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Hellespont Hoorenbeek

New ToS? Linden CRAP Lab!

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The new Tos sticks it is very clear that again as always Linden Lab just doesnt care about theire customers, It is als crystal clear to everybody who has the eyes wide open about the changes Linden Lab whants to be the only exchange company for L$ to whatever that is making money over depose of the Linden Dollar. It has nothing to do with fraude payments they only use this as a argument.

All one way traffic nothing new nothing supricing whats next banning 3th viewer partys to maintain a oh so healty community that has to deal with the junk viewer 2/3/4.something?

And thanks Linden "Crap" Lab for destroying my business! But im the one that is goin to cost you money at the end because i quit my business and you Lindens will not get a cent out of me anymore for paying tiers!

 

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Yes this is just unbelievable i will not even use the Lindex since i dont whant LL to earn a penny anymore i rather give it to a homeless guy in rl and quit sl.......

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I Agree !

I support TPV's, however I agree.

Third Party Viewers need to be banned, Security needs to be added to prevent third party viewers from ever connecting again and not provided to the public, Solution to fix griefers, CopyBotters, and so on who are destroying Second Life.


However we need Linden Lab to develop viewers like FireStorm, and so on which are in favor of the community and give us a choice with the same functions firestorm has such as.


Sound Spam Identifier, and so on it would be great to have all the Debug Tools TPV's offer and radar and Mouse Crosshairs for combat and so on.

However I am not so sure I agree with the LindenX thing I say allow free currecny exchange between players, but add better security.


Do you have any idea how much money I lost when my inventory was deleted.

Thousands of Dollars worth of content which can never be recovered.

People might think of me as why would you not want TPV's I love TPV's absolutely, CopyBot isn't bad okay, well it is because people abuse it and it cant be controlled, but if TPV's were banned it would solve many of our problems and save Second Life.

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nothing can save Sl, LL is determined to commit financial suicide with control. I am getting sick of all the b------t, and think i will sell my land and convert to a free account.

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So, everyone wants to use SL but no one wants to support the company running it... If you read all of the other threads like this you would realize this was done in accordance to new US laws about money laundering.. This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

Just gonna hang on to this little snip.

I don't agree with it at all, it's just really, really funny that you said something this silly.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

So, everyone wants to use SL but no one wants to support the company running it... If you read all of the other threads like this you would realize this was done in accordance to new US laws about money laundering.. This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

actualy the gambeling ban and banking ban is a closer comparasin, offcourse the banking ban was a indirect result of gambling ban but that is another rant :P , the ageplay ban was an emotional and pr one the gambeling and banking ban are the result of laws that affect LL directly, same as this one.

I am an active L$ trader but I am glad I have resisted temptation to use other exchanges, it is one gamble that paid of for me, still going to keep an eye on how the Lindex will respond, LL only corrects the supply if the demand is higher then supply but if people are cashing out more then L$ are bought there will be a price fluctuation untill the initial wave settles.

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Anthonius Berkmans wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

So, everyone wants to use SL but no one wants to support the company running it... If you read all of the other threads like this you would realize this was done in accordance to new US laws about money laundering.. This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

actualy the gambeling ban and banking ban is a closer comparasin, offcourse the banking ban was a indirect result of gambling ban but that is another rant
:P
, the ageplay ban was an emotional and pr one the gambeling and banking ban are the result of laws that affect LL directly, same as this one.

I am an active L$ trader but I am glad I have resisted temptation to use other exchanges, it is one gamble that paid of for me, still going to keep an eye on how the Lindex will respond, LL only corrects the supply if the demand is higher then supply but if people are cashing out more then L$ are bought there will be a price fluctuation untill the initial wave settles.

the age play ban is also a direct result of US laws..

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

So, everyone wants to use SL but no one wants to support the company running it... If you read all of the other threads like this you would realize this was done in accordance to new US laws about money laundering.. This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

U.S Laws dont mean anything you see as long as you have services like PayPal ,Click & Buy  and so on people will continue to do Real Money Trading on the internet.  I can also think of many ways to money launder through any virtual grid where it be Second Life or not.

Gambling Also was never banned from Second Life, they just changed it added a few keyword restrictions officially banned it and said it was to support U.S Laws however it still goes on in what is called Games OF SKILL However some games can be rigged to be cheated, not that I dont support peoples free way how to spend their own L$ or anything but its simple fact that it still does exist just under Game of Skill. 

AngePlay is not banned either you can say its banned, you can suspend someones Second Life account, or ban it of course as a Linden Lab Employee, But I know damn well AgePlay  still goes on in Second Life because I have videos from friends which have been record and prove the places where this happens and supposedly they are actually doing something about it I don't know. Maybe the place where it happens is locked up tight and Linden Lab perhaps doesn't know about it.

I do think of AgePlay as RolePlay however maybe they are living out their fantasy and as long as everyone is over 18 and  is like I am really over 18 years old just RPing as 15 or something I really dont care just keep it away from me but the moment they bring actual under aged kids into adult things into Second Life it is a whole new game to me and I have seen sick people do this before because I was there and actually made sure it got reported of course now to my knowledge last I hear 13 year olds are allowed in PG areas.

On the other hand I think that if it is serious enough Law might need to keep track of such individuals to make sure nothing happens Real Life like there is a difference between a RolePlay adult content and Real Life for example.

Just like when Sopa, Pipa, or Cispa actually pass we are doomed we all loose our rights.

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there will be no age play with lindens from other exchanges while gambling in places that use redzone..

that is all!

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

So, everyone wants to use SL but no one wants to support the company running it... If you read all of the other threads like this you would realize this was done in accordance to new US laws about money laundering.. This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

^^This.

I guess it is easier for them to rant in ignorance than it is to try to understand what is behind it and that LL really has no choice unless they want to leave themselves open to a huge risk for being held financially liable and possibly face criminal prosecution.  In the end, to quote the bard, most of them are "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" .and will still be here six months from now.

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 Linden Labs is simply reacting to recent changes in policy by the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (“FinCEN”), an agency in the U.S. Treasury.. See the folowing for details:

 

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/virtual-currency-recent-federal-regulat-06978/

http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html

http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=9504d124-b756-451d-8093-0ee1dd03c5e0

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

LL really has no choice
unless they want to leave themselves open to a huge risk for being held financially liable and possibly face criminal prosecution. 


So you're saying there's absolutely nothing they could've done to better avoid the confusion, resentment, lost employment, conspiracy theories and the bitter feelings that they've caused by springing this on the userbase so quickly? Not a single trapped Linden Dollar could've been saved? LL have acted responsibly and sensibly after weighing all of the options and are a perfectly reputable company, entirely safe for businesses to work alongside? 

There's literally no way to manage the Linden dollar as a currency, and not as a game token? No middle ground, and no ability to keep the Risk API without court or prison sentences?

Further, there was no way to soften this change by improving the functionality of the Lindex prior to this? There was no way to provide value at the same time, by providing better cash-out solutions or joining with better payment services.

Funny stuff.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

So, everyone wants to use SL but no one wants to support the company running it... If you read all of the other threads like this you would realize this was done in accordance to new US laws about money laundering.. This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

^^This.

I guess it is easier for them to rant in ignorance than it is to try to understand what is behind it and that LL really has no choice unless they want to leave themselves open to a huge risk for being held financially liable and possibly face criminal prosecution.  In the end, to quote the bard, most of them are "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" .and will still be here six months from now.

LL could have, and still can do a lot about improving the Lindex. There is a reason people were using those third party exchanges. Offering not enough payment options, and poor quality of service has nothing to do with government regulations. The regulations say be transparent about the source of the transactions and keep your books in order. They are running a multi millions dollars business, it is their responsibility to do it anyway. People don't complain about LL's compliance with regulations, they complain about the Lindex's quality of service. It just didn't become a big issue till this ToS change because people could have ignored it. Now they are stuck with Lindex, and they obviously are not happy with it's service quality. If LL added more payment options to the Lindex and improved the processing times, the reaction to this ToS change would have been minimal. 

As I said in another thread: Luckily SL is free to connect. Consuming is an option, not a must.  I am not sure if  the same thing can be said for the merchants though. 

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I'm not aware of any official statement that this is the result of a change in the banking regulation of the USA. Something of that sort has happened, around 6 weeks ago, but nothing has been said by Linden Labs about a change in the law. They did attribute the ban on gambling to legal issues.

And the TOS does specify a 30-day notice period. If the lawyers were recommending an immediate half it's a bit odd that they doin't seem to have used that as a resaon to break their own rules.

All we have is guess work. Is it the law, or is it some scheme to pick up a million dollars in fees? Do the Lindens really appreciate that they have customers outside the USA?

The merchants have been complaining about Linden incompetence for the last year or so. The Marketplace has problems, and the Lindens charge transaction fees without taking any responsibility for such things as failures to deliver.

In the end, the spiel about the TPEs being more susceptible to fraud does not hold up. Most of them are in Europe, operating under European standards on card payment and money laundering.

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I never said that LL could not have handled it better.  I was responding to the OP's opinion that it was all some conspiracy to corner the exchange market.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I was responding to the OP's opinion that it was all some conspiracy to corner the exchange market.

You sure? Because it sure reads like you're complaining about most of the critics of this policy change, and dismissing users' complaints as baseless whining.


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I guess it is easier for
them
to rant in ignorance than it is to try to understand what is behind it and that LL really has no choice unless they want to leave themselves open to a huge risk for being held financially liable and possibly face criminal prosecution. In the end, to quote the bard,
most of them
are "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" .and will still be here six months from now.

Doesn't sound directed at the singular OP to me.

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I have never used any exchange but Lindex, as I don't ever cash out Lindens. From what I've read of the TOS and the myriad discussions here, those who run exchanges have to remove their inworld ATMs. I always thought such exchanges had websites as well as inworld ATMs. LL is making it clearer that they do not support such exchanges, so of course the inworld ATMs have to go, but what about the websites for the exchanges, can trading still go on there?

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Lucretia Brandenburg wrote:

LL is making it clearer that they do not support such exchanges, so of course the inworld ATMs have to go, but what about the websites for the exchanges, can trading still go on there?

 

According to this post from about 24 hours ago at least some exchanges are still active, although several others have halted Linden trading while waiting for the dust to settle.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

So, everyone wants to use SL but no one wants to support the company running it... If you read all of the other threads like this you would realize this was done in accordance to new US laws about money laundering.. This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

If it has been done to compy with new guidelines, then Linden Lab could have said that. They have not made any mention of those new guidelines.

 

They have not given sufficient notice., they have not acted in a professional manner, they have caused problems for their own users and they can't even get their blog posts to match their terms of service.

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Hello,
  with horror yesterday I confirmed the new LL TOS. For me now, the question arises how can I buy Linden dollars. Linden Lab provides only accept Paypal and credit card and I need to verify a Paypal payment with my credit card my account. I live in Austria (Europe) and August 2008 VirWoX have are used as currency exchange. There I was able to make a direct transfer from my bank account, now I can not anymore. I'll have to give up my horses and dogs breeding, my home country and my country and my breeding SL premium account. It is a pity that Linden Lab does not think that too many Europeans are ingame and stimulate the SL economy.

I hope this is understandable in about, I use the goggle translated, because my English is very bad, and obviously there is only an English SL forum.

LG Loli

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