Mitchell Indigo Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 OK folks. For the past several months by now, I am having a problem where objects are not fully rezzing and some not rezzing at all unless I right click on them. It also doesn't matter what viewer I use either. Not only that, it seems as if the problem is getting worse and worse and yet, LL refuses to do anything to fix this problem. When will this problem ever get fixed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Are Linden Lab refusing to fix this problem? I know that there are major changes taking place; server side baking coming in. Maybe this will help this problem. Unfortunately I was not at Maestro's most recent User Group sessions, but that's the place to be if you want to find out from the horses' mouth what's going on behind the scenes regarding this and other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitchell Indigo Posted May 5, 2013 Author Share Posted May 5, 2013 Who is Maestro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Sautereau Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Ohnoes! If you`ve read the other threads below yours, you would have read several times that they are working on it. Befor you start whining about this comment, i spent 2 hours next to a dev for this problem. As annoying as the bug is and as much every one wants to see it fixed, i guess the issue isn`t that simple to fix or we`d have had a client update already. Hold on to your panties a little longer, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Sorry... should have said ... http://community.secondlife.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/152106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewel Laurasia Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Using the latest Firestorm release, I go into wireframe mode then back to normal and it gets everything rezzed for me. Control + Shift + R will take you into wireframe mode, do it again to get out of it. This is not a fix, nor a gaurantee to work, but is working for many until LL gets a fix in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted May 5, 2013 Share Posted May 5, 2013 Yes it's a known issue. However, there is always the option to file a bug report via: https://jira.secondlife.com/ Now, the Jira has been horrendously nerfed by Linden Lab over the past year, but it still a place where bugs can be reported directly to Linden Lab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerise Sorbet Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Marigold Devin wrote: Are Linden Lab refusing to fix this problem? No. They have a development viewer that appears to fix it, but as of a few days ago it needed some more stability work before it could be pushed closer to release. They need that patch to take advantage of some server side tweaks they are making, so it's definitely not a low priority for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 This is what i've been able to work out on this problem from reading posts and my personal experience: 1) The problem is that viewers don't draw certain objects in their caches when you first arrive at an area you've been to before. It seems to be related to an object being partially in your field of view and partially out of your field of view - since it's partially out of your view the viewer doesn't think it needs to be drawn, but because it's partially IN view the viewer doesn't think of it as a new object when you move your view to see more of it. 2) The problem has been around for a while but has appeared to get worse recently because the server code was recently changed to increase the number of classes of visible objects that can be read from the cache instead of being sent from the servers from scratch. 3) The missing objects will re-appear whenever you force the viewer to re-draw a scene - this can be by zooming way out and then back in, by changing the shader settings in "Preferences" or by going into and out of wireframe mode. Right clicking objects also works because that causes a redraw for those particular objects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd Temin Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 It seems to me that this bug needs to be fixed onthe SERVER side !....... Otherwise all 3rd party viewers will continue to have thiis problem and only the official Linden viewer will work without this bug, Perhaps this is a another subtle method of forcing all residents to use only the official Linden viewer. It seems to me that the Lindens caused this bug on the server side with this new interest interest list method...so it needs to be fixed on the server side. Any comments from the Linden staff would be appreciated....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 dd Temin wrote: It seems to me that this bug needs to be fixed onthe SERVER side !....... Otherwise all 3rd party viewers will continue to have thiis problem and only the official Linden viewer will work without this bug, Perhaps this is a another subtle method of forcing all residents to use only the official Linden viewer. It seems to me that the Lindens caused this bug on the server side with this new interest interest list method...so it needs to be fixed on the server side. Any comments from the Linden staff would be appreciated....... Actually they already have in this thread: Deploys for the week of 2013-04-01 (pops) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inara Pey Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 As others have commented, this is a known issue, and the Lab are working on a fix. Commenting on the situation at the last SL Simulator User Group meeting (Tues May 1st), Andrew Liden said: We think maybe it is fixed in a new viewer. But this new viewer I mention happens to be very crashy, so we haven’t opened up the source code for it yet nor have we submitted it to our QA team since they’ll just crash … This is the viewer that goes with our new interest list changes which I mentioned a few weeks ago and people were wondering when the code would be put up on a public repo. ...So we're all going to have to wait a little while longer for the fix to emerge. In the meantime there are a number of ways to work around the issue: Right-click on the space where you know prims are missing (useful if you're somewhere you're familiar with and / or the missing prims are fairly obvious by their absence) Using CTRL-SHIFT-R to toggle wireframe on and then off Toggling Atmospheric Shaders off / on via Preferences > Graphics (or via Phototools if you use Firestorm and use Phototools via the toolbar button) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Inara Pey wrote: As others have commented, this is a known issue, and the Lab are working on a fix. Commenting on the situation at the last SL Simulator User Group meeting (Tues May 1st), Andrew Liden said: We think maybe it is fixed in a new viewer. But this new viewer I mention happens to be very crashy, so we haven’t opened up the source code for it yet nor have we submitted it to our QA team since they’ll just crash … This is the viewer that goes with our new interest list changes which I mentioned a few weeks ago and people were wondering when the code would be put up on a public repo. ...So we're all going to have to wait a little while longer for the fix to emerge. In the meantime there are a number of ways to work around the issue: Right-click on the space where you know prims are missing (useful if you're somewhere you're familiar with and / or the missing prims are fairly obvious by their absence) Using CTRL-SHIFT-R to toggle wireframe on and then off Toggling Atmospheric Shaders off / on via Preferences > Graphics (or via Phototools if you use Firestorm and use Phototools via the toolbar button) What really is frustrating and I don't understand is they have made changes to the Servers but they don't have a Viewer go with those changes. I just hope it gets fixed and fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayesha Askham Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Perrie I am going to hazard a guess here...I don't think Andrew had expected that his interest list work would cause/amplify this bug, so the viewer team were not appraised of the need to create one. One of course then asks why in God's Name Andrew didn't do the testing of this code properly? The answer seems to be that the minimal testing done was done on the Beta Grid on sims that most likely contain very few prims and the bug was simply not noticed! From my viewpoint this calls into question the validity of testing done by LL developers prior to new code releases. It is simply not FIT FOR PURPOSE. The number of rollbacks needed lately would tend to support my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Ayesha Askham wrote: Perrie I am going to hazard a guess here...I don't think Andrew had expected that his interest list work would cause/amplify this bug, so the viewer team were not appraised of the need to create one. One of course then asks why in God's Name Andrew didn't do the testing of this code properly? The answer seems to be that the minimal testing done was done on the Beta Grid on sims that most likely contain very few prims and the bug was simply not noticed! From my viewpoint this calls into question the validity of testing done by LL developers prior to new code releases. It is simply not FIT FOR PURPOSE. The number of rollbacks needed lately would tend to support my view. Which I do understand. To a degree. The amplification of the problem may not have reared its ugly head on their computers. I did once ask Torley what computers they used at the Lab and he said "a lot of different ones." I'd still be curious what they use. Really, I am still of the opinion that most of the Devs at LL don't have Second Lives or as a group they would see these problems faster quality control not withstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 dd Temin wrote: It seems to me that this bug needs to be fixed onthe SERVER side !....... Otherwise all 3rd party viewers will continue to have thiis problem and only the official Linden viewer will work without this bug, Perhaps this is a another subtle method of forcing all residents to use only the official Linden viewer. No, third party viewers will be fine because they will be able to implement the same fix to their viewers that Linden lab implement, Linden Lab won't make the fix secret when it comes to viewer developers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cincia Singh Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Perrie Juran wrote: ... " Really, I am still of the opinion that most of the Devs at LL don't have Second Lives ..." Exactly ... nor do I think devs with busy SL inworld accounts would accomplish much given what happened to the devs who got too cozy with residents in the past. I think its better the devs stick to their code writing and let the residents tell them when something is less than optimal. Because in the scheme of things SL works much better now than it ever has and the annoyances we all mention in the forums are just that ... annoyances, not deal breakers, and anyone who thinks they are would never have survived the way the grid operated (frequently it didn't operate at all) 2003 - 2007. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Cincia Singh wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: ... " Really, I am still of the opinion that most of the Devs at LL don't have Second Lives ..." Exactly ... nor do I think devs with busy SL inworld accounts would accomplish much given what happened to the devs who got too cozy with residents in the past. I think its better the devs stick to their code writing and let the residents tell them when something is less than optimal. Because in the scheme of things SL works much better now than it ever has and the annoyances we all mention in the forums are just that ... annoyances, not deal breakers, and anyone who thinks they are would never have survived the way the grid operated (frequently it didn't operate at all) 2003 - 2007. I understand that 'keeping it professional' can be a challenge. But there is also nothing to stop them from playing amongst themselves at times. Get four of them on a sail boat and let them navigate the Blake Sea for an hour. Have them go flying or try to drive down Mainland Roads on a Motorcycle. Send them out shopping for clothes and see what it's like to use In World Search and/or the Market Place. The fact that they got so far in developing CHUI thinking there was no need for a Chat Bar is too far in the extreme of not having them involved with some In World activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orca Flotta Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 The fact that they got so far in developing CHUI thinking there was no need for a Chat Bar is too far in the extreme of not having them involved with some In World activities. Zacly Perrie, if any of them codepunks thinks that communication via chat is a just nice bonus only and regards some extra mouseclicks they are definately in the wrong world. Chatbar must be visible, accesible and open all the time! Else how are we sposed to shout a loud F.C.U.K. once we're knocked out by a simborder? P.S.: see what I did there? How elegantly I tricked the censor system? :smileyhappy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marigold Devin Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Orca Flotta wrote: The fact that they got so far in developing CHUI thinking there was no need for a Chat Bar is too far in the extreme of not having them involved with some In World activities. Zacly Perrie, if any of them codepunks thinks that communication via chat is a just nice bonus only and regards some extra mouseclicks they are definately in the wrong world. Chatbar must be visible, accesible and open all the time! Else how are we sposed to shout a loud F.C.U.K. once we're knocked out by a simborder? P.S.: see what I did there? How elegantly I tricked the censor system? :smileyhappy: I fvcking love it :matte-motes-big-grin-wink::matte-motes-agape::matte-motes-wink-tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 This keeps getting thrown back on the server, and specifically the recent interestlist changes. Those changes did introduce some problems that interfere with rendering certain things in certain situations (fixes for which are detailed in the release notes), but the larger problem of unrendered hunks of objects that appear instantly when right-clicked is almost certainly a viewer problem, and has been around since long before any interestlist changes. It does appear to have gotten worse recently, but I suspect that's merely a side-effect of server changes causing the viewer bug to occur more often or more persistently. Even Jessica Lyon in a recent interview (approx. 20:00 into the video) attributes this to interestlist changes, but I guarantee that the problem would still occur, if not quite as often, even if all those changes were reverted. I'm reasonably sure that the LL viewer devs are looking for the real fix here, while the server devs continue to clean up the rare edge-cases where the new interestlist code really is missing stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Qie Niangao wrote: This keeps getting thrown back on the server, and specifically the recent interestlist changes. Those changes did introduce some problems that interfere with rendering certain things in certain situations (fixes for which are detailed in the release notes), but the larger problem of unrendered hunks of objects that appear instantly when right-clicked is almost certainly a viewer problem, and has been around since long before any interestlist changes. It does appear to have gotten worse recently, but I suspect that's merely a side-effect of server changes causing the viewer bug to occur more often or more persistently. Even Jessica Lyon in a recent interview (approx. 20:00 into the video) attributes this to interestlist changes, but I guarantee that the problem would still occur, if not quite as often, even if all those changes were reverted. I'm reasonably sure that the LL viewer devs are looking for the real fix here, while the server devs continue to clean up the rare edge-cases where the new interestlist code really is missing stuff. Going back to Andrew's explanation, what it amounts to was that there was a tiny **bleep** (eta: I don't believe that c.h.i.n.k. got bleeped!) in the Viewer that has now opened up into a big gaping hole. The Server is doing it's job correctly, the Viewer is asleep at the wheel. "What has changed is that the server is now treating much more content as "cacheable". The server's definition of cacheable used to be something like: "is static and does not have a script". The new definition of cacheable is: "has not changed position or appearance in the last couple minutes". The viewer bug must exist inside the code that retrieves object data from cache and is more noticeable now because the viewer-side object cache tends to be bigger. I've brought the problem to the attention of one of the developers who is working on some viewer-side changes that will compliment the next server-side interestlist changes (*), so we hope to figure it out soon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd Temin Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 "rare edge-cases" ?? you've got to be kidding. You call totally borking up sim crossings for all vehicles a rare edge case? Yes..i know its mostly fixed now.. but it was not a rare edge-case when ruined sl vehicle enjoyment for 2 to 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Do we think the vehicle sim-crossing problems were associated with the interestlist changes? It could be; I honestly don't know. Over the past seven years that I've been in SL, the intervals during which vehicles could reliably cross sim borders have been so brief that I've rarely noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted May 7, 2013 Share Posted May 7, 2013 Ah those word filters, we're back to having Dick Van **bleep** censored I see, well partially censored, at one stage it was **Bleep** Van **Bleep** then they fixed it but now it's Dick Van **bleep**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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