LL please make surveys its own forum

[Melita Magic]

Surveys really, really are clogging up other forums.

Many here see and experience the constant 'survey' topics as a form of spam.

Many here are annoyed by the constant 'survey' topics.

Most people who post survey topics are only here for that purpose and never contribute again to SL or to the forums. None have as yet returned with updates regarding their survey.

If LL must allow the constant survey topics which seem to pester resident members, please, sequester it to its own forum. That way, when people feel like answering surveys or reading the millionth survey request, they can. 

And the rest of us can be left alone.

Thoughts, everyone?

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I'm not a survey fan.......in fact, I've been known to sort of come down on the "survey takers".  But I can't quite go to the extreme of segregating them to there own forum or section.  As long as they are contained in the "General Discussion" section I don't have much of a problem.  It's pretty easy to spot them and even easier to scroll past them.  And, occasionally I will open a thread that is obviously some "survey"........mostly because someone responded (I seldom miss a chance to throw my two lindens into the hat so if someone answered then I think maybe I can have some fun ).  It's the occasional survey that finds it's way to "Answers" for something that irk me enough to get nasty with my response.

Surveys?  Just scroll past them..........people will get the hint if after a few hours their survey is near the bottom of the page and no responses (and, ideally, no views either. 

[mikka Luik]

Wheres the plus button:) Also a sub cat for 'do my survey get paid - honest*

Would be a fun thing too.. And to those who make the effort to provide details of the whys and wherefores - thank you

[Tari Landar]

Eh, personally, I skim past them, for the most part. But sometimes I like reading them just to see what people have to say to the survey taker. It can be quite amusing. Ok, maybe only amusing to me, lol.

I have taken a few of the surveys I've seen over the years too. In fact, one that I took a couple years ago opened up an opportunity for me to help someone with quality control. Was quite nice, since it brought in some play money here and there. Some people that do the surveys do actually pay people to take them. Ok, not most, and really the money is less than a drop in the ocean for many people, but it's still kinda nifty when it happens.

[Janelle Darkstone]

I very much support this idea.  I also don't think anyone conducting a survey will be bothered to read on on all the other subforums before posting to the appropriate one and will drop it here in the GDF anyway.  :smileysad:

( ...and the mods will probably move it to Inworld Employment like they do everything else. )

[LepreKhaun]

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Melita Magic wrote:

...

Thoughts, everyone?

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ahhh, a metasurvey it is then!

[Melita Magic]

Ack! No - more like a rant with optional poll attached.

Thanks for the posts everyone. 

Those who like to read surveys could still do so if they were in their own forum. 

[Paul Hexem]

I can get behind this idea. It's got my vote.

[Czari Zenovka]

LOVE the idea!!  Great thinking, Melita.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I like the idea. 

[Ceka Cianci]

once in awhile is not bad..but wow when you get a few at a time coming in..

bleh.

they need their own section..

they should be in like the help wanted section anyways..

 

[Maryanne Solo]

I second the notion.

In 4 years I have only responed to 1 and that was in the last week.

I did so because I know people who work at that institution

and I am involved in those institutions in this country.

Melita is right. So is leprechaun - dont know if i spelt that right.

So where's my free stuffs and a bundle of lindens AND a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow??

lol. :smileytongue:

[VRprofessor]

My only objection to the posting of survey requests is that they are primarily last-ditch efforts by students short on time who are too lazy to go to the library.   In about 7 out of 8 such postings I complain that the student hasn't gotten IRB approval for their survey as evidenced by the absence of more-or-less standard boiler plate language in the postings asking for folks to participate.

(I won't even get started on my rant about asking people to answer potentially sensitive questions on a public forum. Talk about an ethical nightmare.)

I am very sympathetic to those who go through proper channels and are making an effort to conduct their research in an ethical manner--even if their survey/research is of poor design--they are at least observing the general standards of ethical research practice which is a lesson unto it self.  About 1 in 8 research request postings are such.  

In another thread a couple of months back I suggested the idea of a "survey question data base."  Someone with some knowledge of survey design could develop a large survey instrument and make the anonomyzed response available in an online data base.  Students making last ditch efforts at term papers could be directed to the database. 

No one responded to that idea, but it was posted late in a thread that was getting old so I'm not surprised.  Any comments on the idea here? 

[Perrie Juran]

 

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VRprofessor wrote:

In another thread a couple of months back I suggested the idea of a "survey question data base."  Someone with some knowledge of survey design could develop a large survey instrument and make the anonomyzed response available in an online data base.  Students making last ditch efforts at term papers could be directed to the database. 

No one responded to that idea, but it was posted late in a thread that was getting old so I'm not surprised.  Any comments on the idea here? 

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Several years ago I heard the Dean of my College lament about the decline of Liberal Arts in Universities.  He said and I am paraphrasing, "We are stuffing our students with knowledge but failing to teach them HOW to think analytically."

It reminds me also of a conversation I had with the Office Mangager where I worked.  She'd been in the position for 25 years.  She had just spent several hours picking up the slack for several new hires.  She told me that it was getting nuts.  She stated that all these new hires had all the technical skills but none of them knew how to organize a job.  "I'm having to mother these kids, I never used to have to do that."

So handing these students the Cliff Notes for work they should have been doing is a bad idea.  Let them flunk the class and learn.

 

[Janelle Darkstone]

Ethics.

Ethics ethics ethics you sure like that word, don't you?

I have a word for you; perspective.

Maybe you'll get the point some day.

[VRprofessor]

Pierre,

We fundamentally agree.  Our one difference is in the value of a survey question database.

It is recommended practice in statistics education to make use of real data from existing sources rather than pretend data made up for chapter exercises.  The notion is that real data requires the exercise of real thought resulting in real learning.  q

For research papers the student who insists on using survey data and lacks proper supervision is learning nothing.  With a database of responses to properly constructed questions there is a chance that the student will need to learn some problem solving skills to determine which questions can be used to address their "research" questions.   As for the rest, well they won't learn any more than they would have pestering the forums for answers, but the forum folks can more easily ignore the repeated requests for survey participation. 

 

[VRprofessor]

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Janelle Darkstone wrote:

Ethics.

Ethics ethics ethics you sure like that word, don't you?

I have a word for you;

perspective

.

Maybe you'll get the point some day.

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Yes, one of the topics I teach is research ethics so it is rather important to me.  

I have no idea what message you are trying to convey with the "perspective" link.    Are you saying that I shouldn't worry about a student failing a course or getting booted from uni because there is slave labor in the world?    

 

[Janelle Darkstone]

Some things matter.

A lot of things don't, not quite as much.

Focusing so much effort and attention on "ethical" surveys of ultimately meaningless nonsense is one of those things that, when it comes right down to it, don't really matter.

I suppose I'm just offended by your use (and overuse) of the word 'ethics'... it's obvious it means very different things to each of us.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Sooooooooooooo....there are things that matter and things that don't matter.  That's true.  But I'm reading that you think ethics is one of those things that don't matter.  Ethics is perhaps one of the things that matter most.  In fact, I've read some of your posts relating to the importance of ethics.......Linden Lab and your thoughts on how they do business ring any bells (that relates heavily on ethics).  If you cannot trust the surveyor (or researcher) you are, at the very least, dealing with an ethics issue.  Maybe what you are objecting to with VR's post is that he is concerned with the students' ethics in relation to the course of study.......that probably does not apply to you directly (though it could if that surveyor is less than honest with you concerning privacy).  But it does apply to the quality of the survey and, in turn, the quality of the educational value that the student is seeking.  Just think of the surveyor asking for interviews here, today, moves on to medical research in the future......and the student failed to learn what an ethical survey is all about.  I would imagine that research (based upon surveys) would be much less valid (and more likely to be inaccurate).  What type of harm could that student inflict upon society?

I just wanted to jump in because I see you objecting to VR's concern with the quality of the research.  Though that's probably irrelevant to the topic, it is a very valid point.  Obviously you think otherwise......but you are arguing non-sense.  Ethics matter...........ethics matter all the time (not sometimes).  What VR posted doesn't matter in relation to this topic but what he said does matter.  And you are saying what he says doesn't matter (or maybe only sometimes)  On the topic I believe you and VR are not so far apart (perhaps less far apart than you and I.....the survey requests don't bother me enough to want a separate section in the forums and, evidently they do for you).

[Janelle Darkstone]

I'll admit I have no idea what you're getting at, Peggy.

It's a matter of ethics and perspective.  And, in my opinion, a student from some university coming in a forum and asking, perhaps, why do we, as consumers, so freely purchse things from China and a dozen other places without giving a moment's thought to the people who are forced to manufacture those things for us so we can get a good price?

That's my interpretation of the word 'ethics', morally right and wrong.  Humanity, the real world.

But instead we get surveys asking about our time spent online and if our avatars look like us, and a hundred other meaningless questions that have been asked so many times before, and gentlemen like the professor flailing their arms in panic as to whether the survey is being conducted ethically or not.

If all these colleges and universities really cared, they'd have their students studying, and learning, and working toward fixing what's broken in our world, the Real World, here and now.  Not spending their precious time staring, with binoculars, into the stupid fishbowl that is Second Life.

Is common sense dead?

[Marigold Devin]

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Janelle Darkstone wrote:

... into the stupid fishbowl that is Second Life.

Is common sense dead?

---

 

Not quite yet, but its flailing and floundering like the fish out of water.

 

[Marigold Devin]

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Melita Magic wrote:

Surveys really, really are clogging up other forums.

Many here see and experience the constant 'survey' topics as a form of spam.

Many here are annoyed by the constant 'survey' topics.

Most people who post survey topics are only here for that purpose and never contribute again to SL or to the forums. None have as yet returned with updates regarding their survey.

If LL must allow the constant survey topics which seem to pester resident members, please, sequester it to its own forum. That way, when people feel like answering surveys or reading the millionth survey request, they can. 

And the rest of us can be left alone.

Thoughts, everyone?

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I can totally understand where you're coming from, like the people who put stickers on their mailbox saying "no junk mail to be posted here" (but it still comes through anyway).

Although some days, when there is a 'z' in the month, I might choose to look at a survey, and the defensive responses on these forums are often an amusing little distraction while waiting for a meaty Answers topic to happen along.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Janelle Darkstone wrote:

Is common sense dead?

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I'm working on it. These things take time.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

I suppose I knew all along that you would have no idea what I'm talking about.  You have an agenda that is totally unrelated to the topic and unrelated to what someone posted.  You don't see the importance of ethics in education.......well, unless those ethics fit your agenda anyway.

Universities and educational institutions are tasked with educating.  Yeah that task does include things like "righting wrongs" in the world.  However, in order to right any wrong one must have some knowledge about both the wrong and ways to correct the wrong.  That requires ethics in education (which is what VR was addressing).  Surveys are one tool to gain knowledge of both what and how to fix......and surveys without ethics are not going to get a fix because nothing can trusted without ethics.

Fixing the world's problems (which seems to be your passion) might require surveys.  Would you not like those surveys to be a trusted source of knowledge so that a fix can be initiated and done?  You're saying no.  I'm saying yes (and so is VR, as far as I can tell).

Then, again, how does slaves in China relate to Linden Lab providing a designated sub-forum for surveys?  The topic is very general in nature.....nothing was said about China or whether or not colleges and universities really cared.  It seems to me that, at least one, (professed Professor) cares.  And you are arguing with him (and me too because I see what is trying to be said.........you obviously don't).

[Janelle Darkstone]

If it's my "agenda", then I'm proud to have it.

Beyond that, I don't think I have any more to say.