Please IP block of copybotters

[OceanIsGrey]

I was looking at the marketplace to do my shopping today, and this particular hair shop which is consistently priced no higher than 21 L is clearly a freud. This person ripped off from the well known shops such as Catwa, Wasabi pill, etc, and I'm unable to flag this person. Linden lab must provide the MP some security here. Block the IP addresses of the copybotters who presumpuously present their ripped-off products on sales !!! They never really pay for premium or buy lands for long term business so what is the reason to keep them around? I don't understand. 

Is LL promoting infringement now? 

[Ariel Vuissent]

LL states pretty clearly that the owner of the copybotted items may file a DMCA, and the items will be taken down if they're found to be in violation of IP laws. However, as the law stands in the US right now, it is the sole responsibility of the Intellectual Property holder to enforce their rights. It's not just LL; that's the law.

IP bans are a pretty major step for LL, and not one they're going to take unless they have to. Even if they DO ban an IP address, it's actually not that difficult to get around.

Make note of the name of the copybotter, copy the exact marketplace address of the store, and write a notecard or IM to the business owners whose rights you know have been violated. Send that notecard to those creators, so that they are aware and can file a DMCA against the copybotter.

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Linden Lab is not promoting intellectual property rights as you suggest.  Infringement of copyright and intellectual property in not a simple problem that "just block the IP addresses for those thieves" is the solution.  There are laws that must be observed and obeyed and LL has to work within those very concrete laws in the United States.  Sure they could willy nilly put blocks on IP addresses of suspected intellectual property rights infringers......and, in the process, block untold numbers of innocent users who did absolutely nothing wrong.  Those innocents only transgression is that they happen to live in a an area where the thief lives and have the same ISP (the IP address that LL would block is not limited to a single Internet user but to a block of (up to) thousands of other Internet users).  How would you feel if LL IP blocked your IP address because some thief that lives 10 miles from you was copybotting?  Pretty PO'd I would think.  It just isn't that simple.

There are ways to limit (and, if used properly, almost eliminate) intellectual property rights infringements.........but the used properly part is a pipe dream, I'm afraid..  It's called the DMCA.  It's a law in the United States that gives the intellectual property creators a way to protect their rights against theft.  But the law requires that only the person (or entity) that owns the property rights can file the complaint.  So, until the rightful rights owners notify LL with a properly filed DMCA notification they can do nothing.  Your job is to avoid the copybotted content and to notify the rightful owner of the susspedted copies.  If they choose to file the DMCA then great..........if not then shame on them and just move on.

[Pamela Galli]

This place was reported several weeks ago. The creators were notified. The store disappeared for a few days then returned. I will leave it to everyone to draw his own conclusions about why this store is still selling stolen merchandise to those who are only too happy to get a bargain and don't really care if the product is legit or not.

[WADE1 Jya]

LL invented & released the original copybot :catsad:

LL make far too much easy money off copyright violations to stop.

Until more aggressive US laws arrive to force a change of LL's business model... LL will continue to do nothing effective against thievery :catsad:

[Min Barzane]

And what you think IP bann or ewen MAC bann would acomplish? Apsolutly nothing becouse both are easy to spoof/change and make new account !

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Only the people that actually own the IP rights to something can do anything about it. Flagging or AR's complaining about illegal content are ignored.  Legally a DMCA notice has to be filed by the owner of the IP rights before LL can act. This is how it should be,  LL has no way of knowing if the person selling the item has a legal license to do so, and some of them do.  They also don't have the staff that would be needed to investigate everything imported into SL to be sure it's legal.

Unless you own the IP rights to something you see that is illegal and can file a DMCA, the only thing you can do and should do  is to contact the person who owns the rights and let them know.  If the SL seller has no license to sell it and they wish to take action they will.  If they don't take action, then either it is legally being sold or the owner doesn't care.  In either case it isn't your call or anyone else's,  Only the IP rights owner can decide.

[Pamela Galli]

Or in this case, likely the DMCAs were filed and countered, and the copybotter goes on his way.

[OceanIsGrey]

Yes. I understand why and how banning IP addresses are aimless. I just hate to see those ignorant copybotters who get away with their dirty jobs. 

I tried to report this person and also flag all his/her items on the MP, but the flagging is currently disabled for some reason ---not to mention 'Dont do it' statement in the box above --- and I'm unable to draw attention to this shop other than pulling DMCA on this person, but I do not own any of the products in that shop so I don't have the right to file a report. 

I just wish LL would disable the reported copybotters' transaction or buy/sell previliage until they unlock the rights with the proof so fewer people would rip off other peoples' hardwork so easily. Just something to stop them in the first place. I've been buying hell loads of goods on the MP and I'm very loyal to those awesome designers. Anybody could just copybot those without paying a dime, but I'd rather support those designers to keep up the good work by paying for what I get. I wish LL cared more about qualities than quantities. 

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

"...

I just wish LL would disable the reported copybotters' transaction or buy/sell previliage until they unlock the rights with the proof so fewer people would rip off other peoples' hardwork so easily..."

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You're convicting someone (or a group of people) without a single shred of evidence.  You suspect the content is being ripped off......you have no proof beyond your gut feeling or suspicions.  Digital content theft is a real life crime that is only resolved by a court of law deciding if, in fact, the crime occurred.  There are only two parties who know for sure if the content is stolen......that is the thief and the legal owner of the stolen content.  The thief is not likely to admit to stealing the content so the owner of the content is the only one left who can do anything about it.  The owner has a US law that they must use in order to get the ball rolling in the court system.......if they choose not to use the legal papers (a DMCA) then the nothing will be done to the thief.  If they file the DMCA then LL takes the content down (removes it from the servers) until some sort of resolution as been made by the DMCA law.  One of the provisions of the law allows the accused to counter the DMCA take down notice which will require LL to put the content back up (if you think about that provision you'll see it's a good provision to protect the content creator from dishonest or malicious people making false claims).

You're wanting LL to take action against people who you think (but do not know) are stealing content.  That absolutely should never happen......not in real life and not in Second Life either.  You don't know and are in no position to know so all you can do is notify the content creator that you think someone is stealing their creations and let them take action........they are the only ones who can take action.  Meanwhile you might want to avoid the suspected stolen content and maybe inform your friends of the suspected content (but careful about stating "facts" that you have no way of knowing are truly facts).  If something's done about the content then you can take comfort knowing you helped the legal owner of the content.......if not then assume it's not stolen, or the seller (who you suspect is the thief) actually does have the rights to sell the content, or your suspicions are inaccurate, or the legal owner doesn't care.  You've done what you can now it time to get over it and move on.

[Czari Zenovka]

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OceanIsGrey wrote:

I was looking at the marketplace to do my shopping today, and this particular hair shop which is consistently priced no higher than 21 L is clearly a

freud.

 

---

(Bolding mine)

Was that a Fredian slip?  

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

ETA:  I've had the flu or something for the past few days so I'm a bit loopy at the moment.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

"...

I'm a bit loopy at the moment."

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*Bolding is mine.    At the moment? :smileysurprised:

Also.........sorry I couldn't resist either.  :heart:

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

"...

I'm a bit loopy

at the moment

."

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*Bolding is mine.    At the moment? :smileysurprised:

Also.........sorry I couldn't resist either.  :heart:

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[Ciaran Laval]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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OceanIsGrey wrote:

I was looking at the marketplace to do my shopping today, and this particular hair shop which is consistently priced no higher than 21 L is clearly a

freud.

 

---

(Bolding mine)

Was that a Fredian slip?

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

ETA:  I've had the flu or something for the past few days so I'm a bit loopy at the moment.

---

Or a Freudian slip

[Ciaran Laval]

Linden Lab don't know about an infringement until it has been reported and without the content creator reporting it, that's difficult for them.

I have seen examples where I feel Linden Lab could take action without contact from a content creator, that's usually when they aren't even selling copybotted items, they're not really selling anything, in those circumstances LL should be able to step in.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Ciaran Laval wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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OceanIsGrey wrote:

I was looking at the marketplace to do my shopping today, and this particular hair shop which is consistently priced no higher than 21 L is clearly a

freud.

 

---

(Bolding mine)

Was that a Fredian slip?

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

ETA:  I've had the flu or something for the past few days so I'm a bit loopy at the moment.

---

Or a Freudian slip

---

ARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!  I could have sworn I typed it correctly. 

(Toldya I was loopy today. :matte-motes-nerdy:)

[OceanIsGrey]

In this case, I have the evidence. I just don't reveal the person's name here since it's against TOS. The person is right there on the MP. I see this person everyday. This person even created the fake logo for the ripped-off contents. 

I'm asking questions and suggesting at the same time as a resident playing in SL. I'm also a customer and a good friend with some of the builders. I'm pissed off for the fact that copybot is accessable. I know all about DMCA, but I can't take an action for the copybotting because I'm not one of the builders. I informed the builders about this issue, and that's about it. 

[OceanIsGrey]

Yeah I agree with you.  Some customers wouldn't even care whether it's ripped off or not. 

[OceanIsGrey]

Sorry about the typo. I'm not the best speller in the world. 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

So you know all about DMCA.  You know that you cannot file the take down notice.......even though you say you have "evidence".  You've informed the creators.  And, I assume, that you avoid purchasing or otherwise obtaining the suspected stolen content.  You're "evidence" is useless until you are asked to present it in the appropriate venue (in this case, since it's a real life crime, would be a court of law).........until that time your "evidence" is only important to you.  Evidence does not prove a crime has been committed....any "evidence" can be either true or false (and I'm accusing you of manufacturing evidence but it is a fact that evidence can be false.........that's the whole purpose of a trial to find out what the facts are using evidence to make that determination). 

I'm not sure what you want.  I believe you want LL to be proactive and make a judgment based on your "evidence" (again, I'm not singling you out, but you are making this plea to LL to block copybotters without the benefit putting a defense up to dispute the judgment).  Yeah, LL could do as you ask and block IP addresses for every suspected copybotter.  They don't.......instead they following the DMCA law provided by US law.  That's what every other provider that allows users to offer digital creations to others does.  If LL were to simply take down content that is suspicious every time someone reports it then there would be next to no user created content in SL.  Creators would hesitate to upload their content due to the fact that if someone (anyone) tells LL it's stolen or copied then it's gone.....and SL would not exist as a user created virtual world that it is today.  LL would destroy itself and Second Life if they were to do what you are asking them to do.  There is no easy answer to digital content theft.......if a graphics card can render it, it can be copied (that's just a fact of life with digital content).

You've done all you can do.  LL can do no more than what they are doing without destroying the entire platform that makes up SL.  Yeah the users can do more by avoiding stolen content as much as possible........and most actually do if they are aware of the content being stolen (it's that small percentage of people who don't care and a, still small but larger, group of users who simply not aware of the content being stolen.  Tell your friends (being careful to not accuse anyone falsely.....which is hard to do in reality).  Shun the thieves......shame them even if you can and stay within the ToS.  But asking LL to intervene on your say so is not the answer...........doing so would be worse than what they are doing now (a whole lot worse....for everyone).

[OceanIsGrey]

Here is the thing. I'm a shopaholic in SL. I buy a lot of products. I mean A LOT. I look through the Marketplace on daily basis, especially in hair section because I'm a big hair shopper. 

The contents this person copybotted are without a doubt the well known styles from those shops I shop at. The same styles, same hairbases, same everything, except they're all in black. The photos are the proof. You don't have to see the actual contents to prove they are fake. Even you'll know they are from the other shops from the photos. You can't assume customers are less intellectual about these things. Customers are builders, too. 

I wish I could reveal this person's name here but he/she is right there in the male hair section on the MP. You can look this person up and judge for yourself. They are exactly the same products from the other shops. If that's not the clearcut evidence I don't know what is. Also I don't think LL would want to get involved in the US Law over some virtual goods. I'm just questioning in the matters of their handling of the violations in SL. I just got irritated by the fact that I could buy something that isn't from the honest sellers If i don't keep my eyes open for stuff like this.... Don't want to lose my money by those thieves on the MP as the MP itself is losing my credibility as well. Anyhow thank you for your honest responses.

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

"...

You don't have to see the actual contents to prove they are fake.

..."

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I'm going to say this and then I'm going to abandon this thread.  You DO have to see the content to prove it's fake or copied.  Even then, with all the digital forensic technology, there is a large portion of the data that will remain not proven one way or the other.  I understand your frustration.......believe or not, I'm with you on the thieves and copybotting.  But you are asking LL to block someone (or a group of someones) because the content appears to be copied or stolen.  LL can absolutely do that if they choose to.  And that might catch a few copybotters.  But it also will "catch" legitimate, original content creators too.....that is something no one wants to happen in SL.  That will crush the whole "user created content" concept that SL is built upon.  The existing DMCA take down notice is the only way for the content creators to fight copybotting..........and the only way you can help is to avoid suspected copied content and notify the legal owners of the content.  Beyond that it's totally out of your control.  It's life on the Internet.

[OceanIsGrey]

Could you stop quoting one sentence and make it like I'm trying to be blunt about the whole matter here? I'm talking about THIS PERSON as an example. I'm giving you a case about this particular situation. This is a very definite case where you don't have to buy every content of this person's shop to see they are fake. THEY ARE FAKE BECAUSE THIS PERSON IS BOLD ENOUGH TO USE EXACTLY THE SAME STYLES AND TAKE SHOTS OF THE PRODUCTS. 

You'll see this person's product lays right next to the original creator's work. And I assume this person does this knowing people won't take an immediate action until he/she processes their money to paypal or whatever they do with the wrongfully earned lindens. And like i said, I have informed the original creators about this because this person is taking the higher rank each day because of the crazy bargain which is only 21 L.

Some honest customers bought the styles and realized they are ripped off. They left the reviews not to buy from this person, but obviously people don't care when the rank is going up. So It's up to those original creators to pull the big gun on this person, but as a customer myself it's just too apparent to look away from those thieves trying to ruin business around. I'm a big fan customer. I love SL and that's why I hate to see people being so lenient about infringement. I want to support those good designers so they can continuously provide me the new ideas and goods that I'd love in order to enjoy SL the fullest. 

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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OceanIsGrey wrote:

Sorry about the typo. I'm not the best speller in the world. 

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I'm obviously not either.  :matte-motes-bashful:

[Pamela Galli]

This is from the listing guidelines (bolding mine):

 

"If we receive a complaint from a brand or intellectual property owner, or if we believe in good faith that your listing violates these Branding Guidelines or intellectual property law, we reserve the right to remove your listing."

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/listing_guidelines

 

LL can and has, at least in the past, done plenty of takedowns on its own. It combed Xstreet when it bought it, and threw out a lot of branded stuff.

A company can be held responsible for not doing a take down on its own under certain conditions:

 

'Red Flags

The second way that an OSP can be put on notice that its system contains infringing material, for purposes of section 512©, is referred to the "red flag" test.[12]The "red flag" test stems from the language in the statute that requires that an OSP not be “aware of facts or circumstances from which infringing activity is apparent.”[18]

The "red flag" test contains both a subjective and an objective element. Objectively, the OSP must have knowledge that the material resides on its system. Subjectively, the "infringing activity would have been apparent to a reasonable person operating under the same or similar circumstances."[12]"