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Malereh

I'm Considering Opening A Sex Club

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Hello everyone, my name is Malereh and I have a few questions about possibly starting a club here on Second Life.

As the title reads, I'm thinking of opening my own sex club, much in the same vein as Bukkake Bliss and Dirty Dive, in which visitors can come in and find random partners to have fun with. When I first started here on Second Life, I have considered possibly doing this as a business product of sorts as I though doing so would possibly help me to make money in RL. Once I found out more that this is not the case, the idea of making my own sex club moved to the back of my mind until just today, there the idea once again popped into my head due to various circumstances.

However, I have several questions on how to go about doing this. I know that a club like Bukkake Bliss covers an entire sim yet visitors only hang out in a small fraction of that sim while Dirty Dive and other clubs take up only a small fraction of a sim located on Zindra. What I would like to ask is how would one go about buying land on Zindra or if buying a whole sim like BB has a better option?

My second question is how could I advertise my club to gain the maximum amount of visitors possible? I saw ads of Dirty Dive several times during the start up and using search. I'd just like to ask if advertising like that would cost me anything or if I would need any special perks in order to get my club advertised. Also, I would like to know what the benefits and drawbacks would be to owning a club like this. How difficult would business be to make, what are the challenges etc.

Thirdly, I would just like to get any suggestions or ideas that you would like me to consider if I ever do decide to open a club.

Thanks for reading my post. I would greatly appreciate any feedback on this.

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Both of those clubs are on their own regions at this point. DD outgrew its mainland digs, and was attracting a fair amount of trollery of the kind that's much harder to control on the mainland.

Even if they congregate in little spots, lots of decked out avatars will sap a whole sim's worth of resources. That leaves a lot of mostly unused space on the region, but it wouldn't be good for much else.  Putting busy clubs on their own regions makes for fewer lag problems at the clubs, and no irate neighbors to complain about a full region they can't TP into, or lag.

Mainland could still be a good choice to start with. A smaller parcel will save you a lot of money. If the club doesn't catch on, it hurts less to walk away. If it succeeds, you can always move later.

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Advertising will cost you fairly significantly, and won't necessarily improve your traffic. The issue is that a small group of adult venues are very profitable, because they attract a large and dependable crowd, or provide a LCD (lowest common denominator) service. Sex locations are typically centralised, and the patrons are generally seeking to find only the busiest sim. Small and medium set-ups therefore attract only a passable amount of traffic. SL users seeking these types of sims only rarely look for new places, mostly they have a small handful of regular 'haunts' that they know are likely to return their time investment, hanging around waiting for someone. Advertising in recent months has turned somewhat crazy, with the keywords skewing towards only the highest charged, sexually explicit terms. 

Adult venues don't make much money (as you seem to have realised); they typically work alongside ranges of adult toys, or have large malls/affiliate vendors. BB exists to support a brand of genitals and RP tools, as far as I recall.

There are not too many challenges; a common tenet of building in SL is 'build it and they will come' (though this is less relevant today, with fewer 'roaming' residents). There can be a small issue with who 'they' are, however; the culture and style of the place is almost always determined by its visitors, and not its prims. Rules are typically very few, aside from the normal (don't bug people, no means no, no child avs). Drama and other issues are common, but typically most of it will be hidden from view (especially if you readily identify yourself as the owner). Most can be avoided, rather than resorting to bans. It is worth advising that it's very easy for places such as this to get a bad reputation, and for this reputation to spread; if people find there is no return on their time investment, they won't come back. Depending on the market (kinks) you cater for, you may find that only a few people hang around. As I say, most people visiting places such as this know what they're looking for, and if they don't they just go for LCD. There isn't much that can be done about this.

Sex sims are typically badly built, in a simple (almost generic) style that simply provides the 'backdrop' to the main attraction - other avatars. Often they are stylised using LCD kinks or fetishes (castles, dungeons, strip clubs, hospitals, etc). They are also commonly home-grown, built and managed by one person, and moderated by a small group of staff.

I would personally go for buying a whole sim (or at least a Homestead), as it will give you Estate Manager rights. There is no way to adequately secure a location from someone who wants to harass your visitors without it. Harassment will occur, and while it is your choice to get involved or not, the way you deal with harassment will shape the culture of your sim. Either way, learn the security features that are available to you.

If you'd like any further help, I don't mind. I've years of experience in building, maintaining/moderating and even operating (but most of all, visiting :P) locations such as this.

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Having a club is an expensive hobby and you shouldn't expect any kind of income from it or at least don't build your club up on the hope to cover tier and extra costs by donations.

Also try to be different than the already existing clubs to draw people to your club who aren't already regular visitors of the other places.

The rest is up to you, just make sure you have fun.

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I would build the club for fun not expecting anything back. In this economy and thing can happen. Also A good idea is maybe bake a few rooms and rent them by the half hour a small fee. Then have all kinds of naughty things in there. Have free lance hookers as well and charge them 15 -20 percent. That way theres no presure of keeping staff 

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Thanks for the clarification. I knew that DD was at the mainland at one point but I had forgotten that they had moved. I do agree though,even though I still think that there are still trolls going there and that the owners and managers themselves are trolls.

I do know about how people with very really decked out avatars could ruin a sims resources. It's something that I wish I could keep under control if I were to start my own club. I would actually prefer people with more simpler avatar come visit though my goal is to have many different types of people to come in and not really cater to a niche audience.

As much as I wish that i could do a lot with my club, I already understand that I won't need so much space to be successful. I've seen it first had in practically every other club that I've visited, so I'm well aware that just having enough room and space will do just fine.

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I cannot emphasis enough that you should be prepared to pay all the expenses out of your own pocket every month for a while.  You can not rely on donations, rents etc to provide you any income.  IF you draw a crowd and IF that crowd spends money and IF that becomes consistent, then you can figure it into your budget.  But that is a lot of IF's.  The truth is that all clubs, no matter what kind, are money pits for a long time..  Only after a lot of hard work and luck can you even hope to break even,.  Most clubs never reach that point.  I speak from experience  even though the two clubs I owned eventually made a profit.  However it took months of  a LOT of hard full time 7 days a week work from me to keep them in the top five of their type before that happened and you can't slack off after it does if you are lucky enough to make even a small profit, and that was before the economy tanked.

Secondly if you don't have your own full sim you can't expect to have large crowds without trouble.  If you have a quarter sim and eventually draw more than 20 people at a time, your neighbors will complain about lag and you hogging all the sim resources.  Its fine to start out on a lot, but be prepared to get your own full sim as soon as you get a consistent crowd at times of more than 20.  It will need to be a full sim too because a homestead was not designed to hold a crowd of avatars all decked out.  They are intended for low-density rentals, quiet residential, or light commercial use and a club is not light commercial.  Twenty is the maximum amount of people you can have on a homestead and at that level be prepare for a lot of lag.  If you have excessive lag,  people will leave and not come back.  If you have a problem and need LL support, they may not support problems that result from you having a club there.

I don't mean to discourage you just let you know the facts.  And the facts are a successful club requires full time work from you and a lot of money.  You can't rely on managers because most people look at SL jobs as just part of a game and don't have the same work ethic or drive to really care about your club.  Even if you manage to find the best, they eventually leave

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Hmmm haven't been to any sex clubs in YEARS but from what I recall, people go there trying to look their best, to well, hook up. And depending on the brand of naughty bits, the scripts in the things themselves and in the HUDs that control them can be quite alot. There's always been some debate about whether very high ARC lags places or not. On one occasion, I was at a place and everyone was experiencing excessive lag. There was a woman there with an ARC of over 40,000. She left, the lag left too.

If you can afford a full sim, I'd go with that, and just because a full sim allows 70 avatars at a time, doesn't mean YOU have to. At well attended weekly events, it's rare to see more than 40 people at the maximum. If you were to set the limit to 40, and use efficient scripts and avoid big textures, and somehow politely encourage people to take off their naught bits and the accompanying HUDS when they're fully clothed, that could make it a more pleasant experience I'm thinking.

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Well it's kind of disappointing to hear that advertising may not work as well as it's suppose to, although when I talk about advertising, I mean having an ad that appears on the screen when you open the search tab. I already feel that having ads never work when you place them on billboards on other peoples sims as I wouldn't take that most people would check them out anyway. I've always believed that the best form of advertising is word of mouth; meaning that you hear about a certain movie, show or place that a friend of yours has been to. I don't take that it's much different on Second Life.

I guess the biggest challenge when it comes to all this is to have the money ready to invest in a project like this as well as getting people to come to your door. To men, if I don't have people coming to the club, then all the money and time I invested in it will go to waste. Hopefully, I would be able to find some people willing to place their ads at my club, although personally, I also feel that too many ads might kill the place. I know one sex club (I forget the name) that was so filled with ads that the "hooking up" aspect of the place just came second fiddle to actually trying to sell you stuff. That, and because the club itself wasn't built very well.

As far as reputation goes, I would assume that all successful sex clubs on SL right now would have a bad reputation just for being what they are. So I perfectly understand how there can be people turned off to these places because of the morals they have inside. I would assume however that most people here on Second Life sign up because of the adult aspect of the world, or at least take part in it if they are willing. Hopefully, the bad won't offset the good in this case.

It's funny how you brought up how sex clubs are badly built. I've been trying to address this by taking classes at Builder's Brewery for the past few days. Unfortunately, I wasn't necessarily taught anything useful that I couldn't figure out by looking for tutorials on Youtube and even getting started trying to do sculpted prims has been a nightmare for me. Perhaps it's because I downloaded the wrong version of Blender, but my programs don't seem to have the same options that are used in the tutorials I've seen.

I would love to buy a whole sim for my club, but I'm thinking a little realistic here. I don't expect visitors to travel all over the sim nor do I feel like I need the whole thing because of that fact. I'm starting off small here but still shooting for the top as that's always been my philosophy. I wouldn't want to be some kind of indy band that only performs in garages and pubs and doesn't strive to reach for the top because they don't believe they could make it.

I would greatly appreciate any type of help that you could give me, especially if you could teach me how to use Blender. :matte-motes-big-grin: I definitely welcome your experience.

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Yeah, I'm already aware that I'll be losing money off of this, which is pretty sad. I'm prepared though to take the financial risk. It's also pretty sad how there could be thousands of visitors to a sex sim and not one of them is willing to donate to keep their favorite sim alive.

As far as being different goes, well one thing I don't want to have is an ugly, nasty, disgusting looking club that makes people want to vomit. I never understood why the creators would make a club like that. I have my fair share of ideas on how to be different, though I know it's just a matter of executing them.

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Well honestly, I wouldn't want  to make any rooms that I make to have any fees nor would I want to have ads for hookers all over the place. I feel like these would possibly kill potential attendence numbers. That's my real goal; to have as many people coming in as possible.

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If you really want to try it, here are my suggestions, based on personal taste and experiance in the club scene:

- Aim for a certain kind of style, like a themed club. This will draw a line between your club and the ones that randomly put stuff in a simple building and color everything with cheap textures. It will make your club more recognizeable.

- Give your guests a good landing point, where they can rezz and have enough space to wait untill everything is rezzed for them. It will also help shy people to take a first look into the club before they walk in completely.

- As you said, you don't want to have ads for hookers and such. I agree and say you don't need them. If you want escorts in your club, the best way would be to allow freelancers but with a small limitation. Create a group with a small entry fee (50-100L) and allow those in this group to offer their service in your club. The fee will keep out newbies and scammers and the group gives you an easy overview on who is offering their services at your place. If there will be any trouble, you can easily eject that person from the group. Inform your guests that only people with this group tag are allowed and trusted to offer escort servies.

- See if you can find voluntiers or recrut 2-3 people who are around the club and help arriving newbies and guests with basic problems. At many other places newbies get ignored easily and are often too shy to ask for help. If they make a good first experiance, they will come back later. Also it would be good to have someone availabe who can deal with potentional griefers and other people who misbehave.

 

That are just some ideas that came to my mind when thinking of clubs. Oh and one thing that could really make a difference: Don't be too strict about avatarlooks. Be open to fantasy outfits and furries as well, they are nice and normal people and you would be suprised how many have no problem at all with them around.

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Well, I was bored today and came to this section of the forums to read what's here, and noticed this thread.

I guess to my friends it's no secret I may visit clubs like this from time to time, and while there seem to be a lot of experienced voices replying to this thread, I think their experience tends to be on the running side of things (although I don't deny they also want to play lol), and also a lot of female input, but maybe I can give a few nuggets of information from the client side, from a male, about why I go to these places and what I am looking for.

Firstly, it has to be a club with a lot of people coming to it, so I can find someone relatively quickly, the time investment factor, that someone mentioned earlier. The better looking the girls, the more likely I will be to stay and look at their profiles and consider contacting them. It also means that it may be more likely someone will notice me and call me.

Secondly, do not allow escorts to take over the place! In my experience, they usually look much worse than 'regular' girls, and at the early stage I cannot care less about the quality of their emoting, etc, I want a great time, but the visual side is very important too. I also have no intention of paying for any services, because (not to be too modest lol) I know I can find what I am looking for for free, and paying makes it all false anyway.

Thirdly, I would like to play on good equipment, if we decide to stay at the club. Good animations are important, but how the place looks is much less important, I am not going to be looking at the walls. Of course, the surroundings play a big role in possible RP, but that's not so important to me personally.

Fourthly, and perhaps most importantly, I will come back to a place if I simply find someone to play with that I have a great time with. Crudely put, if I get a good **bleep**, I am coming back :P

Fifthly, I guess it's important to somehow find out about a good place, so some form of advertising might be needed, although the best kind is 'a friend told me this place rocks and she wants to show me'.

From all these points, the furniture is the easiest for an owner to control and provide, but providing a quality place to play would be the basis to start from.

To conclude, I guess it's time for me to present the greatest idea in all of the adult world, that might actually help to fill that club and keep people coming back for more... lol

Regarding my 4th point, why not spend all that advertising money on assembling and hiring a good looking and emoting-talented group of guys and gals, and set them loose in the club from time to time, giving the visitors a good time for free, without them knowing they are escorts? It may be lying, but is anybody going to turn down a great **bleep** from an attractive partner? It may help to kick start the place in the early times and keep people coming back for more.

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Thats not true that escorts look worse than regular girls. If we speak about the successful ones, their look brings them clients and thats why every smart escort will invest in her apperance.

Those who look horrible are always the newbies or the slow learners....but that attidude is not tied to being escort or not :cathappy:

But I agree with most of the rest you wrote Robert.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Thats not true that escorts look worse than regular girls. If we speak about the successful ones, their look brings them clients and thats why every smart escort will invest in her apperance.

Those who look horrible are always the newbies or the slow learners....but that attidude is not tied to being escort or not :cathappy:

But I agree with most of the rest you wrote Robert.

Agreed! Couldnt she also put a clause saying to free lance must be of a good or decent quality?

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Yes, I apologize for generalizing about escorts' looks, I don't visit the escort clubs where these people are chosen based on an interview and other criteria, so I wouldnt really know. I do visit a place that allows freelances, and yes, these girls tend to look god-awful!

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RobertEroicaDupea wrote:

Yes, I apologize for generalizing about escorts' looks, I don't visit the escort clubs where these people are chosen based on an interview and other criteria, so I wouldnt really know. I do visit a place that allows freelances, and yes, these girls tend to look god-awful!

I'm familiar with two places which allow freelancers. One is small, the other as huge as possible. Some girls there look normal, others more like what you get after a lot of surgery...and yes, there is a group who seem to not care at all about their apperance.

Those hang usually out at the bigger place and I guess there think being an escort is ideal for making easy money without doing anything....but on the other hand they doesn't seem to be too sucessful...

But do you know which group is always the one with the overall worst look? Male avatars at freelance and free-sex places! :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

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Money not to mention time lost. I have my own club trying to get it off the ground. Fortunantly I have some loyals from a BDSM Jazz club I was General Manager for before it closed, including the former owner of that club. It helps to have an extensive friends list. But, be prepared to spend alot of events alone in your club. Start a group for the club and get your friends in it. And like someone said be prepared to spend lot of your own money. Make sure you can aford to support the club financialy on your own without outside help. I wish you luck in your new venture. If you contact me in world I will be happy to pay a vissit when I can.

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Malereh wrote:

...As far as being different goes, well one thing I don't want to have is an ugly, nasty, disgusting looking club that makes people want to vomit. I never understood why the creators would make a club like that. I have my fair share of ideas on how to be different, though I know it's just a matter of executing them.

I am SO glad to hear you say this!  I don't understand why there are so many sleazy sex dives out there...filthy, graffiti on the walls, body fluids in puddles on the floor, and flea infested mattresses.  It's just as easy to build a beautiful place, one with style and class.  Visit some of the lesbian places for ideas...they tend to be better looking than the places called things like "Biker Boinking" or "CumDumpsterDen".  And oddly, BDSM clubs...which can have the roughest, dirtiest sex...are often extremely classy.

I think a key is to have "zones".  Out front, a place simply to meet, dance, socialize and get to know someone.  Then a place with cuddle/kiss animations, for more intimate moments.  And then an area for the Serious Business.  A mix of public and (ostensibly) private rooms is nice, too.  Some places even have skyboxes (free or short term rental).

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Skyboxes are good. Some have pretty wild animation for their sex beds. I know at G Spot they get used alot. Not sure about other clubs. Sex sells even in SL. Put a few sexy dancers on poles to strip and talk sex you may get alot of people. 

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