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Christina Halpin

Hypnosis Ethics

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I am interested in the Ethics of Hypnosis.

 

If there can be such a thing. No one seems to agree on anything except that we should be nice.

 

It seems serious to me. If someone will go into a deep trance for me, and if they actually want to be abused and controlled, because they  are submissive, well... I am nice. But what about other people?

 

And most people aren't evil. But if they put junk into someone's mind, can't that add up? I knew someone with like 20 triggers. Isn't that a problem?

 

Anyway, talk to me?

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Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to hypnotize someone outside of a controlled environment?

What happens if one of the triggers goes off while they are driving? or they hurt their kids because of it? Do you really want that on your conscience?

Only trained professionals should be hypnotizing anyone. And you certainly shouldn't be doing it on SL. What happens if they pass out in RL? How do you call 911 for someone you have no RL info on?

There is a difference between being a submissive in SL and being an idiot in RL. I have heard of people in SL preforming auto-erotic asphyxiation in RL on themselves with no one around to help them if something goes wrong. Why? Because their SL "Master" told them to. People in SL need to use their brains for more than getting off. 

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It is actually simple

It isn't ethical to do  if you are not a trained professional

If you are, it isn't ethical to do in SL

If you are a professional and doing it in SL it is ethical to take whatever license or professional certification you hold away from you.

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I had a sub in RL who uses hypnotic MP3s to better be a sub. I have always been against hypnosis. I have expierienced first hand that when she is in her trance, it is impossible to wake her up. if you dont know the safe trigger or triggers. Like anything in D/s there sould always be a safe word or some safety thing put into place. 

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Okay, there are a LOT of misunderstanding here.  I'll try to clear it up, being a hypnotherapist and hypnotist for over 20 years.  In reply to the following....

 

@TariChar:  Yes, it can work even in SL.  Hypnosis is possible whenever there is communication.  Whether that is in-person, over the phone, voice-chat, or even text.  It's possible for an email to hypnotize someone.  Now, it varies WILDLY from person to person how suggestible and how succeptible they are.....And like most population-based things, it follows a bell-curve on each.  It also requires a certain level of cooperation and active participation, so 'just reading' the words or 'just listening' isn't quite enough.

 

@Drake1 & @Amethyst:  Hypnosis is not dangerous per-se.  People go in and out of hypnotic states throughout the day naturally.  And no-one ever got 'stuck' in hypnosis for very long.  ANY subject, even in a deep (or esdaile) trance will come out of it in a few hours with no direction to stay in it.  Also, I think you are basic your opinions on theraputic work, not recreational hypnosis (yes, that's what most people in SL are looking for.)

Hypnosis in SL is not 'unetheical'.  What is done by many SL hypnotists often is.  Sometimes intentionally, sometimes simply due to inexperience or ignorance.  NOBODY should be doing hypnosis (in SL or RL) without a basic grounding in psychology (which means more than just reading books or taking an introductory course in college.)  They should also have basic training in hypnosis, knowing how to deal with abreactions and such.

A dangerous suggestion almost always is short-circuited, Drake1.  Most hypnotists know to qualify suggestions which could have unwanted effects with 'as long as it is safe to do so'.  This is where finding experienced and skilled hypnotists is important.  And if someone 'passes out' from hypnosis, they'll wake up just fine in a little while.

Amethyst, it is NOT unethical to use hypnosis via online means (whether SL or other interaction) anymore than it is to use it via Skype or over the phone.  Is it unethical for a physician to make a diagnosis or prescribe medication over the phone, or via telepresence?  Of course not.  And hypnosis (due to its very nature) is considerably less regulated.  Now, no one expects a physician to perform sugery over the phone.  And no one should expect a hypnotist to perform serious hypnotherapy over the phone (or other online medium) either.  Trying to do so DOES hit the boundaries of ethics, but there are factors that may need to be considered.  And 'taking away the license' of someone on such a case really shows you aren't aware of the complexity of these issues.

 

And lastly, to @Christina Halpin:

Yes, there are certainly ethics in hypnosis.  The big one is "you don't do anything the subject hasn't specifically ASKED you to do."  And that means BEFORE hypnotizing them.  Another is "you don't do anything that will cause mental, emotional, or physical harm."  And that requires the hypnotist to be aware of a lot of things BEFORE hypnotizing the subject.  That's what pre-talks and interviews beforehand are for.

Being 'evil' is a point of view.  To the person who WANTS to be abused and controlled, someone being nice when they agreed to do it is 'evil'.....like the old joke about the masochist who begs "beat me!" and the sadist says ".....no."  The thing to do is to give them what they want, while keeping it safely within agreed upon boundaries.  Knowing the right questions to ask beforehand takes a bit of learning and experience.

Yes, 'stuff' done hypnotically DOES add up in a person's mind.  Now, with most people, suggestions will fade with time, especially if they aren't reinforced regularly.  Conditioning can be used to make them more 'permanent', but that's going into the realm of behavior modification, and that should be HEAVILY negotiated beforehand, as it can seriously impact the subjects RL as well.  Things that only affect them when 'in SL' are naturally a bit more flexible in this regard....but the quantity of suggestions a subject may be operating under isn't really a problem until some of them start to overlap or conflict, which can result in a variety of problems.  And the more that are left 'hanging around' the more likely some will interact or conflict with another.

 

@All

Hypnosis isn't evil, or dangerous.  It is a tool, and like any tool, it has to be used with respect.  The hammer we build a house with can also crush someones skull.  And someone who's only used a hammer a few times is a lot more likely to make a mistake and break a thumb or poke a nail sideways than someone who's an old pro with it.

This falls into the category of RACK.  Risk Aware Consentual Kink.  If you are interested in recreational hypnosis, there is a LARGE community available for research online.  The risk with hypnosis is minimal, but it is there.  And as with any Kink/BDSM related interaction, get to know the people you are considering playing with BEFORE you play.  Find out about their qualifications.  I know that desire for 'instant gratification' is hard to resist, but wait until you get a reference or two, and find out if your interests (recreationally) coincide.....

 

Helium Loon, C.H.T, L.H., A.S.C.H.

 

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1 hour ago, JonC Weatherwax said:

Long time ago this discussion. Most, even the bits stated as accurate, are simply wrong.

Well then do explain, instead of necrobumping some goddamn ancient thread just to go

"lol no ur wrong"

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my experience probably wasn't the best. I met someone at one time that wanted me to use this "cranial lust" type of thing. it has trances, some forms of hypnotizing etc. maybe it would different with others. but I found that it became quickly annoying. the same basic things over and over again. first few days then few weeks. ive always thought too much of one thing doesn't end well. Variety keeps me going but maybe someone else would really enjoy that stuff more than me. 

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10 hours ago, latinatransgirl said:

my experience probably wasn't the best. I met someone at one time that wanted me to use this "cranial lust" type of thing. it has trances, some forms of hypnotizing etc. maybe it would different with others. but I found that it became quickly annoying. the same basic things over and over again. first few days then few weeks. ive always thought too much of one thing doesn't end well. Variety keeps me going but maybe someone else would really enjoy that stuff more than me. 

LOL never heard of that one, but if you have to resort to hypnosis for that maybe other more natural communication techniques need to be learnt.

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On 1/28/2020 at 2:57 PM, cheesecurd said:

Well then do explain, instead of necrobumping some goddamn ancient thread just to go

"lol no ur wrong"

Of course there are ethics in everything, but hypnosis is just the art of emotive communication, nothing more. Imagination is the key, it has very little to do with trance and absolutely everything to do with fascination and concentration. Many people in SL are already pretty much in a hypnotic state.

The length of time  suggestion lasts - well there are people who have lifetime phobias and PTSD directly from accepting a suggestion of experience, maybe an event or from a teacher, parent, sibling, significant person. 

I disagree with the risk being 'minimal' as it can be huge, believing that you can do no harm really is like walking down the street with a loaded and locked shotgun on an icy day.

Dangerous suggestions can be sideswiped, unless the suggestionist is adept enough to form the suggestion so that it appears to be what the hypnotee wants, or even believes they can't stop it happening. The good side of that is very few hypnotists understand that, and a tiny amount have that skill. :-)

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Posted (edited)

Adding to the excellent Hypnosis post by @Helium in 2013:

btw: 2013 is too long between posts for such an important and potentially life-improving field of personal change work and I encourage experienced hypnotists to add to the discussion/debate.

Some thoughts:

TRANCE or an episode of absorbed attention, as @Helium stated, is a naturally occurring state of consciousness.  These happen to us continually - maybe even continuously - all throughout our life.  Arguably what we consider “waking consciousness” is just one of a multitude of trance states (albeit probably the most common one).  Certainly when we allow ourselves to get caught up in the alternate reality of the story in a film or a book; when we daydream about lovers or adventures; construct logical arguments and hypotheses; play music or become absorbed listening to music and especially when we debate or argue with our own “inner dialogue” as we often do - we are in a trance state different to, and separate from normal consciousness.  Very often we continue to perform complex tasks while consciously unaware of what we are doing.  Those of us who drive a vehicle are familiar with the “how did I get here?” syndrome when, although we’ve been totally engaged within our thoughts and unaware of our physical surroundings, we continue to drive excellently along the correct route and arrive safely at our destination without the slightest recollection of how we managed it.

@Helium is also spot on when he/she says a hypnosis subject must be an active participant.  Hypnosis is not something a hypnotist does to you.  Hypnosis is a contract in which both parties have roles and activities to perform and the subject must have a very real reason for wishing to engage in the process.  Aside from recreational or entertainment purposes the main reason for wishing to “be hypnotised” is that trance is a proven way to “shortcut” the long and difficult personal change process required to alter personality “settings” chosen very early in life - long before we knew what we were doing or had enough experience to choose our settings wisely (see my post in https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/426928-who-are-you-we-want-to-know/page/8/ ).  Psychologists’ current “go-to” protocol for behaviour modification is CBT or Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, and whilst it is effective for those who finish the course, it takes a great deal of effort, application and self-discipline to see it through.  A large proportion of starters don’t finish.

Lastly to the matter of safety and particularly the issue of abreaction (the subject who “freaks out” while in trance).  There are at least two schools of thought among hypnotherapists.  The classical school sees hypnosis as simply an effective tool for the performance of psychoanalysis - the Freudian notion that to change the future one must review the past to find out what went wrong.  Clearly, making someone in trance vividly relive an unpleasant episode is a good way to have them freak out.  The newer school utilises hypnotic trance in conjunction with operant conditioning to generate fresh outcomes by associating behaviours the subject aspires to with intense pleasurable experience while in trance.  Having discussed the subject’s desired outcomes and with no need to delve into often painful past experience there is zero tension of the type required to create abreaction with this generative use of hypnosis.

To sum up.  A modern hypnotist is a guide skilled in assisting a subject to enter a trance state and then manipulate it to establish a positive pleasure framework that will support desired thoughts, feelings, emotions and behaviours in the subject’s future.  As these manifest in the subject’s ongoing life experience the operant nature of the conditioning naturally reinforces and strengthens the tendency to behave optimally and there is little need for continuing input by a second party.  In my experience though, a number of subjects do return requesting further trance work.  These tend to be those with submissive tendencies interested in exploring their newfound ability to experience pleasure in a dom/sub context.  Some have asked me to train their RL partner to take over the “controlling” function in the hypnotist/subject relationship.  This is harmless fun for the most part but I advise caution.  The primary essential condition for successful outcomes using hypnosis is TRUST and it may be extended to a third party only with some level of risk.  Phloc Shepherd

Edited by Phloc Shepherd
over generalisation corrected
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On 4/25/2013 at 8:15 AM, TariChar said:

Uhm.. this is supposed to work in sl?  Or just Roleplay?

I'm 90% certain it's just roleplay; just like the hypno videos you see on pornhub etc. 

 

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On 5/30/2020 at 5:33 AM, Han Held said:

I'm 90% certain it's just roleplay; just like the hypno videos you see on pornhub etc. 

 

Very few people are actually just text suggestive. Most require more than one form of trance induction such as text and visual. Some require visual and audio.  Some require all three in order to trance.

Most of the hypnosis in sl is just rp. But some of it is real. And can be used for abuse if the wrong person is trusted. 

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