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Unpredictable mesh import


AcidJuice
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Hello all,

 

I often have the following problem : my meshes do not import well to second life.

 

The point is that the result is not predictable : sometimes it works, sometimes not. Sometimes I try several imports (without modifying the collada file), and at the end it may work (but not allways) !

 

Here is some screen captures to show the problem :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lemonacidjuice/8670145285/in/photostream

 

I use blender 2.66 and depending on the mesh avastar export or collada native export (but the problem does not seem to be avastar dependent).

 

The problem happens on rigged and non rigged meshes (so this is probably not a weighting problem).

There is no "doubles" in the mesh.

Normals (vertices and faces) are verified and good (no inversion (backface culling display).

Rotations and scales are cleared (all rot to 0, all scale to 1).

...

 

I searched forums and really found few things about that... surprising because it occurs really often to me... :(

 

Any ideas or suggestions ?

 

Thanks by advance :)

 

Lemon

 

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I have seen this sort of problem showing up occasionally (once within a few weeks) and going away after a short time. Some people are reporting it may be caused by low bandwidth of your internet connection. But that might be a rumour.

Since the problem comes and goes even when you import the same dae file, i seriously doubt that the Collada exporters are the cause. However it still may be possible that the SL Importer has problems with the Collada files generated by Blender/Avastar so if that is the case, we will fix it as soon as we know what should be changed.

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Thanks Gaia,

 

I am quit sure this is not due to Avastar, and if it is the exporter, both native blender collada and avastar exporter have the same problem.

 

Concerning my connection, I am 15.26 download and 0.87Mbps upload... i think this is just average (?)

 

The problem comes and goes... maybe but concerning the example i added as a link in my first post, i tried many many times and never obtained a good result...

 

What is surprising to me, is that i haven't seen any forum talking about this problem ! Are my meshes so bad ?? ^^ Because it happens to me almost all the time... (and that's really disappointing !)

 

 

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You could publish one of your .blend files from which you know that it creates these issues. Then others could take a look and see if there is something in the model that could cause the problem.

Or others could just try to upload the .dae file to see if the same spikes occur on other computers as well...

If you look for a public blend file server: http://pasteall.org/blend will do it.

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Hi :)

I just did 10 uploads of your mesh to Aditi/Morris sandbox , 5 with SL  veiwer( LI 16  to 17)  and 5 with Firestorm, ( LI 16 to 19 ).

All 10 uploaded fine . Note i was using the same collada file (Blender 2.66) for the uploads with Operator Presets set to SL Static ............will go and try a couple after saving as different Collada files ...................

Uploaded another 5 times using seperate collada files each time and again they uploaded perfectly ( Morris looks a bit like a war cemetory now ..........)

 Just had another look at your mesh. What is that Weird looking Hair mesh object doing inside the head ? lol

Hair mesh.PNG

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Thanks Aquila,

 

But :( because it works for you !

 

Concerning the mesh hair, it is an hidden object linked to avastar (avastar hair that can be optionaly hidden)... and i checked : this was not included in my collada exports...

 

... it could have been better for me that you had the problem too... so still no idea about a solution... :(

 

oh... please Aquila, could you indicate your internet connection speed (Gaia indicated that could be the problem) ? Thanks

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Here is the result of two imports... one good and one bad :

Snapshot_001 - Copie.jpg

 

As i said... this is curious because i had a "good serie" of imports... and again this bad result with (maybe) one point from the face going to the floor...

 

Can that be depending on the sl server you are connected to ?

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just for clarification: the hair wig can be modified with Shape sliders (shape keys in Blender) exactly like it can be done in the SL viewer. So this "amorph bulk of faces in the middle of the head" is most probably the result of some extreme shape slider values.

You can get the same thing in the SL viewer as well. You will find this weird structure in the inside of your Avatar head when you wear a "bald cap" to hide the default hair in favor of your personal hair wig. Try in the SL viewer:

develop -> rendering -> wireframe

Then you see it in your head similar to:

scrunchedhair.png

So this is not a weird bug in Avastar, but the Avastar shape sliders are an exact copy of the SL avatar shape system :)

 

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You know what ??

I retried just now... and all works well ?!!!! (same collada files)...

Why why ?? pff it could be nothing but this is really often for me !

Welcome to the mysterious world of the betagrid ; )

Unpredictable things can happen, since after all it is a 'beta'-grid and they run tests and not announced changes on it at times, and there are often instabilities . And we all ran into weird and not explainable issues already which would just vanish after a while.

But apart from that , and to follow on Aquila's thought that it could be your connection (which definitely is one of the possible reasons);
what you could do is check the bandwidth settings in your viewer. If the estimated bandwidth (or the one you possibly set) is too high you might encounter lots of packetloss. It should be around the half of the 'download' speed your internet connection has. (higher values can sometimes decrease lag that is based on connection speed, but can also lead to unwanted results such as packet loss)

Depending on your viewer its in the Preferences either under Advanced, or Network, or similar.

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Codewarrior Congrejo wrote:

what you could do is check the bandwidth settings in your viewer. If the estimated bandwidth (or the one you possibly set) is too high you might encounter lots of packetloss. It should be around the half of the 'download' speed your internet connection has. (higher values can sometimes decrease lag that is based on connection speed, but can also lead to unwanted results such as packet loss)

I wonder if the bandwidth setting are also meant for uploading. I also have the impression that the uploaded data is compressed. And wouldn't loosing a packet of a compressed data make much more damage than shifting a few vertices to unexpected places ?

And what about the errors shown in the previewer ? I can not believe that this is first sent to the SL servers, then sent back for preview. But then ... how can bandwidth settings influence the preview ?

Questions over questions :(

You know what just hits me ? A while ago my computer did crazy things especially when i started the Second Life Viewer or other programs which need a lot of memory.  And after a few weeks of not understanding at all what is going on here, it turned out that there was a broken memory block in my computer...

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Gaia Clary wrote:

And after a few weeks of not understanding at all what is going on here, it turned out that there was a broken memory block in my computer...


Or fried capacitors, a powersupply, a graphics card. I've had those on top of a broken memory socket... isn't SL a blast? :)

 

@OP

No matter what causes the issue, the bigger the DAE file, the more likely it is something gets borked. Going by the looks of your cat, which btw looks really nice, the polycount is extremely high. Lowering it should help.

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Thanks all for your replies !

 

@Codewarrior : i cannot connect to sl right now, but i'll check the bandwidth and tell you what it is and if changes affect something as soon as possible.

 

@Gaia : my memory (12GB) is checked and good (i meant, not my memory in fact but my computer's one ^^) 

I agree with your comment "how the bandwidth may affect the preview"...

To me, this kind of files can only be entirely read or not (as they are xml format)... so (at the base) nothing can be lost in the way... (??)

I suspect this is some kind of optimization done server side... but how to verify that ?

 

@Kwakkelde

The cat is about 16k vertices (i did it by retopo another model found on the net which model is more than 100k vertices).

To have a comparison : avatars are about 4k vertices (approximatly) and human models such as DAZ are currently about 20k (and yes, this is not "lowpoly" models...)

I think i will not reduce the cat but cut it in several parts (poor poor cat ^^) so that each part will have a small amount of vertices. It will take me some time to do it properly but i'll send you back the results when done.

 

Thanks again all for your replies... i'll tell you soon the results of my differents tests

 

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If the cat is about 16k vertices I hope you can find the real reason for the glitches. 16k is a lot, by gaming standards, but for SL it sounds very reasonable to me actually. Not that it is or should be a benchmark of any kind, but many SL items are in the 100s of 1000s of triangles. The 4k verts for an avatar is without eyes, hair and (mesh/sculpt/prim) clothing, so that's not a number to hold onto either. I agree chopping up a cat just doesn't sound right.

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So...

 

My sl bandwidth is 500kbps

And my internet connection :

- ping : 31ms

- download : 16.24 Mbps

- upload : 0.87 Mbps

 

If i follow Codewarrior advice, i may set the bandwidth up to 800kps...

 

Then, maybe this is not a good explaination for the problem ? What do you think ?

 

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Perhaps a begining of explanation ?

 

The cat mesh is now in blender :

- Vertices : 16 757

- Tris : 33 184

 

Here in this import :

- Vertices : 18 468

- Tris : 33 088

 

Here is the screen capture :

bad import 07.png

 

So... there is probably some kind of algorithm behind, and including for "load from file" setup... maybe all this is documented somewhere, but i was not able to find this documentation.

And, ok, this does not explain totally the "unpredictable" aspect of all this...

 

(when i am lucky enough to have a correct upload i will note tris and vertices amounts to check if there is some kind of relation with them)

 

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Since there is this discrepancy in face count, now i am very interested to see your original blend file to understand where and why the triangles get lost.

have you tried what happens with the polygon count when you triangulate in Blender before you export ?

cheers,

Gaia

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