Why Linden Lab will not get my money anymore.

[Malanya]

I believe the account manager was whomever handles the exchange terminal on their land from the exchange company. I don't know of anyone having a LL acount manager but I could be wrong anything is possible. I came to the same conclusion when I read a similar post that said the same thing as the statemnet above.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Azanor wrote:

 

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

and id like to add that what i have agreed for is for the TOS

i haven t been asked to agreed to any blog....

the box i checked was for the TOS and only the TOS

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The ToS saying that if you use Lindex for your transactions they guarantee the L$ you trade is legitimate, and in case of any fraudulent activity they assume the responsibility. But if you trade L$'s any other way they have no obligations. 

In practical terms if you don't use Lindex from now on they can just accuse you of fraud, take all your assests away, and you can't prove anything since you have got no way of tracking the transactions of the third party you dealt with. 

The blog is just doing a lousy job explaining this.

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the fact they dont want to assume any responsability about trades made on third parties is nothing but normal for me.. its not shocking me and its pure part of the rules.. 

like it has always beenn. the only difference has been they provide the api-risk what wasnt infaillible btw since frauds happened anyway.

here they clearly state they wont assume any responsability for this, and imho this is fair... Would you like to assume the responsability of your neighbourgh regarding to his landlord ? i dont think so.. its not your business.. like its just not ll business to assume responsability for what is happening on third party exchanges..

the blog doesnt say this at all.. its says its forbiden (not allowed) what imply there will be sanctions for the one who will keep trading with third party systems (ETA) while TOS says something completely different .

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Malanya wrote:

I believe the account manager was whomever handles the exchange terminal on their land from the exchange company. I don't know of anyone having a LL acount manager but I could be wrong anything is possible. I came to the same conclusion when I read a similar post that said the same thing as the statemnet above.

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ah well, your explanation would make more sense then....its completely different...

 

 

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Malanya wrote:

I believe the account manager was whomever handles the exchange terminal on their land from the exchange company. I don't know of anyone having a LL acount manager but I could be wrong anything is possible. I came to the same conclusion when I read a similar post that said the same thing as the statemnet above.

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I was not talking about a person owning a single private region with an exchange terminal. I was talking about a person in the top 10 of biggest estate owners. 

[Malanya]

It "may" make sense lol, but it seems only logical since business and/or estate owners don't have any LL account managers that I know of, and I doubt LL would assign anyone to a resident for any reason.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

well then the best should be this person comes here and explain to us what is really happening. 

its not i dont trust you Madeliefste, i have no reason at all to not trust you.. but an info from a "first source" is always preferable since some infos can be lost in transmissions..

i ve been refering all the day long to first source infos, like tos, third parties homepages etc... i think the pb is enough serious for we keep being really carefull and avoid a big panic unjustified. A manager from a third party came in the forum talking about a mail he recieved.. this person then copied and pasted the mail... so we could see what it was about...

i hope you wont take me wrong.. again this has nothing to see with trust in you.. i read your post enough often and i trust in your sincerity.

[Madeliefste Oh]

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Malanya wrote:

It "may" make sense lol, but it seems only logical since business and/or estate owners don't have any LL account managers that I know of, and I doubt LL would assign anyone to a resident for any reason.

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The reason is paying LL more then 100.000 usd a month for tier.

[Malanya]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

yes it was my guess since this morning, but then what about this :

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Updated-Terms-Of-Service/m-p/1998481#M105459

?

if pp are threatened to be banned i dont think pp will dare to try .... admiting this is true of course... (not having doubt about the person who posted it of course, but shes not the one who recieved personaly the mail)

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That post puzzled me greatly.

"I know an estate owner who runs a little exchange as well. He has contacted his account manager for more clarifaction. He was told :

"We will shut down any resident for a violation of the terms of service if we discover they are trading L$ outside of the LindeX. The only authorized exchange is the LindeX."

If they are the Estate owner then who is this 'Acct Mgr?'

Something does not compute?

 

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

The account manager is the contact person at Linden Lab.

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Malanya wrote:

I believe the account manager was whomever handles the exchange terminal on their land from the exchange company. I don't know of anyone having a LL acount manager but I could be wrong anything is possible. I came to the same conclusion when I read a similar post that said the same thing as the statemnet above.

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I was not talking about a person owning a single private region with an exchange terminal. I was talking about a person in the top 10 of biggest estate owners. 

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I misunderstood your reply then as the previous posts said an estate owner who "runs a little exchange"  would not lead me to believe that it would be a big estate owner as it coincides with another post of the same. I also read on pages of the exchange sites that they would shut down any resident using terminals that violated the LL TOS. I have no idea how what type of support  the big estate owners have from LL as stated I wasn't sure if my answer was correct.

[Malanya]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

It "may" make sense lol, but it seems only logical since business and/or estate owners don't have any LL account managers that I know of, and I doubt LL would assign anyone to a resident for any reason.

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The reason is paying LL more then 100.000 usd a month for tier.

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That would make sense.

[Azanor]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

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here they clearly state they wont assume any responsability for this, and imho this is fair... Would you like to assume the responsability of your neighbourgh regarding to his landlord ? i dont think so.. its not your business.. like its just not ll business to assume responsability for what is happening on third party exchanges..

the blog doesnt say this at all.. its says its forbiden (not allowed) what imply there will be sanctions for the one who will keep trading with third party systems (ETA) while TOS says something completely different .

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It goes beyond that. LL can come to you and say this or that criminal organization was using the exchange you trade with for money laundering, and the transaction you made with them is part of this illegal activity. The moment you are accused of it, you have got no rights, no way of proving otherwise. According to ToS your rights only remain, and you are only protected if you use Lindex. 

Now at a personal level the person can lose their assests ranging from few dollars to few thousands, but in case of third party exchanges if they are accused of participating in illegal trade their entire trading account can get lost and all the L$ they are handling would be gone. Looking at those big exchanges daily trade volume, they have got too much money at stake. 

The thing is, even if those exchanges keep on operating and take risk, do you think they will cover all the active trade orders out of their pocket if their account gets canceled no matter how do gooder they are?

[Alicia Sautereau]

If all exchanges will go...

I will be selling bears, on my soon to come webshop and ofcourse i will have a tos aswell
As people like bears, not every one wants to own a bear, so i will offer a refund service inworld, but as i need to work to handle it, i will not offer a full refund and implement an administrative fee

I will be selling my cute little plywood friends for only $4,95, but if you are not satisfied or unable to hold them close, i will refund you $4,50 or as a special service as your a second life resident, the option to chose a refund of l$1045

As i am not an exchange and am simply a very nice store owner with a stellar refund policy....

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Malanya wrote:

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I was not talking about a person owning a single private region with an exchange terminal. I was talking about a person in the top 10 of biggest estate owners. 

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 I also read on pages of the exchange sites that they would shut down any resident using terminals that violated the LL TOS.

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yes this is what was in the mail that the third party exchange manager has recieved from LL.. 

and again this is puzzling... regarding to what is writing in the tos...

so really really, nothing makes sense in all of this... 

[Ciaran Laval]

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Malanya wrote:

It "may" make sense lol, but it seems only logical since business and/or estate owners don't have any LL account managers that I know of, and I doubt LL would assign anyone to a resident for any reason.

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This is a large account holder, one of the Top 10 land barons, they have an account manager.

[Ciaran Laval]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

well then the best should be this person comes here and explain to us what is really happening. 

its not i dont trust you Madeliefste, i have no reason at all to not trust you.. but an info from a "first source" is always preferable since some infos can be lost in transmissions..

 

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The source speaks here:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/83054-5-6-tos-change-end-5.html#post1766161

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Azanor wrote:

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It goes beyond that. LL can come to you and say this or that criminal organization was using the exchange you trade with for money laundering, and the transaction you made with them is part of this illegal activity. The moment you are accused of it, you have got no rights, no way of proving otherwise. According to ToS your rights only remain, and you are only protected if you use Lindex. 

Now at a personal level the person can lose their assests ranging from few dollars to few thousands, but in case of third party exchanges if they are accused of participating in illegal trade their entire trading account can get lost and all the L$ they are handling would be gone. Looking at those big exchanges daily trade volume, they have got too much money at stake. 

 

yes, this is what means "do it at your own risks"...

on another hand.. these companies can find ways to secure themselves...its not LL job to do it for them.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

well then the best should be this person comes here and explain to us what is really happening. 

its not i dont trust you Madeliefste, i have no reason at all to not trust you.. but an info from a "first source" is always preferable since some infos can be lost in transmissions..

 

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The source speaks here:

http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/83054-5-6-tos-change-end-5.html#post1766161

 

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thanks a lot Ciaran.. im going to look at this right away.. i wasnt asking more lol...

 

 

 

[Malanya]

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

It "may" make sense lol, but it seems only logical since business and/or estate owners don't have any LL account managers that I know of, and I doubt LL would assign anyone to a resident for any reason.

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This is a large account holder, one of the Top 10 land barons, they have an account manager.

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Appreciate your explaination, Madeliefste explained this as well. As I stated previously I wasn't sure, it was what made sense to me from the posts.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

my bad.. i have completly misunderstood what you said about this estate owner and what LL said to him...

my understandment was really far from this...

but after having read what is said in the other forum, i understand better now lol (thanks Ciaran)..

So it doesnt puzzle me anymore lol

it makes sense that they dont want third parties terminals inworld ...indeed... 

[Malanya]

Trinity this is not directed to you but to the thread. Is Anshex still able to service residents with $L ?

[Ciaran Laval]

AnsheX has no statements about the TOS change and appears to be trading.

Podex also have no statements and appears to be trading.

 

 

[Malanya]

Ty. I didn't see anything on their home web page so I wasn't sure.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2013/05/lindens-no-outside-currency-trading/

[Perrie Juran]

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Malanya wrote:

Trinity this is not directed to you but to the thread. Is Anshex still able to service residents with $L ?

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One of my first thoughts when all this came down was what Anshe Chung must have thought.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Malanya wrote:

Trinity this is not directed to you but to the thread. Is Anshex still able to service residents with $L ?

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I just looked and they are still selling L's.  They don't buy them for RL money though and never did.  However, if LLis serious about closing all exchanges I don't see how they can make an acception for her.

[Malanya]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Malanya wrote:

Trinity this is not directed to you but to the thread. Is Anshex still able to service residents with $L ?

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One of my first thoughts when all this came down was what Anshe Chung must have thought.

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I recall you mentioning that Perrie. So, even though she is the top land baron and has in world presence different than a 3rd party exchange, isn't she still a 3rd party exchange?