SECOND LIFE IS DYING...

[Solar Legion]

Going by your original post in the other thread @Tari Landar your first foray into SL predates my first log in by quite some time. I joined in October of 2006 and took the time to read up on the history of SL. You are right though I did pay quite a bit of attention to the different projects and improvements made by LL.

[Tari Landar]

18 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Going by your original post in the other thread @Tari Landar your first foray into SL predates my first log in by quite some time. I joined in October of 2006 and took the time to read up on the history of SL. You are right though I did pay quite a bit of attention to the different projects and improvements made by LL.

True, but in the beginning I spent very little time paying attention to specifics, lol. It wasn't until 2008 when I actually started really paying attention to the complexities that are..sl

Now I love reading about them, sometimes talking about too, even if they seemingly have little to no effect on my own sl-life, as it were. I am truly amazed at how far sl has come, even if it hasn't been as quickly as I'd like, or others would like. It has most definitely come a very, very long way.

I also, in my earlier days of sl(even into early 2009) had a super old pc that had onboard graphics(didn't even really pass sl specs to be honest, sometimes I wondered how I got in at all, lol). In 2009 hubby bought me a graphics card, and I realized water was not just a solid  dark blue color with no character(and I liked the water in that all blue state at the time), invisible underwater pretty much, the sky had much much better coloring...things looked, well, compared to my prior experience..AMAZING!  

 

[Chris Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Windlight is the name for the upgrades to the lighting and shader engine within the main SL code made sometime around 2009. It is not to be confused with the later Advanced Lighting Model which added shadows, projectors and laid the ground work for Materials. While it is quite handy for photography that is far from its intended or even primary use.

The Firestorm feature you are thinking of is the quick access floater for a large number of graphics related settings called Photo Tools.

Its also a term related directly to those photo tools.

[Chris Corvinus]

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

How long have you been in sl? Honest curiosity here, not being snarky..you seem to come across very inexperienced with what second life used to be, used to look like, used to include. It may well project out into what you think of sl today versus what you think it should be-especially compared to other things...so, really, honest curiosity. It's hard to try and see another's perspective when it may well be skewed by some small details..(and I try to see perspectives, whether or not I agree with them..yes, I'm weird, we established that ages ago, lol) 

Windlight's intended purpose had nothing to do with photography, btw  I was here when it was first introduced..but Solar describes it much better than I(and has likely been here far longer than I, and pays far more attention to such things than I once did too, lol). Oh, and it's not a firestorm only thing, never was, never will be.   (and I don't like the LL viewer either, most folks don't, even LL will tell you that, lol) 

Not as long as most as I came in around 3-4 years ago. But when someone mentions windlight, its ALWAYS the photo tools so I just became accustomed with that.

[Chris Corvinus]

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/WindLight_Settings

So windlight is whats used to create the firestorm windlight presets then?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

8 hours ago, eighthdwarf Checchinato said:

To be honest, if I had a say at LL, there would be not a single mobile phone client anymore allowed to log into SL. Neither Pocket Metaverse (which is pretty much dead, thankfully), nor Lumiya, nor LittleSight, nor Mobile Grid Client, nor any other smartphone app I don't know about yet. In other words: If you want to log into SL, you would have no other opportunity to log in than to use a computer (or laptop, if you're "on the road"). SL is, after all, an entire virtual world, and not just a simple chat app.

Such a phone screen is way too small to show SL anyways (I even consider the 10" screen of a reasonable tablet as way too small for that), so using a smartphone to log into SL is pretty moot, imo.

I log in with Lumiya on my tablet when I'm away from home. The graphics suck, but at least i can see something. And, I get to chat with my friends. Not sure how my logging in on one of your "unapproved" devices affects your SL though.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

20 hours ago, arton Rotaru said:

*shrug*

[Solar Legion]

5 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

Its also a term related directly to those photo tools.

It is a setting those tools place together with others in a convenient place for those wishing to take photos. It has no more relation to the Photo Tools floater than Draw Distance has to the Quick Preferences floater that Firestorm has.

1 minute ago, Chrismaky said:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/WindLight_Settings

So windlight is whats used to create the firestorm windlight presets then?

It is what was used to create the many presets that Firestorm packages together as part of its install. Some of those same presets are also used by the other third party client programs. There was a time when those presets were not even present in Firestorm or even its predecessor, Phoenix. You had to either manually download and place them in the proper directory or have someone share a specially made in world asset with you that was saved similarly to note cards but processed differently by Phoenix and Firestorm. Heck when Windlight was first implemented the only way you could only add new presets by the download method or by having someone pass you a note card with the relevant settings and enter them into the Advanced Sky Editor yourself.

[Whirly Fizzle]

8 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/WindLight_Settings

So windlight is whats used to create the firestorm windlight presets then?

Yes.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

11 hours ago, Arkanus Andel said:

Thank you very much for proving my point in the clearest way possible while also showing that you react quite badly to factual information.

You assigned a monetary value to a plot of virtual land that you have not shown any intent to sell off for L$, thus meaning you are actually getting nothing whatsoever back that could be converted into real cash. In short unless you intend to sell off your plot you are getting nothing whatsoever.

$5 + $0 = $5. The value you placed on that Tier is meaningless unless you are receiving that value back, which you are not.

Now if you'd like to continue you are quite welcome to, you will be doing it alone however as I have no intention to continue refuting your erroneous information.

One more time sweetie, my 300 Linden dollars a week is worth 5 dollars US if i chose to BUY  them, NOT  sell it. Rent on a 512 is 5 dollars a month if i chose to BUY it, NOT sell it. I receive that value every month by not having to pay rent. 

Instead of paying 10 dollars a month  I pay 6 dollars a month. I save 4 dollars every month plus get the myriad of other benefits I've already listed elsewhere. Are you incapable of understanding 6 dollars is less than 10 dollars.

I save 4 dollars every month which IS real cash that I can apply elsewhere in my budget.

Oh, and you will reply, You don't want to, but you can't help it.

[Solar Legion]

@BilliJo Aldrin Will you give it a rest already? The two of you are coming at this from two opposing viewpoints and while one has already acknowledged the other's viewpoint it would seem that you will not be satisfied until you get a capitulation.

All of this over a poor choice of words while trying to act like a salesperson.

[Chris Corvinus]

Back to the original topic...

Yes, SL is dying. https://danielvoyager.wordpress.com/2017/04/03/looking-at-second-life-grid-statistics-during-q1-2017/

[Tari Landar]

45 minutes ago, Chrismaky said:

Not as long as most as I came in around 3-4 years ago. But when someone mentions windlight, its ALWAYS the photo tools so I just became accustomed with that.

I think that is more of personal habits than anything else. We tend to associate things with things we use frequently..if that makes sense. It doesn't necessarily mean that was the item's intended original purpose. But, we humans are fantastic at re-purposing things, even if only in mental association, we do it with loads of stuff. So someone equating windlight with photo tools is probably just something they're used to doing, it may be what they, specifically, use windlight for, even.

Most of the photo tools themselves are pretty young, ok maybe not as young to some folks, but young in the scope of sl as a whole. It's an evolved process, entity really, in and of itself..the whole photography tools/settings, etc..that is. Windlight can of course enhance(or not) photography, but so can draw distance-and that, of course, really has little to nothing to do with photography but rather performance. Windlight is the same way, it's more of a performance enhancer(why does that term sound dirty? lol) than it is a photography tool. We can use it to take nice(better? fantastic? weird? maybe not so good?) photos, but that's not why it was originally implemented.

 

[Chase01]

37 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

One more time sweetie, my 300 Linden dollars a week is worth 5 dollars US if i chose to BUY  them, NOT  sell it. Rent on a 512 is 5 dollars a month if i chose to BUY it, NOT sell it. I receive that value every month by not having to pay rent. 

Instead of paying 10 dollars a month  I pay 6 dollars a month. I save 4 dollars every month plus get the myriad of other benefits I've already listed elsewhere. Are you incapable of understanding 6 dollars is less than 10 dollars.

I save 4 dollars every month which IS real cash that I can apply elsewhere in my budget.

Oh, and you will reply, You don't want to, but you can't help it.

Talk about Deja vu ...

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Chrismaky said:

 But when someone mentions windlight, its ALWAYS the photo tools so I just became accustomed with that.

For some reason, I never use the Phototools floater - never got used to it.  I simply use the camera and then the Quick Prefs floater to change the windlight settings.

Someone mentioned once that I should play around with the Phototools thingy, but I've just neve gotten around to it.

ETA - I actually just pulled up that Phototools window.  It looks pretty neat - combining quite a few buttons from different places into one.  I might actually want to start using it.

Edited August 7, 2017 by LittleMe Jewell

[Rhonda Huntress]

For what it's worth, I still use LL's viewer.  I just like it better.  I also use my own windlight  environment settings most of the time. 

[Chris Corvinus]

24 minutes ago, Chase01 said:

Talk about Deja vu ...

I just view that convo as 2 politicians fighting over $4. 

[Klytyna]

6 hours ago, Chrismaky said:

Thats because events are not promoted by Linden Labs since they are are not technically "destinations" since their destinations are only open during a certain time frame. Ive been to quite a few places in that destination guide and most are DEAD.

Yeah, well, DEAD places in the destination guide, that's not because "SL is so last Decade" it's because the destination guide follows the official corporate line that "computers are for art and education and intellectual high-brow-ism, not FUN" and insists on filling the guide with conceptual art spaces, quirky photo opportunities, and learning experiences. 

I can't remember for sure, but the official sim for the IRS , back when they maintained one in SL, might have once been in the destination guide.

The guide  is filled with 'dead' places because LL have no idea, and appear to have never had any idea, what kind of places SecondLifers actually want to visit. This complete failure to comprehend their customers, is why they created Project Stupid, and why that is such a damn bust, even before it gets out of it's misnamed "open beta" alpha release...

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Klytyna

[Chris Corvinus]

24 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Yeah, well, DEAD places in the destination guide, that's not because "SL is so last Decade" it's because the destination guide follows the official corporate line that "computers are for art and education and intellectual high-brow-ism, not FUN" and insists on filling the guide with conceptual art spaces, quirky photo opportunities, and learning experiences. 

I can't remember for sure, but the official sim for the IRS , back when they maintained one in SL, might have once been in the destination guide.

The guide  is filled with 'dead' places because LL have no idea, and appear to have never had any idea, what kind of places SecondLifers actually want to visit. This complete failure to comprehend their customers, is why they created Project Stupid, and why that is such a damn bust, even before it gets out of it's misnamed "open beta" alpha release...

 

The fact that people can recommend places for the destination guide and none of those places actually make it in (or ever rarely do) is one reason why I say SL is dying and why the only thing holding up the grid are shopping events that are heavily promoted outside of SL for this very reason. 

[Phil Deakins]

9 hours ago, Chrismaky said:

But when someone mentions windlight, its ALWAYS the photo tools so I just became accustomed with that.

I was here a long time before windlight came in, and I've never related to photography. It's always been settings for the environment. Of course, it's great for setting up and taking photographs, but it's not, and never was, about photography. It's about environments.

It's a lot like the natural world. For instance, RL sunrises and sunsets can be beautiful, causing people to take photographs, but they are not created for photographs either.

[Tari Landar]

4 hours ago, Chrismaky said:

The fact that people can recommend places for the destination guide and none of those places actually make it in (or ever rarely do) is one reason why I say SL is dying and why the only thing holding up the grid are shopping events that are heavily promoted outside of SL for this very reason. 

The fact that LL doesn't actually listen to residents about what we want in the destination guide isn't really an indicator that sl itself is dying, that's always been that way. It's merely more evidence that LL doesn't listen well (which, for all intents and purposes, was LL's motto for a very long time by some accounts-including my own). I give LL props and kudos when deserved, but listening and communicating has never been a strong suit of theirs. Though they *could (hint, hint) change that at any point in time. That is actually one of their biggest downfalls, and I believe also the biggest contributing factor to the vast majority of issues-the fact that a lot of LL employees seemingly have very little knowledge of the world..sl, itself, let alone experience in it/with it.  The destination guide has been a bit of a bust in and of itself for a very long time now. I actually never recommend it to anyone, though I can, and do recommend places that might be in the guide. It's too hodge podgey for my liking, and thrown together..rather than being indicative of *actual hot spots, desired locations, and in many cases..locations that still exist. It's not updated very frequently, nor is there anyone that goes around to ensure places listed still exist. I don't think there ever has been anyone at LL that did/does that, well, I've not seen evidence that there has..I may be entirely wrong on that point (but I doubt it).

If something not being up to par was indicative of it dying, then, well, frankly, the earth itself is dying a very slow and terrible death, so...why are we worried about our virtual world doing so when we can just enjoy what we've got til it's gone, like we do everything else in life?  Then again, I've never really liked the chicken little approach, so...take that bit with a grain of salt (and some bacon, because bacon sounds delicious right about now)

 

 

[Chris Corvinus]

51 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

The fact that LL doesn't actually listen to residents about what we want in the destination guide isn't really an indicator that sl itself is dying, that's always been that way. It's merely more evidence that LL doesn't listen well (which, for all intents and purposes, was LL's motto for a very long time by some accounts-including my own). I give LL props and kudos when deserved, but listening and communicating has never been a strong suit of theirs. Though they *could (hint, hint) change that at any point in time. That is actually one of their biggest downfalls, and I believe also the biggest contributing factor to the vast majority of issues-the fact that a lot of LL employees seemingly have very little knowledge of the world..sl, itself, let alone experience in it/with it.  The destination guide has been a bit of a bust in and of itself for a very long time now. I actually never recommend it to anyone, though I can, and do recommend places that might be in the guide. It's too hodge podgey for my liking, and thrown together..rather than being indicative of *actual hot spots, desired locations, and in many cases..locations that still exist. It's not updated very frequently, nor is there anyone that goes around to ensure places listed still exist. I don't think there ever has been anyone at LL that did/does that, well, I've not seen evidence that there has..I may be entirely wrong on that point (but I doubt it).

If something not being up to par was indicative of it dying, then, well, frankly, the earth itself is dying a very slow and terrible death, so...why are we worried about our virtual world doing so when we can just enjoy what we've got til it's gone, like we do everything else in life?  Then again, I've never really liked the chicken little approach, so...take that bit with a grain of salt (and some bacon, because bacon sounds delicious right about now)

 

 

Its more toward bringing in newer people than keeping the ones already in SL. The first thing they are told to do is to check the destination guide. They go to a few places and most are just not impressed. One college student gave a youtube review of Second Life for a school project and described SL as poor graphics and outdated, mostly dead with a heavy learning curve. Although she did make a few friends but it wasn't enough to impress her. Thats the crowd Second Life NEEDS to bring in and its really sad that not alot of people understand that. Something like this cannot be old school forever.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

Another thing is everyone is on their little smart phones.  I showed my daughter the game and first thing she asked "can I play it on my phone?"  Sadly the game is losing people.  I just had to move a club due to the owner quitting after a decade and closing his sim.  And some probably think Sansar might take players too.

[Chris Corvinus]

6 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Another thing is everyone is on their little smart phones.  I showed my daughter the game and first thing she asked "can I play it on my phone?"  Sadly the game is losing people.  I just had to move a club due to the owner quitting after a decade and closing his sim.  And some probably think Sansar might take players too.

Its waay too sophisticated to bring to mobile devices. The only option for mobile is the heavily skimmed 3D version...Lumiya. But thats just basic functioning. And DONT play it on data...it will eat all your data in 5 mins lol

[Winged Heron]

SL began to die when they overpriced land etc years back pushing out a lot of owners who then went to cheaper virtual worlds. I have a SIM which I share with 2 others. Some stay some leave and I need to get new residents but we have a great partnerships. Once upon a time for the price we paid we could have had 2 SIMs. As it is as the registered partner based in Europe, I pay the VAT not passing it to SIM partners. Many organisation also once were connected in SL - even the UN. The UN gave up the SIM as a result of the change in charges. It is depressing. I persevere but for how long I have no idea. Currently looking for a new 3rd but with pick up that cost even though once upon a time it would have been easy. 

 

If Linden wants to price SL out of existence it has done a wonderful job. May they should rethink to revive as the "patient" may not be at a terminal stage yet!