New ToS? Linden CRAP Lab!

[Lolita029 Magic]

Thank you

[Rommanno]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

So, everyone wants to use SL but no one wants to support the company running it... If you read all of the other threads like this you would realize this was done in accordance to new US laws about money laundering.. This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

---

^^This.

I guess it is easier for them to rant in ignorance than it is to try to understand what is behind it and that LL really has no choice unless they want to leave themselves open to a huge risk for being held financially liable and possibly face criminal prosecution.  In the end, to quote the bard, most of them are "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" .and will still be here six months from now.

---

It is very mature to call arguments of others "ranting in ignorance"? Because everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant apparently. Ironically, this makes you look like an ignorant child yourself.  People have lost or will lose their hard earned money. Ranting is what you would expect. And Linden Lab didn't handle this well at all. Lack of payment methods on Lindex is a very good reason for some users to be concerned about the future of SL, as well.

[Rommanno]

If they have to remove their ATMs how are they supposed to continue their service?

[Lucretia Brandenburg]

As I mentioned, I have never used ATMs here, but don't these exchanges have websites? When I purchase Lindens form Lindex, I log into my dashboard and do it from there, I don't need to be logged into SL to purchase Lindens.

[ZombieChow]

 

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Hellespont Hoorenbeek wrote:

The new Tos sticks it is very clear that again as always Linden Lab just doesnt care about theire customers, It is als crystal clear to everybody who has the eyes wide open about the changes Linden Lab whants to be the only exchange company for L$ to whatever that is making money over depose of the Linden Dollar. It has nothing to do with fraude payments they only use this as a argument.

All one way traffic nothing new nothing supricing whats next banning 3th viewer partys to maintain a oh so healty community that has to deal with the junk viewer 2/3/4.something?

And thanks Linden "Crap" Lab for destroying my business! But im the one that is goin to cost you money at the end because i quit my business and you Lindens will not get a cent out of me anymore for paying tiers!

 

---

Your complaints over the new ToS are absolutely absurd.

Linden Lab modified their ToS to comply with amended federal regulations.  Additionally, why shouldn't Linden Lab tighten the reins on the economy they're responsible for?  Your business isn't the only one making money on the grid, and the Lindens are responsible for ensuring the economy's stability.  There can be no economy if the government shuts the game down for breach of federal law.

They're also a business, and they exist to make money. They've also got one hefty light bill to pay.

 

 

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I was responding to the OP's opinion that it was all some conspiracy to corner the exchange market.

---

You sure? Because it sure reads like you're complaining about most of the critics of this policy change, and dismissing users' complaints as baseless whining.

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I guess it is easier for

them

to rant in ignorance than it is to try to understand what is behind it and that LL really has no choice unless they want to leave themselves open to a huge risk for being held financially liable and possibly face criminal prosecution. In the end, to quote the bard,

most of them

are "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" .and will still be here six months from now.

---

Doesn't sound directed at the singular OP to me.

---

The "^^This" was, which you conveniently left out of the quote above. 

The rest was agreeing with Drake and about all the threads that started off by saying LL was engaged in assorted nefarious conspiracies, posted by people who hadn't taken the time to look into it and just shot from the hip and those that think LL can make its own rules and ignore the law and how the US Treasury Dept. will enforce it.  That is not only baseless whining it is ignorant.  

Don't put words into my mouth that all the posts are ignorant.  Some have been thoughtful and have pointed out that LL could have handled it all better, which I have stated myself.

[Chantal Eun]

Is it really due to those taxs laws or not? Think about it. A change such as those new taxs law or however its called is not instant from day 1 to day 2. Companies would have been informed much earlier. So if that is the case then LL would have been informed as well and would have got the time to inform their tierpaying and premium membership paying customers. Think about it they can spam you with tons of mails saying how good it is to become a premium member but they cant inform you about this. It has to be done with a forced accepting of a new tos without any other information whatsoever. That really makes me doubt its the real reason.

 

People use third party exchanges because they have more possibilities of cashing and saver options. its 2013 this year and LL does not even offer internet banking and instant transfers. Ive tried tranferring usd dollars from my account to paypall 4 days ago its still not there. Their system is archaic obsolete and really really out of date. So the third parties wich offer better service has become a competitor to be feared and what to do. Option one update your own system and try to be better then them or option two make sure they are out of the picture. They choose option two and the taxs laws are just a good excuse to do it.

 

 

 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

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Chantal Eun wrote:

Is it really due to those taxs laws or not? Think about it. A change such as those new taxs law or however its called is not instant from day 1 to day 2. Companies would have been informed much earlier. So if that is the case then LL would have been informed as well and would have got the time to inform their tierpaying and premium membership paying customers. 

---

The new ToS don't come into effect for 30 days after we've received the notification, which is presumably why at least three exchanges that I can think of are stiil apparently operating.     

That doesn't explain, of course, why the ToS, on the face of it, apparently say one thing about exchanges and the blog post (and, apparently, emails from LL) say something different.    But I attribute that to the fact that, as communicators, LL make great housebricks.

[RiiCassidy]

I'll disagree with you in many ways here. It's not OUR job to support LL upfront, when they get their paychecks do they give us anything ? No, if that happened, then ofcourse I would support them upfront. None of us are apart of the developing team or get special treatment and only log on once a week so why should we throw our extra cash to support more than we do on a daily basis. We already support by paying the overly ridiculous tiers on land, paying for premium, they also get paid through TPE's rather anyone wants to mention it or not, maybe not as much, but they still get a huge ammount from it. Its better to get something, than nothing and thats where Secondlife is going. Yes it will always be here but with who, 10x the grifers we complain about now and double the size of children and predators? Basically, we support alot more than LL might think we do or claim we do. Regardless without us, they wouldn't have anything, so why not give us this small thing.

While anyone can agree with me or disagree with me, this is how i feel that i support. All these changes are only making the economy worst.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

Rommanno wrote:

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

So, everyone wants to use SL but no one wants to support the company running it... If you read all of the other threads like this you would realize this was done in accordance to new US laws about money laundering.. This is soundong more and more like the rants that came out when Age play was banned.. Suck it up.

---

^^This.

I guess it is easier for them to rant in ignorance than it is to try to understand what is behind it and that LL really has no choice unless they want to leave themselves open to a huge risk for being held financially liable and possibly face criminal prosecution.  In the end, to quote the bard, most of them are "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" .and will still be here six months from now.

---

It is very mature to call arguments of others "ranting in ignorance"? Because everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant apparently. Ironically, this makes you look like an ignorant child yourself.  People have lost or will lose their hard earned money. Ranting is what you would expect. And Linden Lab didn't handle this well at all. Lack of payment methods on Lindex is a very good reason for some users to be concerned about the future of SL, as well.

---

 

It is ranting in ignorance to put forth conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with the issue at hand such as your thread "One nasty conspiracy theory regarding the TOS change" which was pure conjecture about LL's motives on your part without a shred of evidence and that conjecture was obviously made without bothering to really look at the true reasons and understand them or worse yet to ignore them. That is what is childish.

I have stated in several threads that I never said LL could not have handled it better, and I will stately clearly now that I have no problem with a good rant based on the actual issue, facts and/or evidence.  Neither do I have a problem with anyone that wants to disagree with me.  In fact I welcome it if their doing so is also based on verifiable evidence or facts about the actual issues.

As far as people losing hard earned money, the only ones who have so far are those that have panicked and cancelled their account immediately.  People would be wise to wait and see if LL does expand the methods available for cashing out or they explore all their options, including getting a PayPal account strictly to use for this purpose, as PayPal is available world wide except for a very few countries and if not available a bank wire may be requested. To my knowledge, you don't need a verified PayPal account to just cash out only to purchase L's.

Doing business in SL has always had its risks for everyone.  LL has always had in their TOS that they reserve the right to pull the plug on it all or change anything about the service without notice.  They have also always advised that if you rely on TPE's you do so at your own risk.

[Aethelwine]

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Lolita029 Magic wrote:

Hello,

 

with horror

yesterday I

confirmed

the new

LL

TOS

.

For me

now

, the question arises

how can I

buy

Linden

dollars.

Linden Lab

provides

only accept Paypal

and

credit card and

I need to verify

a

Paypal payment

with my credit card

my

account.

I live in

Austria

(Europe) and

August 2008

VirWoX

have

are

used as

currency exchange.

There I

was able to make

a

direct

transfer

from my

bank account

,

now

I can not

anymore.

I'll

have to give up

my horses

and dogs

breeding

, my

home

country

and my

country and

my

breeding

SL

premium account

.

It is a pity

that

Linden Lab

does not think

that too

many Europeans

are

ingame

and

stimulate the

SL

economy.

 

I hope

this is understandable

in about

,

I use the

goggle

translated

, because my

English

is very bad

, and

obviously

there is only

an English

SL

forum

.

 

LG

Loli

---

That does seem to be the main issue not being understood. I have only rarely used third party exchanges, but I know others who depend on them because Lindex and PayPal have never accepted any method of payment they can use or have been unable to make them work.

 

[Freya Mokusei]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

The "^^This" was, which you conveniently left out of the quote above.

The rest was agreeing with Drake and about all the threads that started off by saying LL was engaged in assorted nefarious conspiracies, posted by people who hadn't taken the time to look into it and just shot from the hip and those that think LL can make its own rules and ignore the law and how the US Treasury Dept. will enforce it.  That is not only baseless whining it is ignorant.  

Don't put words into my mouth that

all

the posts are ignorant.  Some have been thoughtful and have pointed out that LL could have handled it all better, which I have stated myself.

---

 No words were put in your mouth, I was asking for clarification. Wasn't an attack, I was curious. It isn't necessary to quote everything you said, although you can be sure I read it.

You agreed (with your 'this ^^') with someone making pretty silly, deliberately trolling comments and generalisations. I expect that kind of thing from them, they have a reputation already. Was not used to seeing it from you.

Not sure you can fairly blame the userbase for shooting from the hip; services (perhaps even jobs) have been lost over this, I'm sure user-operated businesses will be affected too, and content will stop being available for purchase. And all they have to go on is a blogpost that no-one seems able to write accurately, and a vague, swiss-cheese style ToS. Most of the users affected don't seem to be from the US, it seems unfair to call them ignorant for not being familiar with US Treasury Regulations. LL haven't even confirmed that the two are connected.

But okay then, I guess.

[Lolita029 Magic]

Yesterday I tried my Paypal account to my Second Life account to connect, the problem is simply that you need a credit card for this, since my need to verify the payment via Paypal with this, I think the most Europeans have a problem with that.

One question I ask myself, but my RL husband has a credit card with second name is called differently than if I used his card to verifizerien Linden Lab then throws me against credit card fraud. Because the second name does not match with whom I am registered with the credit card holder?

(translate with google^^)

[Trinity Yazimoto]

if you have his permission there is not fraud at all... its his card... he can choose to use it as he wants, and so on your account aswell.

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Ich denke, das kann Probleme machen, weil die Namen nicht passen. Ich weiß nicht, wie streng LL das handhabt.
Alternative: Eine Prepaid-Kreditkarte. Kostet 10 - 30 Euro pro Jahr und kann jederzeit per Ueberweisung beladen werden.
Linden Lab gegenueber verhaelt sie sich genauso wie eine normale Kreditkarte. Man muß nur genuegend Geld draufgeladen haben, um einen Kauf komplett zu decken. Andernfalls wird der Kauf abgelehnt. Das muß man beachten.
Wenn du nur L$ kaufen willst, reicht die Kreditkarte, PayPal ist nur notwendig, wenn du L$ in reales Geld zuruecktauschen und ausgezahlt haben willst.

I think, it could create issues, since the names don't match, I don't know, how stringent LL is about this.
Alternative: A prepaid creditcard, cost 10 to 30 euros per year, can be loaded via bank transfer and behaves like a normal creditcard towards LL. Only point to observe, there must be enough funds on the card for a purchase, otherwise that purchase is refused. For buying L$, the creditcard should be sufficient, pay out from the SL-Account need PayPal.

 

[Lolita029 Magic]

Yesterday I ingame read one woman from florida problems had to buy a prepay credit card Linden and if so is the self that Linden Lab bans then I wonder what else you can do, not everyone can get a credit card, there are people get the different reasons a bank account, all of these markets from Linden Lab SL.

I have some European Simowner (the hundreds Sims) is that they all give up because it is not possible for them to exchange euros in Linden, LL does not think of what that means for your business, you could also come to the idea that all this is done intentionally to ruining the company, speculation I know, I am very angry!

 

Ich habe gestern ingame gelesen das eine frau aus florida probleme hatte mit einer Prepay Kreditkarte Linden zu kaufen und wenn das so ist das selbst das LindenLab verbietet dann frage ich mich was man sonst noch tun kann, nicht jeder kann sich eine Kreditkarte besorgen, es gibt Leute die aus unterschiedlichen Gruenden kein Bankkonto bekommen, all diese vertreibt LindenLab aus SL.

Ich habe von einigen Europaeischen Simowner (die hunderte Sims haben ) gehoert das sie alle aufgeben, da es ihnen nicht moeglich ist Euro in Linden zu tauschen, denkt LL nicht darueber nach was das fuer ihre Firma bedeutet, man koennte auch auf den Gedanken kommen das das alles absichtlich gemacht wird um das Unternehmen zu runieren, Spekulation ich weiss, ich bin sehr veraergert!

[Trinity Yazimoto]

it doesnt create issue

 

ETA : and besides, if it become an issue one day, you ll just have to ask your husband to create an account and to buy the l$ for you, then to send them to your avi. and to log off.

you can buy anything on the web with your credit card no matter the order is for you or not,  as long you agree for your card to be used (this mean you provide all the info that are asked when you fill the info about your card. infos that you are supposed to be the only one to know).

ETA 2 : i recently helped a rl friend who doesnt know to use a comp, for buying an accessorie for her rl dog. it was done on the website of a known rl merchant. She used her bf credit card (with his agreement of course), the order was on my friend name, the card was on her bf name... AFAIK the accessory for the dog has been delivered without pb, and the money taken from her bf account.. everyone was happy, the merchant was paid and made a sale, my friend had her accessory, her bf was happy for her gf and well the dog was a lil less happy since it was a collar lol...

 

[Melita Magic]

Perhaps some enterprising SL residents will begin a business something like a personal shopper. You pay them something, and they will use their CC to send you things from marketplace or in world vendors as a gift.

However, the land owners will have a very rough time of it staying in the game, unless LL does something for them somehow.

[xyla12]

linden purchase not unavailble...im really sad of this.....

linden lab.. please.. im beggin u... i dont have work to buy sl linden use paypal or

credit card... i just use mol point or linden use for my sl account

my heart is break when i know this...im really frustated....

[Eddy Bouvier]

I'm for the idea of accepting BitCoins as a primary currency for my goods. If only i got the time to create some code for that, but i can't spare the time.

[JessykaDahl]

Are they tryingto clean up the SEXond Life image that everyone thinks of so they can sell it off to someone who can **bleep** it up worse. Say Microsoft. Turn it into SL/Vista/Windows 8?

A lot of open sim has and is proving itself as aa trusted, more sound place to be. Hmmmm wonder why there are no hyperterminals in SL? Or Vivox is still the archaic mode of using voice in SL?

Grab your life preservers and jump!!!!!!! The ship is going down fast!!!

 

God bless a free, open source, open sim grid area, where you need not ppay for land and prim, which is nothing but server space, at a going rate to match the Obama gas prices and health care fiasco.

 

Philip Linden, you started it all, but the Joseph Stalins you left it to brought it down.

[JessykaDahl]

Oops, I almost forgot.

Don't forget your towel & So long, thanks for all the fish!

[Rhys Goode]

Late to the party....

But the OP wins my nomination for the most incoherent post of the year award.