Stop buying L$ lets hurt LL!

[Perrie Juran]

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

well Solar.. i dont know where you are living, and i know its hard to believe it, but i can tell you that in France, you cant get a card (whatever this card is) easily..

a lot of pp cant have one.. for all kind of reasons...and often bec banks ask a certain income biger than the average one to get one... not the only reason, but its one that exist here.

another thing you prob doesnt know is that if sm1 for a reason or other, fail on one paiement, and this one cant be fixed within 1 month.. then this person will be punished for 5 years and wont be able to get any card.. no matter if the pb has been fixed since then, and if the budget is pretty well managed... 

---

Any bank that does not at least give you an ATM card does not deserve your business. What you are telling me is utterly ridiculous - Such a system exists simply to prevent most commerce. Simple as that.

I'm sorry Trinity but it's BS. If your country wants to harm commerce, that's on them and something they need to get over.

---

I'm not European so can only speak from what I have read and heard from friends in Europe.

For better or for worse that is how life and banking are in Europe.

In some ways considering how foolish and dumb people here in the U.S. are getting in over their heads in Credit Card debt, I even wonder if we'd be better off the European way.

Once upon a time you saved in order to be able to buy something. Now you pay through the nose.

[Solar Legion]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

well Solar.. i dont know where you are living, and i know its hard to believe it, but i can tell you that in France, you cant get a card (whatever this card is) easily..

a lot of pp cant have one.. for all kind of reasons...and often bec banks ask a certain income biger than the average one to get one... not the only reason, but its one that exist here.

another thing you prob doesnt know is that if sm1 for a reason or other, fail on one paiement, and this one cant be fixed within 1 month.. then this person will be punished for 5 years and wont be able to get any card.. no matter if the pb has been fixed since then, and if the budget is pretty well managed... 

---

Any bank that does not at least give you an ATM card does not deserve your business. What you are telling me is utterly ridiculous - Such a system exists simply to prevent most commerce. Simple as that.

I'm sorry Trinity but it's BS. If your country wants to harm commerce, that's on them and something they need to get over.

 

 

well with you all seems so easy ... but do you think a single poor person have power in front of a big bank ? im sorry but not here, in France..

i forgot to tell you that when you are under the 5 year punishment you are not allowed either to go to another bank.. 

but well. i know.. its hard to believe and understand for someone who doesnt live in France..bec yes, i agree with you this seems really ridiculous, indeed.. but still remains the truth of what is happening in my country.

 

---

It's not a function of it seeming easy. It's a function of doing business outside national borders. Requiring a person to go into their bank, just to withdraw funds is ridiculous and a waste of time.

Now that I have explained what an ATM card is (and honestly, no bank should withhold such a card) I should hope that if you have one, you've asked you bank if it can be used for POS and Online transactions.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

well Solar.. i dont know where you are living, and i know its hard to believe it, but i can tell you that in France, you cant get a card (whatever this card is) easily..

a lot of pp cant have one.. for all kind of reasons...and often bec banks ask a certain income biger than the average one to get one... not the only reason, but its one that exist here.

another thing you prob doesnt know is that if sm1 for a reason or other, fail on one paiement, and this one cant be fixed within 1 month.. then this person will be punished for 5 years and wont be able to get any card.. no matter if the pb has been fixed since then, and if the budget is pretty well managed... 

---

Any bank that does not at least give you an ATM card does not deserve your business. What you are telling me is utterly ridiculous - Such a system exists simply to prevent most commerce. Simple as that.

I'm sorry Trinity but it's BS. If your country wants to harm commerce, that's on them and something they need to get over.

---

I'm not European so can only speak from what I have read and heard from friends in Europe.

For better or for worse that is how life and banking are in Europe.

In some ways considering how foolish and dumb people here in the U.S. are getting in over their heads in Credit Card debt, I even wonder if we'd be better off the European way.

Once upon a time you saved in order to be able to buy something. Now you pay through the nose.

---

totally Perrie !, from our point of view here in Europe, the way pp get so easily card in USA seems totally crazy lol.. and not understable...its not conceivable here.... althought it makes a lot of pp here jaleous lol...

[Solar Legion]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

well Solar.. i dont know where you are living, and i know its hard to believe it, but i can tell you that in France, you cant get a card (whatever this card is) easily..

a lot of pp cant have one.. for all kind of reasons...and often bec banks ask a certain income biger than the average one to get one... not the only reason, but its one that exist here.

another thing you prob doesnt know is that if sm1 for a reason or other, fail on one paiement, and this one cant be fixed within 1 month.. then this person will be punished for 5 years and wont be able to get any card.. no matter if the pb has been fixed since then, and if the budget is pretty well managed... 

---

Any bank that does not at least give you an ATM card does not deserve your business. What you are telling me is utterly ridiculous - Such a system exists simply to prevent most commerce. Simple as that.

I'm sorry Trinity but it's BS. If your country wants to harm commerce, that's on them and something they need to get over.

---

I'm not European so can only speak from what I have read and heard from friends in Europe.

For better or for worse that is how life and banking are in Europe.

In some ways considering how foolish and dumb people here in the U.S. are getting in over their heads in Credit Card debt, I even wonder if we'd be better off the European way.

Once upon a time you saved in order to be able to buy something. Now you pay through the nose.

---

That's just it though - using an account linked card removes most of the debit that is accrued through the use of a pure credit card. Even whgen I was able to get a pure credit card, I refused to do so. I will not spend money I do not have and my bank accounts have normally been set up to reject payments that would case an overdraft. When not set up that way, (and I have been through several banks, thanks to moving around the country and needing a local bank, present move excluded) I at least choose a bank which has a grace period for overdraft transactions.

My current bank is a bit different however ..... Being on a fixed income and unsure of my current living situation, I have not switched banks (and payees - fixed income, Supplimental Security) from my current bank. They are based primarily in the Tri-State area of NJ, DE, PA with linkages in other systems. So long as I can get money into the account prior to the Debit processing fully, they don't charge me for the overdraft.

Under normal circumstances, this is not an issue.

Their fees? $39 for the initial overdraft. Even if tha is paid off (along with the amount that caused the overdraft) they will then switch to a $5 a day system on all subsequent overdrafts that occur that month.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

well Solar.. i dont know where you are living, and i know its hard to believe it, but i can tell you that in France, you cant get a card (whatever this card is) easily..

a lot of pp cant have one.. for all kind of reasons...and often bec banks ask a certain income biger than the average one to get one... not the only reason, but its one that exist here.

another thing you prob doesnt know is that if sm1 for a reason or other, fail on one paiement, and this one cant be fixed within 1 month.. then this person will be punished for 5 years and wont be able to get any card.. no matter if the pb has been fixed since then, and if the budget is pretty well managed... 

---

Any bank that does not at least give you an ATM card does not deserve your business. What you are telling me is utterly ridiculous - Such a system exists simply to prevent most commerce. Simple as that.

I'm sorry Trinity but it's BS. If your country wants to harm commerce, that's on them and something they need to get over.

---

I'm not European so can only speak from what I have read and heard from friends in Europe.

For better or for worse that is how life and banking are in Europe.

In some ways considering how foolish and dumb people here in the U.S. are getting in over their heads in Credit Card debt, I even wonder if we'd be better off the European way.

Once upon a time you saved in order to be able to buy something. Now you pay through the nose.

---

That's just it though - using an account linked card removes most of the debit that is accrued through the use of a pure credit card. Even whgen I was able to get a pure credit card, I refused to do so. I will not spend money I do not have and my bank accounts have normally been set up to reject payments that would case an overdraft. When not set up that way, (and I have been through several banks, thanks to moving around the country and needing a local bank, present move excluded) I at least choose a bank which has a grace period for overdraft transactions.

My current bank is a bit different however ..... Being on a fixed income and unsure of my current living situation, I have not switched banks (and payees - fixed income, Supplimental Security) from my current bank. They are based primarily in the Tri-State area of NJ, DE, PA with linkages in other systems. So long as I can get money into the account prior to the Debit processing fully, they don't charge me for the overdraft.

Under normal circumstances, this is not an issue.

Their fees? $39 for the initial overdraft. Even if tha is paid off (along with the amount that caused the overdraft) they will then switch to a $5 a day system on all subsequent overdrafts that occur that month.

---

And that is part of the problem for LL and PayPal with debit cards.  They don't always get "instant notification" that the transaction is going to bounce.

Suffice it to say I know this experientially.

[Solar Legion]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

well Solar.. i dont know where you are living, and i know its hard to believe it, but i can tell you that in France, you cant get a card (whatever this card is) easily..

a lot of pp cant have one.. for all kind of reasons...and often bec banks ask a certain income biger than the average one to get one... not the only reason, but its one that exist here.

another thing you prob doesnt know is that if sm1 for a reason or other, fail on one paiement, and this one cant be fixed within 1 month.. then this person will be punished for 5 years and wont be able to get any card.. no matter if the pb has been fixed since then, and if the budget is pretty well managed... 

---

Any bank that does not at least give you an ATM card does not deserve your business. What you are telling me is utterly ridiculous - Such a system exists simply to prevent most commerce. Simple as that.

I'm sorry Trinity but it's BS. If your country wants to harm commerce, that's on them and something they need to get over.

---

I'm not European so can only speak from what I have read and heard from friends in Europe.

For better or for worse that is how life and banking are in Europe.

In some ways considering how foolish and dumb people here in the U.S. are getting in over their heads in Credit Card debt, I even wonder if we'd be better off the European way.

Once upon a time you saved in order to be able to buy something. Now you pay through the nose.

---

That's just it though - using an account linked card removes most of the debit that is accrued through the use of a pure credit card. Even whgen I was able to get a pure credit card, I refused to do so. I will not spend money I do not have and my bank accounts have normally been set up to reject payments that would case an overdraft. When not set up that way, (and I have been through several banks, thanks to moving around the country and needing a local bank, present move excluded) I at least choose a bank which has a grace period for overdraft transactions.

My current bank is a bit different however ..... Being on a fixed income and unsure of my current living situation, I have not switched banks (and payees - fixed income, Supplimental Security) from my current bank. They are based primarily in the Tri-State area of NJ, DE, PA with linkages in other systems. So long as I can get money into the account prior to the Debit processing fully, they don't charge me for the overdraft.

Under normal circumstances, this is not an issue.

Their fees? $39 for the initial overdraft. Even if tha is paid off (along with the amount that caused the overdraft) they will then switch to a $5 a day system on all subsequent overdrafts that occur that month.

---

And that is part of the problem for LL and PayPal with debit cards.  They don't always get "instant notification" that the transaction is going to bounce.

Suffice it to say I know this experientially.

---

Assuming of course that the bank account the card is linked to even has it set up to deny a payment that will overdraft. Most of my transactions are by my ATM/Credit/Debit card. The only automated transaction I have that goes through PayPal is my Netflix subscription. That is by far the largest automated transaction I have and thanks to the delay in processing through PayPal, if for some reason the transaction will overdraft me, I have a bit of time to use an ATM to deposit a bit of money (borrowed from a friend that is later paid back when my next monthly check hits). These instances are so rare as to be negligible though.

That said, I cannot see any valid reason for a bank to withhold such a card from its customers. it's linked to the account and draws all payments directly from it. You'd think that a bank would jump at the chance to make it easier for its customers to access their funds.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

It's not a function of it seeming easy. It's a function of doing business outside national borders. Requiring a person to go into their bank, just to withdraw funds is ridiculous and a waste of time.

Now that I have explained what an ATM card is (and honestly, no bank should withhold such a card) I should hope that if you have one, you've asked you bank if it can be used for POS and Online transactions.

---

well, i dont have pb for buying my l$ till now.. just saying

but well, i give up... you seem to think you know better how banks work in my country than me.. its ok.. i wont insist anymore.... 

i live in France, i know how it works here... but well.. if you think you know better than me that fine for me..

if your atm is the lil card that allow pp to use the bank machine for getting some money (but you surely dont know that this lil card only allow you to take money from the machines that YOUR bank own, not the other ones...) you can try to come here and ask to a bank here to link this to any paypal account.. this day, please call me.. bec i dont want to miss out the banker's face when you will ask such thing to him.... well maybe this one will have a big laugh too btw.. but well... try it.. and let me know...

but well, you know how banks work here in France... that s great... the only pb is just that french bankers are not aware about this... but well..

When pp here cant get a card, they pay everything by wirepaiment... but a wire paiement to LL is 25 usd + the fees that will take your bank too and you can add too the fees for transforming euros into usd... 

all that im asking, is that pp understand where come from the real rants from the pp who are complaining... not bec of the LL 's decision, not bec of the new usa law, not even bec they are in love with TPE, but just because they would like that lindex allow them other alternatives than cards for purchasing l$. This is the real reason of the rants. Maybe they are badly expressed and phrased.. but knowing how it works in Europe help me to read between the lines..

 

ETA : ah and you should also take some infos about how banks here treat pp who doesnt have at least an income of 2000 euros (i just rem to you that the minimum salary allowed here and so the average one is about 1200 euros monthly). they treat pp who earn less than 2000 euros just like if they are shi**. i could tell you a lot of detailed stories about this... but well since you seem to know how it works here you surely know already.

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

"You'd think that a bank would jump at the chance to make it easier for its customers to access their funds"

Banks LOVE to hold onto funds. Core deposits are where they get their cash to make loans and earn a profit. The harder it is to get your money out, the longer they can hold onto it :matte-motes-wink:

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

Solar, while it is true that PayPal is available in 193 countries, not all PayPal services are. If, in some places, it is difficult to get a credit card, it can be harder to have a PayPal account verified. As for ATM cards, that's the credit card I have on file with LL and I have no issue with it. I think more people are leery of linking their bank account to Lindex via an ATM card, not that most cannot do so, but that they do not want to do so.

[Solar Legion]

---

Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

Solar, while it is true that PayPal is available in 193 countries, not all PayPal services are. If, in some places, it is difficult to get a credit card, it can be harder to have a PayPal account verified. As for ATM cards, that's the credit card I have on file with LL and I have no issue with it. I think more people are leery of linking their bank account to Lindex via an ATM card, not that most cannot do so, but that they do not want to do so.

---

The latter I can actually understand as I used to use PayPal almost exclusively for Linden Dollar transfers. It became something of an issue with the automated payments when I went Premium however. Owing to all of the issues that some were having, I opted to link my ATM card instead and used that.

So far, no issues at all - I've had more issues using my card for other purchases than for SL.

[Solar Legion]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

It's not a function of it seeming easy. It's a function of doing business outside national borders. Requiring a person to go into their bank, just to withdraw funds is ridiculous and a waste of time.

Now that I have explained what an ATM card is (and honestly, no bank should withhold such a card) I should hope that if you have one, you've asked you bank if it can be used for POS and Online transactions.

---

well, i dont have pb for buying my l$ till now.. just saying

but well, i give up... you seem to think you know better how banks work in my country than me.. its ok.. i wont insist anymore.... 

i live in France, i know how it works here... but well.. if you think you know better than me that fine for me..

if your atm is the lil card that allow pp to use the bank machine for getting some money (but you surely dont know that this lil card only allow you to take money from the machines that YOUR bank own, not the other ones...) you can try to come here and ask to a bank here to link this to any paypal account.. this day, please call me.. bec i dont want to miss out the banker's face when you will ask such thing to him.... well maybe this one will have a big laugh too btw.. but well... try it.. and let me know...

but well, you know how banks work here in France... that s great... the only pb is just that french bankers are not aware about this... but well..

When pp here cant get a card, they pay everything by wirepaiment... but a wire paiement to LL is 25 usd + the fees that will take your bank too and you can add too the fees for transforming euros into usd... 

all that im asking, is that pp understand where come from the real rants from the pp who are complaining... not bec of the LL 's decision, not bec of the new usa law, not even bec they are in love with TPE, but just because they would like that lindex allow them other alternatives than cards for purchasing l$. This is the real reason of the rants. Maybe they are badly expressed and phrased.. but knowing how it works in Europe help me to read between the lines..

 

ETA : ah and you should also take some infos about how banks here treat pp who doesnt have at least an income of 2000 euros (i just rem to you that the minimum salary allowed here and so the average one is about 1200 euros monthly). they treat pp who earn less than 2000 euros just like if they are shi**. i could tell you a lot of detailed stories about this... but well since you seem to know how it works here you surely know already.

---

I'll be incredibly blunt here: I don't really care what crap your bank pulls with you - that's all it is, crap. How your banks work is contrary to how they're supposed to work.

Any bank that operates the way those in France operate deserves whatever financial hardship they get - it's utterly ridiculous. Restricting an ATM transaction to machines that the bank owns? Oh yes, lovely! If the banks here did that, I'd have to drive over eight hours, crossing a mountain range to get to an ATM ... And then most of the money pulled out would have to go to gas.

Start asking Linden Lab to expand their payment options - and try ding it without coming off as if they're the ones to blame for the way your financial system doesn't work.

No wonder some of the countries in the EU are doing so bloody poorly ... No one in the financial sector knows what they're doing.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

---

I'll be incredibly blunt here: I don't really care what crap your bank pulls with you - that's all it is, crap.

How your banks work is contrary to how they're supposed to work.

---

According to whom?

[Melita Magic]

The world economy is testimony to banks not always doing 'what they should.'

[Solar Legion]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

---

I'll be incredibly blunt here: I don't really care what crap your bank pulls with you - that's all it is, crap.

How your banks work is contrary to how they're supposed to work.

---

According to whom?

---

Hmm, how about accoding to one of the few economies out there that isn't currently tanking into the crapper? We're at a slow crawl back out of the recession caused by the housing bubble bursting. Most of the EU? Sinking away while they try and "save" their way out of it.

Fat lot of good that's doing - but I digress.

The described actions are not those of a bank, they're what one would expect from a safe/vault type arrangement. One where you put your money in without the expectation of needing it any time soon.

[Perrie Juran]

 

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

---

I'll be incredibly blunt here: I don't really care what crap your bank pulls with you - that's all it is, crap.

How your banks work is contrary to how they're supposed to work.

---

According to whom?

---

Hmm, how about accoding to one of the few economies out there that 

isn't

currently tanking into the crapper? We're at a slow crawl back out of the recession caused by the housing bubble bursting. Most of the EU? Sinking away while they try and "save" their way out of it.

Fat lot of good that's doing - but I digress.

The described actions are not those of a bank, they're what one would expect from a safe/vault type arrangement. One where you put your money in without the expectation of needing it any time soon.

---

I thought the topic here was Bank Services, not the mishandling of money.

Banks here in the U.S. are more liberal with the services they supply.  ATM cards are a huge convenience but sometimes still a curse for those addicted to instant gratification.  They save us from carrying as much cash and writing checks.  But they also contribute to impulse buying.

Credit Cards are still too easy to obtain and too loose in the dollar amounts of unsecured loans they make available.  Right now I can charge quadruple of my yearly income. 

Regardless it is still just our opinion that they should offer these services freely to any one at any income level.  Banks provide a service.  Services that are readily available to us here.  In a sense we consider access to these services a 'right.'  The Banks there have more stringent guidelines as to who they will do business there.  And actually here banks can refuse to open checking accounts for people who have a history of bounced checks.

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

I'll be incredibly blunt here: I don't really care what crap your bank pulls with you - that's all it is, crap. How your banks work is contrary to how they're supposed to work.

Any bank that operates the way those in France operate deserves whatever financial hardship they get - it's utterly ridiculous. Restricting an ATM transaction to machines that the bank owns? Oh yes, lovely! If the banks here did that, I'd have to drive over eight hours, crossing a mountain range to get to an ATM ... And then most of the money pulled out would have to go to gas.

Start asking Linden Lab to expand their payment options - and try ding it without coming off as if they're the ones to blame for the way your financial system 

doesn't

work.

No wonder some of the countries in the EU are doing so bloody poorly ... No one in the financial sector knows what they're doing.

---

you can be blunt as long you want with me, it doesnt bother me.... im usually blunt aswell, (im french :smileytongue:). and no caring what crap my bank is pulling with me, is not blunt at all.. its just normal.. its not your business.. i do myself do not care what your bank is pulling with you either.

Now.. im going to print your speech about french banks and i will bring it to my bank for they read how they MUST do... i bet they will be scared... and change their way to do right away... "Awww ! so bad, thanks to this sl resident (Solar) he just show to us how we must to behave ! we didnt know before he told us ..... ". For sure they will listen to you.....They will forget we have a law in France that protect pp when they are too much  inover debt and that can cancel all their debts so banks never see their money again... so they will forget this and give cards to everyone... and everytime the law about overdebt will be applied they will loose money again and again.. And who cares ?  well not you... not me either...according to the benefices they claims every year banks are theft... 

Now, being blunt myself, let me tell you, you are not the one who has to tell me what i have to do, or not to do... so you can keep your : 

---

Solar Legion wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

---

Solar Legion wrote:

Start asking Linden Lab to expand their payment options - and try ding it without coming off as if they're the ones to blame for the way your financial system 

doesn't

work.

 

---

for yourself.

 

 

If you have had used your eyes and your brain to read me, you should already have seen that i never asked for TPE are back.. (i never dealt with them... not my business), that i dont have any pb to buy my l$, (i have a credit card linked to my account) but all i said, is that LL as a poor skill for communication, and that LL should expand their paiement method.

I said also that "its not difficult at all to get a paypal account" is not an answer to all this pp who cant have a card (mostly from Europe) bec paypal is not the only thing requiered by LL.. a card is always requiered.

i hope this will be enough blunt for you.

now if you go on wanting to reading and understanding only that you want to put in my words and thinking you know perfectly how french banks must work... its up to you...but i wont put more energy answering to you... i have a rule... never talk with walls.

 

[Melita Magic]

I think there is something to be said for not promoting consumerism and debt. I have forgotten which country it is but I think there is a country in Northern Europe that puts all salary into a bank and everything comes from that bank? It is all wireless and you literally have no line of credit, you only can get what you can afford. No more.

It's how people in the mid century generation and earlier lived in America too but by choice. 

It's nice some governments protect their citizens from legal usury.

[Solar Legion]

No dear - French banks don't work. And the BS concerning you printing the conversation out for a laugh? Grow up a bit.

Sorry to hear that your banking system and government have their heads so far up their arses that they'd rather accelerate their own slide into a depression than do what should be done, including changing some of their laws concerning debit.

I am well aware what you have said regarding Linden Lab - complaining about the quality of their communication concerning the recent changes is treating them as if your banking issues are somehow their fault. They communicated perfectly well what their changes were. Anyone that didn't see this coming .... Well, No need to finish that.

ALl you can do is ask them to add more payment methods or hope that TPE's work things out. At least, all you can do without wasting your time.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

[Mileva Milev]

http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2013/05/podex-anshex-dxexchange-down-other-exchanges-wait-for-good-news/
Thu, May 16 2013

" ...
Confusion reins
The lack of planning and communication on the part of Linden Lab has created a confusing situation for exchanges.
...
Foreign residents of Second Life have particular problems with buying and selling Linden Dollars. Some do not have access to credit cards or PayPal, and prefer to use prepaid cards, telephone payments, local bank ATMs or other channels to buy or sell Lindens. Others have credit cards or PayPal, but have trouble using them for international purchases, or face high fees or extremely long wait periods while the transactions go through. Some people don’t want to use their credit cards online out of security worries.

“I feel compelled to give up my sim,” said Michael Pusch, a signer from Austria. “And that would be only the tip of the iceberg… "