to expect this forum to be more or better than it is, nor to be disappointed when such expectations aren't met. This forum is just not worth getting that worked-up about.

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GingerHenderson wrote:

I am promoting copybothing? If they LL  keep for months the same user/store out and cannot police these themselves then mayber LL is also profiting from them. Was not me that I am trying to protect, the new users actually. Someone needs to say enough is enough and find ways to get rid of these things

LL  can't get involved until the creator gets involved and files..

LL has no idea if they are affiliates or copybotters until the original creator  files a claim and LL is informed..

so contacting the creator as soon as possible will help more people from being scammed than anything..

LL doesn't know who owns what in this world..not until they are made aware of who those owners actually are.. 

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Ginger, it's not about winning or losing. Lucretia gave you the truth. If you visited the Vista store Inworld, then you received a warning right at their store about people trying to scam payments while purchasing right at their store. You can't miss the warning on your screen. That being said, I would be leary of buying anything on the Marketplace when a store is telling you customers can be scammed out of their money. Sorry this happened to you but you are only receiving normal replies to your post.

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Thing is Ginger, on here we are all just contributors and Second Life residents, like you. We don't have any say in what happens, we can only advise what the TOS/rules say and advise you on what you can do to speed up the process.

 

As far as I know Vista Barnes hasn't been online today to chase up the reporting that he will have to make to LL (as the intellectual property owner) but you CAN rest assured that the hundreds of people who have read this thread will know to steer clear of the seller in question in the meantime. Some may have contacted Vista independently to make sure he is aware of what is going on. Another forum member said they would be contacting the seller directly incase they weren't aware that what they are doing is wrong (yep I know, common sense teaches us right from wrong but not all people are the same).

 

It is buyer beware yes,  just as it is in RL (the number of times I have been stung on Ebay for example is a joke).

Citizens have rights yes, but not in all cases. If you receive stolen goods in RL, albeit innocently, you dont get your money back and your lose the items, law enforcement investigates and if they have absolute proof that a crime has been commited the criminal is prosecuted.

In this case LL is law enforcement, Vista is the rightful owner of the property and you are the innocent victim. I know it sucks, it's not want you want to hear and I do feel bad for you.

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GingerHenderson wrote:

So let me summarize my experience so far to this lesson to make sure I got it straight...
It's buyer beware in SL..Check-
Yes, much like rl
.
.Citizens don't have any rights in SL..Check..
No, incorrect, actions taken depends entirely on the situation at hand
.
and
most important of all, crime really does pay in SL..Check.
Not entirely true.. This is no different from rl. Some people will benefit from the misfortunes of others. Some people will benefit from scamming, stealing, and all that nasty stuff, too. Why you think sl couldn't possibly have these same problems is beyond me. It is after all humans running these avs.

Am I missing anything else?

 

Bolding mine..

Yes you are missing something. You're missing that you are not alone, this sort of stuff happens. You're missing all the wonderful advice given to you. You're missing the fact that continually trying to put words in the posts of others that were never there in the first place makes you look as if you're not actually looking for a solution at all. You're missing a very important lesson all parents should teach their kids. That would be the old "two wrongs don't make a right". That includes both serious issues and not serious ones(by whatever standards you choose to judge). You will never gain any sympathy from people when it comes to others breaking TOS when you do so yourself. Sorry, but, that's life.

You're also missing the fact that, at least some of us, have said we are truly sorry you are going through this. Most likely because it's happened to a lot of us before. The fact of the matter is you've been given wonderful advice, you're simply choosing not to accept it. The lab rarely looks at these forums and even when they do, they reply even less. Which is why people tell you to file an abuse report. Your AR on this person will probably actually serve no purpose at all. Only because you're not the original creator. We do have rules when it comes to that kind of reporting. Those rules make perfect sense, when you don't tie in your own personal experiences. They're in place for protection, ours and the creator's. Much like many rl laws can be put in place to protect us, no matter how stupid they sound. Even in those cases, people will still break those laws. LL is no more capable of controlling what every resident does than your own town, city, state, country, whatever have you.

Being utterly frustrated and pissed off at the situation doesn't mean you too get to break TOS. It also doesn't mean your complaints aren't valid, either. They very much are. I hate when people get ripped off, personally, and it happens. I hate it even more when they're given advice and rather than taking it, thanking the people that offered the help, they continue to rant and rave and throw a verbal tantrum. In an attempt to negate anything said. I do know what fuels such actions and why people get so angry in their posts, I would just rather see people actually taking the advice given and not shooting it all down. Sometimes it's theraputic to complain. Sometimes it's not. I'm pretty sure this is turning into one of the times it's not. These threads CAN be very helpful, for a lot of people, in many cases. In this case, if you continue to get more and more hostile in your posts, this thread won't be one of the helpful sort. There are a lot more people that read here than ever post. You have to take that into consideration too.

 

 

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Yes i call it an experience and I am much better now from it all. Thanks for all the adivice and sorry for my ranting.

Have also contacted another seller that had the same Scam artist falsely selling their items. They where not aware.

I will continue to inform merchants if I keep encoutering simillar issues in the future. After all there are lots hard working honest merchants that do the right thing to earn their L$. :)

Lil steps to a beter SL experience.

Again thanks for all your help.

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The 'ranting' is totally understandable, it's better to get it out than let it fester and and make us angrier. No-one likes to be used or made a fool of or exploited. At the end of the day, though you have a monetary loss, that person has showed themselves to be inferior in the most important way. You have warned others and taken all the steps you can to see that this person can not do it to others. I hope you take some solice in the fact you have probably prevented others being fooled, while due process takes it's course.

 

xx

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ok so ive send a polite nc in french to this person

pointing her the fact her items must be "used items" and limited one and explaining how they must be listed..

she was offline and since then i had no answer

i dont have a lot of hope its a mistake bec she has 2 posts on her feed saying to her shes a theft and those are not recent posts and her profile text is not saying great things btw..

but well at least she wont be able to say she doesnt know now.

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Oh, I quite agree. If you are an honest person, you expect other people to be honest also. That tendency is one of the things that make con artists and scammers so much money, but we've just got to know that and live with it.

I wasn't accusing the OP of anything, I just found the sequence odd. She has since explained that she did actually try the AO at an inworld Vista store and only hit the one she bought on the MP because she searched by name. Given that the seller used the original name for the product I can understand how that might happen.

And to Ginger, I see from an earlier post that you have decided to notifiy the original creators about the fact their products are being improperly sold on the MP. That is exactly the right thing to do.

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