Stop buying L$ lets hurt LL!

[Ceka Cianci]

ya i've never had a problem getting my lindens when i ever cashed out from lindex..

 

it used to be really slow back when you coudl cash out through xstreet...

xstreet was faster at times.

but you still had a wait time..

 

Lindex was always like 3 to 7 days..

i think only one time it went 7 dys back then..

most were pretty much the minimum 3 days and sometimes even less..

it's been a little bit since i have cashed any out..

i'm more of an influx type person and bring it in  lol

 

so i can't really say how fast it is today..

but i always got my money..

 

one reason that really made me leery of using anything else besides those two was just being leery of running into another ginko guy..

i actually almost got talked into that by a friend that was using it..and i remember him saying..wow i can't get to my money for some reason..Red flag..then not long after ..the bad news hit and the ginko guy was gone..

even the xstreet atms made me a little nervious..but that as because of someone setting a prim over them and  tricking you out of your lindens..

3rd party stuff..there is always gonna be the bigger risk..

if i couldn't use the lindex..then i would maybe have found one of those that  i got faith in..

those are the people i feel for in all this..the ones that can't buy in right now..

 

cashing out delays..that's just a matter of having to adjust to how long it takes to get money..

prices on lindens ..well sometimes these things have price increases..but can't see that being LL's fault about CC charges..

 

[Six Igaly]

I'm not easily surprised myself, I mean, if you can think of something most likely it happens / exist somewhere. But at the same time I think it is a bit tricky to say most complainers are leeches too.

I do believe that some (and somehow some people wants to make believe there are a lot) people are having difficulties with buying L$. Well IMO these are personal situations some people are in to, like having payment issues and in serious debt. Why else would one not be able to use paypal.

Another thing is taking back L$. How much does one have to make each month to feel the need to take L$ back? And how many of us? For me it would be too much of a hassle for those couple of dollars (euros in my case) I make each month. I put some of it back in the SL economy by buying stuff (just because I can) and the rest I save up for just in case. A case like when running low on money RL, I at least have enough saved to pay my tier for 2 months.

[Azanor]

---

jwenting wrote:

---

Muletta wrote:

Thank you for link, I don't understand all it says, so am I wrong about the changes have been made because of new rules from the Goverment of USA, or have I understood it right?

---

yes, LL would have been legally responsible for any and all money laundering and other transactions with money gained from criminal enterprises through their systems.

IOW if someone used a one time debit card bought using cash gained from a robbery to buy L$ from say Virwox, LL staff could have been arrested and put on criminal trial for that.

 

---

Money laundring measure are not against for small thefts, but for the big organizations moving great amount of money around the world bypassing the legal banking system. If somebody steals your credit card and uses it for charging  few hundred dollars on SL there is nothing LL can do about it either, unless the financial instutition they are doing business with flags the transaction.  If you rob somewhere and buy a debit card with that money, you can't prosecute the shops that are accepting the debit card. Neither SL, nor TPEs, nor the deli down to street has any way of knowing how you bought that debit card. They treat all the cards issued by the financial instutitions same. In this case the bank has no way of knowing where you got the cash either. The example you gave is like suing a restaurant because they served food to a robber and accepted his cash, or suing a car manufacturer when the same person pays cash and buys a car. 

If you steal somebody elses debit/credit card, then the procedure is different. That person needs to report the theft immediatly. Once reported the responsibility is on the bank. Not on the customer, nor on the shop. Plus even when the card was not stolen, if the bank's system finds the transaction suspicious, it's still banks responsibility to flag the transaction. On top of that, all banks are insured against fraud, so there are already multi layered measures against these problems.

Except the extra book keeping, and transperancy load put on LL's shoulders by the new regulations, this issue doesn't have much to do with the risks of e-commerce. 

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Six Igaly wrote:

 

I do believe that some (and somehow some people wants to make believe there are a lot) people are having difficulties with buying L$. Well IMO these are personal situations some people are in to, like having payment issues and in serious debt. Why else would one not be able to use paypal.

 

Why else ? well simply bec it seems that LL ask paypal account are linked to a credit card.. and in Europe banks are jerks for giving sm1 credit card...They dont give them easily at all...

so if you dont have a credit card, you cant get l$. This has nothing to see with payment issues or serious debt... a lot of pp dont have any prob on their bank account but still cant get a credit card in Europe...

[oberon Zuta]

Amethist jetaime

My question for you is why are you not mad at the TPE's?  They had access to the same information about the pending regs as everyone else. Why didn't they warn you in advance or take steps to stay in business? Either they manage their business very poorly and were asleep at the wheel or chose not to do anything but continue to squeeze every last bit of profit out of their customers as they could.  Either way they have proven to be inept at best and I wouldn't trust one of them again.

hi Amethist

see it like this: in European Union (Motto: "United in diversity", 27 states, over 500 million citizens , 23 mainlanguages, GDP nominal $17.577 trillion) we can transfer Money from one Bankaccount to another Bancaccout within around 1 day by SEPA without any fee's. And EU is not a federation (united) it is only a union. We have no own EU President right now -  We are well civilisated here and since the french revolution we have decimal meter mesures and never used bastfiber skirts except in the colonies. And if there are some money launders, they prefer to go to Delaware ...

It is not fair if you try us to learn how to live - you can learn us to talk english - ok, accepted. Because 90% of this 500 million, 23 different language speakers between 20-30yo learned english in shool, not at home. In the Nation i live it starts this year with 500 mbps fiber internet connection even countryside some hv right now 800 mbps (privat accounts).

And we like to use our taxfree bancacount transfer with personal and moneylaudry conform IBAN Number... what the hell is the problem?

I am aware that you only say your opinion - like me too - so lets blame the pound in the middle.

 

Oberon - king of fairies

 

 

[Six Igaly]

Where I live (not sure if that goes for all of Europe) you can get creditcards IF you are creditworthy enough, simple as that. It's a precautionary measure in fact. And a lot of people DO have payment issues and debts. So business wise (and LL is a business) I can't blame them.

Of course everybody should be able to enjoy SL and despite of what others might yell, I think LL wants that too. It is a company for crying out loud, and a company wants to make as much money as possible for as long as possible. So I am convinced that IF things are possible (= the same as it does not have to cost more then it gains) they will make it happen.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Six Igaly wrote:

Where I live (not sure if that goes for all of Europe) you can get creditcards IF you are creditworthy enough,

---

where i live its not the case.

in France there are a lot of banks who will refuse to give a credit card bec they think your income are not enough, whatever they are decent and still are the minimum requiered in France. and they dont pay no mind to the fact you have had never any prb on your account. 

they give you a card for you can get money from their machines but nothing more, its not a credit card, you cant buy anything with that.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

oberon Zuta wrote:

Amethist jetaime

My question for you is why are you not mad at the TPE's?  They had access to the same information about the pending regs as everyone else. Why didn't they warn you in advance or take steps to stay in business? Either they manage their business very poorly and were asleep at the wheel or chose not to do anything but continue to squeeze every last bit of profit out of their customers as they could.  Either way they have proven to be inept at best and I wouldn't trust one of them again.

hi Amethist

see it like this: in European Union (

Motto: 

"

United in diversity

", 27 states, over 500 million citizens , 23 mainlanguages, GDP nominal $17.577 trillion) we can transfer Money from one Bankaccount to another Bancaccout within around 1 day by SEPA without any fee's. And EU is not a federation (united) it is only a union. We have no own EU President right now -  We are well civilisated here and since the french revolution we have decimal meter mesures and never used bastfiber skirts except in the colonies. And if there are some money launders, they prefer to go to Delaware ...

It is not fair if you try us to learn how to live - you can learn us to talk english - ok, accepted. Because 90% of this 500 million, 23 different language speakers between 20-30yo learned english in shool, not at home. In the Nation i live it starts this year with 500 mbps fiber internet connection even countryside some hv right now 800 mbps.

And we like to use our taxfree bancacount transfer with personal and moneylaudry conform IBAN Number... what the hell is the problem?

I am aware that you only say your opinion - like me too - so lets blame the pound in the middle.

 

Oberon - king of fairies

 

 

---

And if LL were a European company we would all be following your rules.  BUT it isn't.  It is a US Company and MUST follow US laws.

No one is trying to teach you anything.  You don't HAVE to be in SL.  You choose to be.  So whatever rules the US Government sets, will effect you too, like it or not. It is the same as if you came to the US as a tourist.  You would have to follow the law here or face the consequences, just as when I am in your country I have to follow your laws. Fairness has nothing to do with it and whining about it would get me no where.

This is not my opinion but a fact. 

If you think that there is no money laundering going on in Europe or even in your country, try googling "European union money laundering" and you get 8,980,000 results.  If it never happens there why so many results?  

[iCade]

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Azazael Heron wrote:

In the end LL hurts only themselfs. Not getting L means not buying or paying tier etc,,wich means less income for LL

Nice going.LL

And buying L only from LL is NO option. Is costing me(Europe) more then i used to.

Again,,nice going LL

You gotta love sl..

Enjoy the life folks!

---

Excuse my bluntness, but the **bleep** are you talking about?

I've been buying Linden through the Lindex for the past 2 years. I'm european, german to be exact.

The prices has only mildly fluctuated and the VAT charge is €0.30 constant. Lately prices have barely changed.

I've compared prices of 3rd party sellers with the Lindex and the difference was so negligible most of the times 3rd party sellers would have cost MORE that the Lindex has always been the best choice for us europeans who have paypal.

So again, the **bleep** are you talking about? Troll.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

Azanor wrote:

 

You are right TPE's are not neccesarily the good guys here. They are doing what they think is good for them, and LL is just being LL, while the customers are being squeezed in the middle. The problem of the LL is, and I think thats why most people are angry at them not just in this issue but in many things, they never want to recognize they are not in beta anymore. When they first started SL it was an experimental thing. It was a vision of one person. Nobody had done it before. It was a big risk to take for it's founders, and there wasn't a multi million dollars business around at that time. LL was making many mistakes, and people were keep forgiving them because hey, it was a new era and everybody was in the same boat. But then business started to take off, and they kept taking advantage of this behaviour.

I remember the days  RL world brands, and universities being present in SL, but they were not as patient and forgiving as individual customers are. When they realized LL is acting like a company who run by college kids at somebodys dormitory, and refusing to build a solid business they left. 

It should have been a wake up call for LL, but No. Instead after 10 years, they are still this company that always expects its customers to take the burden, and forgive the every blunder they make as if this is still somebody's pet project. 

So this is not the issue of regulations , and TPE's. This is about people spending a good money on a product, and never getting the quality of service they expect from a company of this size. Of course posting on the forums wont change anything, but I guess some people feel better when they share their frasturation and we keep talking about it... 

---

I remember the days of RL world brands too and in fact helped to bring some of them in through a company I own and worked with them extensively.  They didn't leave because of LL and how they ran their company.  They left because they didn't get the marketing results they were looking for. 

Adidas is a prime example.  They came in, built a sim and put a large store on it.  They had replicas of their shoes made and sold them in SL and when you bought a pair you got a link to their on line store to buy a pair in RL too.  Their sim was empty unless they were giving L's away.  SL residents bought their shoes from SL businesses.  Marketing studies done at the time showed that SL residents didn't want to buy or hear about RL products or services while in SL. They preferred to spend their money with SL business to support them and the SL economy, rather than see it leave and go to big corporations.

And this IS only about regulations. LL would never have made this move except for them, not matter what you think or how often you say otherwise.   LL has made lots of mistakes and  some bone headed decisions but this was not one of them.  Their fault in this specific matter is poor communications, which I have conceded all along.  Dismiss it if it pleases your skewed views, but the fact is that TPE's are as culpable as LL in this regard.

[Madeliefste Oh]

---

iCade wrote:

 

The prices has only mildly fluctuated and the VAT charge is €0.30 constant. Lately prices have barely changed.

---

Are you sure that that is VAT, iCade?

I thought that was the price for the service that paypal charges. Would be more logical, since VAT is always in % over the complete sum, and not a fixed amount.

[Abigail Merlin]

---

Madeliefste Oh wrote:

---

iCade wrote:

 

The prices has only mildly fluctuated and the VAT charge is €0.30 constant. Lately prices have barely changed.

---

Are you sure that that is VAT, iCade?

I thought that was the price for the service that paypal charges. Would be more logical, since VAT is always in % over the complete sum, and not a fixed amount.

---

Yes there is no zerro nill VAT on Lindex, you buy and sell L$ to other residents so VAt rules do not come in effect just like when you sell your used chair on ebay or marktplaats etc.

[Azazael Heron]

 

 

[Alicia Sautereau]

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Azazael Heron wrote:

So again, the **bleep** are you talking about? Troll.

Rude,,,pff

And read all i wrote here,,,not only that 0,30...

But thats whats wrong with someone who shouts troll

You only take out 1 piece of info you read,.

Du mich Troll ,,ich dich Depp FG

 

---

In this case, she is right

For me it was also cheaper to buy from the lindex then TPE`s

[iCade]

---

Azazael Heron wrote:

So again, the **bleep** are you talking about? Troll.

Rude,,,pff

And read all i wrote here,,,not only that 0,30...

But thats whats wrong with someone who shouts troll

You only take out 1 piece of info you read,.

Du mich Troll ,,ich dich Depp FG

 

---

Oh, and you can read minds now?

I read the whole thread just fine, your post however was too much bull**bleep** information to NOT reply directly to it.

 

Guys, please don't listen to this person, Lindex was and still is cheaper than any 3rd party sites to purchase Lindens with. We're only charged $0.30 extra per buy. The VAT is higher (19%) when paying for Premium, and land holdings, but to purchase Linden it's only that few cent fee.

[KarenMichelle Lane]

Oh - yeah - That reply is to the OP.

[oberon Zuta]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

---

---

And if LL were a European company we would all be following your rules.  BUT it isn't.  It is a US Company and MUST follow US laws.

No one is trying to teach you anything.  You don't HAVE to be in SL.  You choose to be.  So whatever rules the US Government sets, will effect you too, like it or not. It is the same as if you came to the US as a tourist.  You would have to follow the law here or face the consequences, just as when I am in your country I have to follow your laws. Fairness has nothing to do with it and whining about it would get me no where.

This is not my opinion but a fact. 

If you think that there is no money laundering going on in Europe or even in your country, try googling "European union money laundering" and you get 8,980,000 results.  If it never happens there why so many results?  

---

Amethist je t'aime peut-être encore ...

 

i recognize that you recognize something like Europe ...

Maybe it's possible that u even can recognize that 'the hard way' against customers never works in business world -

The so called 'hard way' dont work .... not in Mexico nor in Syria. So please dont say such silly things like: 'eat my sh.. or go home' it would declare you as sh.. maker - and i am sure you are not! And noone there, expect someone in cleveland.

 

It is not your function to speak for US law neither my to speak for EU law. I am not politican or scientist or law maker (maybe you are).

I am a customer who likes to buy lindendollar L$, thats fact! And if that fact a company ignore - ok. Say me  direct in my face that u think LL is not intersted in money! Then will i laugh, loud out.

But i try to say: hey folks there in the paradise ... there is a civilisation at the otherisde of the pond an unknown land! But we drive the same japanes cars and use the same in china assembled iphones. And ofc we breath mostly oxygene.

 

I dont expect that LL change anything as long i can give my money. But i can't!

So is my proposition to find a way for the money - is not difficult - i m sure!

And if that way means that LL upgrade it's payment modules or work together with TPE's - ok -

 

 

 

 

[Alicia Sautereau]

There is no solution, it is all up to LL

[Mileva Milev]

Those who write pages and pages "... I, my friends, my neighbour, 2 or 11 overseas I asked ... do not have any problems ..." are ignoring the truth - like the 3 apes with covered eyes, ears and (lol) mouth ... This "hear no evil, see no evil, talk no evil" is only wasting time, no help and not usefull. Next time, when LL will hit those, there is no one left to help ... I mean help each other in a community - not unprofessional instructions how someone at the other side of the world should use a bank.

Communities should help each other, care and trust.

We are part of LL's community and that side of the community owes us (and the 3rd) an answer. The past teached us, that LL does not like to talk and those who say "if you don't like this 3 monkeys you can go" will be in a sooner or later future playing alone - covering each other's ears and eyes and say "what a fun!".

LL owes their community, our communtity, some answers. FinCEN and/or US law against money laundering can not be the reason, because each 3rd and international internet bank has to follow those laws/rules, too, independently. If law would be the reason, what would LL lose to tell us? They would lose nothing when they told us, but they did not talk, not give any warning, did not explain - so, there is an other reason.

LL owes the community, our communtity - us - some answers. Why do THEY not answer some simple questions like (this 2 I posted before):

Why did LL not expand LindeX payment options BEFORE banning 3rd? !!!

Why does LL not tell us the TRUTH? It would be better for them to tell the real reasons instead of sit out all rumors and lose any trust.

[Ticka Alphaville]

I´m writing to congratulate you for your post...I agree totally with you..ofc a lot of ppl are in sl just to have fun or to forget about the problems in rl but some of them have specially reasons to be online...it can be to work, it can be because they have a kind of disability, who knows? I think the most important point is to evaluate how these changes will affect us and most specially ppl who depends to be here for emotional reasons or all kind of reasons

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I have absolutely no issue with anyone urging LL to expand the payment options available or make the Lindex more user friendly. That is exactly what the OP and several people that have posted that LL must or should bring back the TPE's should be doing rather than advocating that LL ignore the law and allow TPE's back in.

That was the reason for my reply to oberon Zuta where I pointed out the error in his thinking.  As stated in my reply, if I go to Europe or do business on the internet with a European company I understand that European laws are what need to be followed not US law. It is fruitless to demand otherwise or play the ugly American and insist that things be done the way I want them to be done.  What I do instead is either adapt and figure out a way for it to work for me, or take my business elsewhere. But when in the US or doing business with a US company on the internet , he needs to understand the law here will govern how business is conducted.  You don't have to be a legal expert to know that.

You are also mistaken in insisting the the law is not the reason for the recent changes that there is some kind of hidden agenda that is the 'truth'.  You are free to believe any kind of conspiracy theory you want to, but it will not change the facts.

As far as why LL did not communicate better what the facts were I can't answer and have never defended them on this point.

As far as why LL didn't expand the payment options prior is probably because the regulations were just finalized recently  None of the payment methods mentioned by Euro's are accepted here in the states, and LL is not a bank (I doubt their bank is set up to process them either) .  So accepting them is a complicated issue.  There may also be further international banking regulations involved  that they must comply with on both sides of the pond and some of those regulations on the European side may be problematic for them or maybe even conflict with US laws. 

LL would be foolish to say much about this and raise people's hopes until everything is finalized and they have specific information to impart.  Even then I doubt they are going to accept as many payment options as people have mentioned so i doubt we have heard the end of people being angry.

 

[Ticka Alphaville]

The problem is in some countries, there is no paypal or ppl have international cc...country like mine, for instance: Brasil

[Amethyst Jetaime]

If you look on PayPals website at the sign up, the drop down box to choose your country shows that clearly PayPal is available in Brazil.

[Suspiria Finucane]

I haven't bought lindens since my first year so I doubt it will make LL hurt. I have no problem with the linden exchange.

[iCade]

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Azazael Heron wrote:

Removed al my posts,,cause i don like how people threat others here. like kindergarten. Who the shoe fits!

Apperently al they wanna do is **bleep** around instead of finding a solution.

Im done here

you gotta love sl

What a world

---

Don't spread around blatantly false info that's beyond misleading just to further your point and you shall be treated with respect. Until then, fair winds.