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Rachael Aldrin

Updated Terms Of Service

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So I try log in and get the updated terms of service screen, but there aren't any ToS there and the agree box is greyed out. I can't log in or anything because of this. Is anyone else having the same issue. I use FS, but I know others who use the same viewer can log in.

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The blogpost states: As with any legal document, it’s important to read in its entirety before accepting, but we wanted to highlight one of the changes we’ve made in this update.

What are the other changes you made, LL?

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The blog post uses the phrade "authorized or allowed", which has the ring of lawyer-speak to it, and I infer from it that "authorized" and "allowed" are distinct.

The TOS itself doesn't use that phrase. Which seems odd. Realistically the L& is only ever worth what other people will pay for it, but now it seems that the external L$ exchanges are being given the elbow. They are not "authorized", but since Linden Research doesn't guarantee any value for the L$ I am not sure how that makes any difference.

But the Wiki Page on the Exchange Risk API is dead. There's more to this than just a change to the wording of the TOS.

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Two threads going related to this so yes I am repeating myself. 

I posted in this Thread (pops):

 

OK, someone help me out.

The Blog post (pops) states:

"to better protect Second Life users against fraud, the updated Terms of Service make it clear that trading of Linden dollars (L$) on exchanges other than the LindeX, Second Life’s official L$ exchange, is not authorized or allowed."   (my bolding)

But the TOS (pops) still states:

 

5.3 There are other exchanges that are operated by third parties on which Linden dollars are exchanged.

Third party exchanges are not authorized by Linden Lab and Buying or Selling Linden dollars on third party exchanges are not authorized transactions. Third party exchanges are wholly distinct from both the LindeX exchange and Linden Lab and they have no affiliation with Linden Lab. We do not endorse or otherwise guarantee the legitimacy of the Linden dollar transfers offered on them, and we are not liable for purchases of such Linden dollars. Buying or Selling Linden dollars anywhere other than the LindeX is done so solely at your own risk. If you Buy Linden dollars that are traced to unauthorized credit card activity or other fraudulent activity, we will recoup these Linden dollars from your Account. The only authorized exchange is the LindeX.

 

I could find no reference to using them NOT being allowed.  But I have bad eyes and I'm tired.

 

I wonder if someone forgot to update the page with the TOS.

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We're seeing a few similar threads on Answers too. The solution is to install another viewer to the one you're using, take your pick from the latest official viewer (works fine for me in accepting the TOS) to a light text viewer. Once you have accepted the TOS on one viewer, it's universal so just uninstall the new viewer and go back to your regular one.

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The blog tries to make out that buying Linden Dollars from outside parties is not allowed full stop. The blog article seems to imply that buying Linden Dollars from outside suppliers is against the Terms of Service, which would be a big deal for anyone attempting to do so.

The Terms of Service change doesn't look like anything new to me at all. The actual wording effectively says "do so at your own risk."  Did I miss something or did the person who wrote the blog article not think it worth reading the TOS changes before posting?

Given that the TOS is the official document, and the blog is just some "news" story written by someone who didn't check their sources, I think it safe to ignore the blog and carry on as usual.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

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KeiraKeira wrote:

The blog tries to make out that buying Linden Dollars from outside parties is not allowed full stop.  
The blog article seems to imply that buying Linden Dollars from outside suppliers is against the TOS, which would be a big deal for anyone attempting to do so.
.

Agreed and this is where the confusion arises, the blog post suggests that using a third party exchange is against the terms of service, the terms of service themself, as you observed yourself, makes no such claim.


KeiraKeira wrote:

The TOS change doesn't look like anything new to me at all.  The actual wording effectively says "do so at your own risk."  Did I miss something or did the person who wrote the blog article not think it worth reading the TOS changes before posting?

 

Given that the TOS is the official document, and the blog is just some "news" story written by someone who didn't check their sources, I think it safe to ignore the blog and carry on as usual.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

There is a big background change that the blog post doesn't mention. The Risk API, which reputable third party exchanges used to check whether a transaction was considered risky,  appears to have been withdrawn, leaving third party exchanges in an awkward situation and exposed to more risk.

 

 

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KeiraKeira wrote:

The blog tries to make out that buying Linden Dollars from outside parties is not allowed full stop. 
The blog article seems to imply that buying Linden Dollars from outside suppliers is against the Terms of Service, which would be a big deal for anyone attempting to do so.

The Terms of Service change doesn't look like anything new to me at all. The actual wording effectively says "do so at your own risk."  Did I miss something or did the person who wrote the blog article not think it worth reading the TOS changes before posting?

Given that the TOS is the official document, and the blog is just some "news" story written by someone who didn't check their sources, I think it safe to ignore the blog and carry on as usual.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I've been following this in this thread and in the one that dealt with the TOS change specifically. It doesn't apply to me; I have yet to cash anything out and am a US resident so I have options anyway, but it was an interesting conflict of statements.

I think you've nailed it. A blog post is in fact just a blog post. An article. Terms of Service are an actual official definition of terms, and thus the TOS is the be-all and end-all for the question.

I do think after reading all the things quoted that it shows a slight change: LL is stating clearly that they will have nothing to do with any issue whatsoever arising from a TP exchange. With the Risk API business there was the impression they were at least making evaluations. Now they're saying if it goes south it's on you. Enjoy.

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

 

There is a big background change that the blog post doesn't mention. The Risk API, which reputable third party exchanges used to check whether a transaction was considered risky,  appears to have been withdrawn, leaving third party exchanges in an awkward situation and exposed to more risk.



 

Oh, I slightly misunderstood how Risk API worked. So if ecomonics works in this case as it does elsewhere, it would be logical to think cashing out through third party exchanges will soon involve more security proofs and possibly a lesser rate of exchange to alleviate the increased risk to the exchange.

Or am I missing the idea on that?

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

 

I do think after reading all the things quoted that it shows a slight change: LL is stating clearly that they will have nothing to do with any issue whatsoever arising from a TP exchange. With the Risk API business there was the impression they were at least making evaluations. Now they're saying if it goes south it's on you. Enjoy.

My thought also, that LL is washing their hands completely of any responsibility and / or obligation to the Third Party Exchanges and removing the false assumption they were endorsed or approved by LL.

I'm also wondering how much / if any of this is related to a lot of the phishing we have seen recently.  My guess is that the stolen Linden Dollars are all cashed out on the Third Party Exchanges.

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One of the third party exchanges has already stopped taking sell orders whilst they try and get more information regarding what exactly these changes mean.

The Risk API was ran by Linden Lab, they have no obligation to run one, but you'd think they'd clarify the situation with the people who have been using it.

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for your understanding: this is what the topic says...posted by LL:

 

QUOTE:

 

"Updated Second Life Terms of Service

 Linden Lab ‎05-07-2013 10:41 AM - edited ‎05-07-2013 11:55 AM"
 
 
 
 
 

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The title did indeed say that.  Well spotted.

Unfortunately the article content conflicts with the actual changes to the terms.  This thread clarifies that a bit.

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