OPEN PETITON REINTRODUCTION OF EXCHANGE COMPANIES IN SECOND LIFE

[oberon Zuta]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

 

Registering as a money service business might help persuade LL to reach a particular decision about what it will or won't permit someone to do,  but can't force  LL to permit anyone to do anything,  at least not that I can see.

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and this is the description in the actual ToS:

 

5.3 There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged.

Third party exchanges are not authorized by Linden Lab and Buying or Selling Linden dollars on third party exchanges are not authorized transactions. Third party exchanges are wholly distinct from both the LindeX exchange and Linden Lab and they have no affiliation with Linden Lab. We do not endorse or otherwise guarantee the legitimacy of the Linden dollar transfers offered on them, and we are not liable for purchases of such Linden dollars. Buying or Selling Linden dollars anywhere other than the LindeX is done so solely at your own risk. If you Buy Linden dollars that are traced to unauthorized credit card activity or other fraudulent activity, we will recoup these Linden dollars from your Account. The only authorized exchange is the LindeX.

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especially this sentence is important:

We do not endorse or otherwise guarantee the legitimacy of the Linden dollar transfers offered on them, and we are not liable for purchases of such Linden dollars. Buying or Selling Linden dollars anywhere other than the LindeX is done so solely at your own risk.

 

LindenLab dont say that they Lindendollars you buy at TPE'  dont accept and that it is forbidden to sell or buy L$. NO - they say that there are other players on market:

 

5.3 There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged.

But they say, that LindenLab dont have to accept this L$.

Only in case of fraudulent activity (especially unauthorized CC's activities), will LindeLab recoup the L$ from your account.

But - if the TPE is registered as MSB, then is the possibillity/danger of closing the service on criminal reason little.

Linden Lab is not registred as MSB right now ... neither (for example) Podex.info or Anshex.com, the two activ playing actors.

Finally is it not forbidden to trade with Lindendollars. But if someone do, he probably fall under the discussed LAW and must probably be registred as MSB.

But if i could buy L$ without Credit Card by LindeX, i will do it.

[Innula Zenovka]

Yes, I know what the new terms of service say, but I also know that LL has been emailing the third party exchanges, or so the exchanges say, telling them that they have to close. 

I don't understand why LL seem to say one thing in the ToS and another in their blog post and their emails to the exchanges, but all the TPEs seem to have been told by LL they have to close.

[Afrodite Sands]

Second life will be history soon, as many residents will abandon their privatly owned land now because they have no means of buying virtual currencies anymore.

It was fun while it lasted, but fun is a luxury we are not supposed to experience anymore.

Many virtual real estate companies will lose almost half of their customers due to these changes.

3rd party money exchange services will need to seek other means of income, since they will lose their business despite the fact that they have invested thousands of dollars in their formarly legal business.

Instead of punishing the big banks like HSBC for moneylaundering the common people will have to pay again.

Thank you , Treasury department, for ruining an entire economy and for supporting major banks who support terrorist organisations and terrorist-friendly governments all over the world.I guess we now know who our real enemies are.

People of the USA, i can not understand why you cope with these criminal government anymore. You are not free, you are all slaves!!You should all pick up your guns, and head over to the treasury department to demand your freedom back, as your founding fathers meant it to be!

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

 

I don't understand why LL seem to say one thing in the ToS and another in their blog post and their emails to the exchanges,

 

you are not the only one to not understand lol.... and just try to fig what it is for sm1 who is not native english speaker lol... 

but well however, its a big sport for the brain lol..... or maybe ive lost a lot of neurons bec of all this mess hehehheheh

[Abigail Merlin]

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Afrodite Sands wrote:

Second life will be history soon, as many residents will abandon their privatly owned land now because they have no means of buying virtual currencies anymore.

 

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The same was said with the gambeling ban, banking ban and openspace fiasco, yet we are still here and this is having a far smaller effect then the earlier things judging by the amount of L$ actualy being cashed out, the limit sell orders are stable at 247 L$/$ and orders are filled in 4 to 5 days like usualy.

My renters are also still paying their rent as normal

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Afrodite Sands wrote:

Second life will be history soon, as many residents will abandon their privatly

owned

land now because they have no means of buying virtual currencies anymore.

It was fun while it lasted, but fun is a luxury we are not supposed to experience anymore.

Just like it was history when LL stopped subsidizing the VAT?

Many virtual real estate companies will lose almost half of their customers due to these changes.

On what do you base this assertion?  I haven't seen anyone but Eutopeans complain about this issue and Euro's don't make up half the population of SL.  Even if they did, all the ones I know have PIOF with LL and have no plans on leaving SL.  LL is also apparently taking steps to allow some TPE's to resume business.  See this post on the 

VirWox

website: "Linden Lab has approached us with a potential solution that would allow us to serve our customers within the bounds of the updated Second Life Terms of Service. We are in discussions with them and look forward to being able to share more information very soon."

3rd party money exchange services will need to seek other means of income, since they will lose their business despite the fact that they have invested thousands of dollars in their formarly legal business.

TPE's had access to the information about the pending regulations for months prior to the new regulations going into effect as they were published on the web for all to see and comment on.  Setting up a simple alert on Google would have warned them. 

If they don't keep up with pending regulations that effect their business it is hardly anyone's fault but their own. 

I was aware of this long ago because I make the effort to keep up.  

Instead of punishing the big banks like HSBC for moneylaundering the common people will have to pay again.

In December of 2012, HSBC was severely sanctioned in the US for money laundering to the tune of $1.9 BILLION dollars and was forced to agree to a whole laundry list of things to prevent them from doing it again.  Here

Deferred Prosecution Agreement

containing the findings of the investigation by the Treasury Dept and the remedial measures that were imposed on them in addition to the fines. If they slip up in the slightest they face automatic full prosecution which probably result in jail time and even larger fines that would be ruinous.   I hardly call that supportive.

Thank you , Treasury department, for ruining an entire economy and for supporting major banks who support terrorist organisations and terrorist-friendly governments all over the world.I guess we now know who our real enemies are.

The Treasury department has not ruined any economies.  If you want to blame someone, you should blame the money launderers who have been using virtual currency exchanges to launder money making these regulations necessary.  The fact that Treasury has taken these steps shows that the US does not support this as you assert.

People of the USA, i can not understand why you cope with these criminal government anymore. You are not free, you are all slaves!!You should all pick up your guns, and head over to the treasury department to demand your freedom back, as your founding fathers meant it to be!

As a citizen of the US, I won't be taking up arms.  While the US is not perfect by far, Americans are some of the most free people in the world.  If that were not so we wouldn't have millions of people trying to sneak in as illegal immigrants every year and millions more immigrating legally.  Immigration from Germany alone totaled more than half a million people in 2000 alone, the 2000 census shows, and was most certainly higher due to illegal immigrants not counted in the census.  While I do not agree with every decision the government makes I am glad I am a citizen as are the approximately 1 million immigrants a year who become new citizens.

 

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 I DO feel sympathy for those that have been caught in a bind over the changes.  But it is early yet and it looks like LL is taking steps to mitigate the damage.

I understand your anger, but I think you should take a break from SL if you are so obsessed by it that you feel the need to make false allegations and call for armed insurrection against a democratically elected goverment.

Edited to add: After posting this I just received a notice in world from the vendor system I use that was able to take RL currency instead of L's has also been approached by LL to negotiate a compliant means so they can resume this operation.

[Fruitbat Oh]

Anshex and Podex now closed as well -

European anti-moneylaundering regulations are stronger than the recently introduced US ones - and euro exchanges already had to abide by them .

 

[Innula Zenovka]

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Fruitbat Oh wrote:

Anshex and Podex now closed as well -

European anti-moneylaundering regulations are stronger than the recently introduced US ones - and euro exchanges already had to abide by them .

 

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I asked Alex Kadochnikov, who has a particular research interest in the regulation of virtual currencies, about this, and he thinks, though he isn't sure, that it looks as if EU-based exchanges will need to register with the US authorities as well as their local ones, if they deal direct with US customers.

[oberon Zuta]

It is really bad - now, the only possibillity to earn L$ is to do escort service - but i guess it is not allowed in USA hehehe.

Congratulation Amethyst Jetaime! You won! I can hear your laugh over the pond. And my thoughts are - how silly must an individual be to act like her. Maybe i report them about infringment against racisms law. She called europians whiners and complainers instead to bring a solution - what will LL think aubout her proposal to kill the europians in SL? This is extremism. Who is she? Can she be a femal?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

/me used to be an escort and then discovered that scripting is far more fun and considerably more lucrative, too.. just saying...

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Well i really dont think Amethyst is guilty for LL decisions...

she s a resident like you and me and she only said her opinions about what is happening.. i dont think there is smth wrong with that.... 

Linden labs are the ones who manage their own company and SL.... Residents doesnt have this power. 

And governments are the one who make the laws... Companies dont.

[Dillon Levenque]

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oberon Zuta wrote:

It is really bad - now, the only possibillity to earn L$ is to do escort service - but i guess it is not allowed in USA hehehe.

Congratulation Amethyst Jetaime! You won! I can hear your laugh over the pond. And my thoughts are - how silly must an individual must be to act like her. Maybe i report them about infringment against racisms law. She called europians whiners and complainers instead to bring a solution - what will LL think aubout her proposal to kill the europians in SL? This is extremism. Who is she? Can she be a femal?

 

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I did have a slight amount of sympathy for  you. You were way over the top in your first comments elsewhere in this forum but it seemed as though you were becoming more reasonable. That sympathy has now vanished.

Nowhere in Amethyst's recent post did she call anyone a whiner or complainer. She said the only people she'd seen complaining were Europeans and added that most of the Europeans she personally knows have PIOF anyway (and thus were probably NOT complaining, other than about LL's delay in cashouts).

Nowhere did she say anything about killing the europeans in SL or anything like it. You should be ashamed of yourself for writing that.

Whether Amethyst or anyone else is a female or male in RL is none of your damned business.

And by the way, the legality of prostitution in the United States is a local issue, not a national issue.

[oberon Zuta]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

Well i really dont think Amethyst is guilty for LL decisions...

she s a resident like you and me and she only said her opinions about what is happening.. i dont think there is smth wrong with that.... 

Linden labs are the ones who manage their own company and SL.... Residents doesnt have this power. 

And governments are the one who make the laws... Companies dont.

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Trinity - i dont say that Amethyst is guilty for decision of LL. I say she or he is guilty for her opinion that europeans are whiners and complainers. And this to hear if u see to loos your connection to all you bought in SL and to your friends here and u have no possibillity to keep staying as u are familiar with in SL - what will you think about such a person others than that she is rude, arrogant and ingnorant?

Even she say that not 50% are europians in Sl and that they can go - SL will loos nothing. I will see a CEO surviving a reduction of revenue of 10% - not to talk about 50% - it is simply a silly statement.

 

I dont talk about facts - i talk about her or his opinion.

[Perrie Juran]

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oberon Zuta wrote:

It is really bad - now, the only possibillity to earn L$ is to do escort service - but i guess it is not allowed in USA hehehe.

Congratulation Amethyst Jetaime! You won! I can hear your laugh over the pond. And my thoughts are - how silly must an individual must be to act like her. Maybe i report them about infringment against racisms law. She called europians whiners and complainers instead to bring a solution - what will LL think aubout her proposal to kill the europians in SL? This is extremism. Who is she? Can she be a femal?

 

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It is a good thing that you don't speak for all Europeans.

A very good thing.

Twisting what Amethyst and others of us have said is just plain wrong. 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Oberon, 

i just dont read the same thing than you in what said Amethyst....

she never said europeans are whinners... all i saw is she tried to bring clarifications and help to pp... i know she didnt gave you the answer that you wanted to read, but its bec she just hasnt this power...She not one of the linden lab employees.

im not her, i m not her spokersperson (before anyone says it), so well, i guess she can explain better than me what she meant...

but really, honnestly and sincerely, i havent read that europeans are all whinners in her words... i may admit that she use to speak a lil coldly and maybe bluntly... but well even if she adds flowers to every of her words it wont change anything...

i think that your emotions now bec of your pb for buying l$ make you think different...There is nothing wrong with that bec its just human.. but, you should take a step back and try to read with more objectivity...

after all, we are all in the same boat you know... even for those of us who still can buy l$ via lindex, if the sl economy is harmed, we will all suffer from this... our favorite creators wont be here anymore, our favorite destinations either.. and sl wont be never the same and probably it will be boring as hell... 

on top we all have friends that are having pb for now for buying l$ and the last thing we would want is to see them leaving..

so i dont think there should be a war between residents... we are all in the same boat.. and division is never a good thing.... 

As you could see even the ones who still can buy l$ came here to give help to understand what was happening, give advice and add a voice to the other ones for asking to ll that they add new paiment methods to lindex... i havent seen anyone saying he/she was happy bec a lot of europeans are in pain for now for buying l$...

Think about this Oberon... noone is against you here, neither against every other europeans... but pp have different way to say things... 

[oberon Zuta]

Hi Trinity

 

See yourself how much she did it:

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05-11-2013 04:47 PM
I bet there will be more complainers whining that they still don't accept the form t


05-13-2013 12:04 AM - edited ‎05-13-2013 12:15 AM
I think it is mostly Europeans that have been effected by the TPE"s closing.  I honestly haven't seen anyone else from any other part of the world complain about it except one Brazilian who said he can't get a credit card just like there are people in the US who can't either   I think if it effected them that much they'd be in here complaining just as the Euro's are.  Either people from other parts of the world didn't use TPE's a lot or they have figured out a way to use the Lindex.

05-15-2013 09:42 AM - edited ‎05-15-2013 09:54 AM
On what do you base this assertion?  I haven't seen anyone but Eutopeans complain about this issue and Euro's don't make up half the population of SL.

I understand your anger, but I think you should take a break from SL

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And it is wrong - it exist here a thread who brazilians say, that they dont have the possibillity to buy lindens now ... and that (quotation) 'mostly of brazilians buy lindes by friends who have PayPal or CC's' they only answer of Amethyst for that is a simply link on PayPal website. I really dont need this behaviour here.

I dont like to be teached with all this LAW stuff. Maybe it explaine some decicions - but please without that arrogance.

I dont like to support money laundering and other criminal stuff.

I never complained about nothing. I only ask for a solution how to buy lindens now. I f someone have an answer - i will be happy again. I promise.

 

And this answer is still not givern. From nobody. And finally i am only intersted in this answer.

[oberon Zuta]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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oberon Zuta wrote:

It is really bad - now, the only possibillity to earn L$ is to do escort service - but i guess it is not allowed in USA hehehe.

Congratulation Amethyst Jetaime! You won! I can hear your laugh over the pond. And my thoughts are - how silly must an individual must be to act like her. Maybe i report them about infringment against racisms law. She called europians whiners and complainers instead to bring a solution - what will LL think aubout her proposal to kill the europians in SL? This is extremism. Who is she? Can she be a femal?

 

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It is a good thing that you don't speak for all Europeans.

A very good thing.

Twisting what Amethyst and others of us have said is just plain wrong. 

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Hello Perrie - i dont define me by nation, race, footballclub, skin color, confession, or ideology and i divide humans in good and bad.

I am an idividualist. I dont twist Amethist's words.

And i dont speak for all europians i speak for myself.

So please calm down.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

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oberon Zuta wrote:

I never complained about nothing. I only ask for a solution how to buy lindens now. I f someone have an answer - i will be happy again. I promise.

 

And this answer is still not givern. From nobody. And finally i am only intersted in this answer.

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What country are you in, oberon, that you are having difficulties buying L$?  If you are in Germany, as your first post suggests, I asked in SLU a few days ago about if German people have difficutly with PayPal and several people said, no, they didn't.   Maybe you could ask one of them for advice.

[oberon Zuta]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

What country are you in, oberon, that you are having difficulties buying L$?  If you are in Germany, as your first post suggests,

I asked in SLU

a few days ago about if German people have difficutly with PayPal and several people said, no, they didn't.   Maybe you could ask one of them for advice.

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Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support. Sorry to hear you're having problems adding Paypal as a Payment method.

 

However, in order to add Paypal as a payment method to your Second Life account, you must also link a major credit/debit card to your paypal account. You will not be able to add paypal to your Second Life account unless you link to major credit/debit card to your paypal account.

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[Innula Zenovka]

If you do not have a debit (not credit) card, perhaps you could ask your bank to issue one to you?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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oberon Zuta wrote:

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

What country are you in, oberon, that you are having difficulties buying L$?  If you are in Germany, as your first post suggests,

I asked in SLU

a few days ago about if German people have difficutly with PayPal and several people said, no, they didn't.   Maybe you could ask one of them for advice.

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Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support. Sorry to hear you're having problems adding Paypal as a Payment method.

 

However, in order to add Paypal as a payment method to your Second Life account, you must also link a major credit/debit card to your paypal account. You will not be able to add paypal to your Second Life account unless you link to major credit/debit card to your paypal account.

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So, what you are saying is that you don't have a CC or debit card... does your bank offer a debit card? If so, link it up... if not.. what backwoods bank do you use? If you missed it Virvox posted this

"Good News: Linden Lab has approached us with a potential solution that would allow us to serve our customers within the bounds of the updated Second Life Terms of Service. We are in discussions with them and look forward to being able to share more information very soon."

So apparently all will be right with the world soon..

Keep whining and carry on.

[oberon Zuta]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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So, what you are saying is that you don't have a CC or debit card... does your bank offer a debit card? If so, link it up... if not.. what backwoods bank do you use?

Ok thank you for your post. So - what is an accepted debit card in this damn jungle of debit cards?

I accept that LL needs to cover the PayPal account by a debit card - but WHY they do this, i have NO IDEA.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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oberon Zuta wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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So, what you are saying is that you don't have a CC or debit card... does your bank offer a debit card? If so, link it up... if not.. what backwoods bank do you use?

Ok thank you for your post. So - what is an accepted debit card in this damn jungle of debit cards?

I accept that LL needs to cover the PayPal account by a debit card - but WHY they do this, i have NO IDEA.

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Afaik that is paypals rule not LL. I would assume any bank card with a CC logo on it would work. Mine has a MC logo.. works just fine, although i have never cashed out in 8 years. Mainly because i want to keep my L$ in SL. I earned it there and i spend it there.

[oberon Zuta]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:Afaik that is paypals rule not LL. I would assume any bank card with a CC logo on it would work. Mine has a MC logo.. works just fine, although i have never cashed out in 8 years. Mainly because i want to keep my L$ in SL. I earned it there and i spend it there.

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i m  really going crazy in some beautyfull hour about all this stuff

[Innula Zenovka]

What LL want is a Verified PayPal account.    The Knowledge Base article is misleading -- it tries to be helpful but it gives the misleading impression that you must have a credit or debit card to verify your paypal account.    

What I suggest is that you contact German PayPal and ask them for their advice on how to go about setting up and verifying your account with them.    

I see the English PayPal site explains, 

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Verification increases the security of the PayPal network. Verified members have successfully completed PayPal's verification system to establish their identity with us. The verification process varies by country or region. For example, in the US, a Verified member has confirmed a bank account with PayPal

. In Germany, a Verified member has completed a bank transfer or the Expanded Use process.

In most countries and regions where PayPal is available, a verified member has added a credit card and completed the Expanded Use process

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I really think you should be talking to PayPal. LL want a verified PayPal account. How you verify it depends, as PayPal says, on what country you are in.