Is it against the rules to copybot an item that's no longer available?

[Sara Nova]

If the creator of an item I want went out of business, then if I figure out how, am I allowed to copybot it off someone else? If not, then how else am I going to get the item?

I wouldn't resell it or anything, of course.

[Alicia Sautereau]

We need a facepalm smiley

[Maryanne Solo]

You've presented a great argument.

I dont think anyone has ever stated their need that way before. *nods wisely

Please come back and show us the results once you are done.

Pics and a description of how would be really excellent!

Thx!  \o_

[DJ Under]

Copybots are ILLEGAL in Second Life. No matter what their purpose is.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Copying no copy items is against the rules, yes. Using a copybot enabled viewer is enough to get you permanently banned. You may no longer be able to legitimately get that particular item, but you could probably find one similar or better or even learn how to make your own.

[Saraya Starr]

Of course not...

[Ceka Cianci]

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MyAlt4099 wrote:

If the creator of an item I want went out of business, then if I figure out how, am I allowed to copybot it off someone else? If not, then how else am I going to get the item?

I wouldn't resell it or anything, of course.

---

it doesn't matter if someone has a business or not..their permissions still stand on their creations. 

 

 

 

[Ariel Vuissent]

:matte-motes-stress:

Yes. Copybotting ANY item is against the ToS. Don't do it. If the item is no longer available, then you can't get it, period. Copybotting it can and likely will get you banned. It doesn't matter if the creator is still inworld or not.

Look for a similar item. If the item is transferrable, you can look for someone to sell you their copy. Chances are the item is either copy, no transfer, or transfer, no copy. If it's no transfer, there's nothing to be done, but if it's no copy but trans, you can look for someone who has the item and doesn't want it anymore.

It doesn't really matter if you would resell it or not; you still can't copybot it.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

you could look on the market place under used items ..maybe someone is selling one if it is transfer no copy..

[madman626 Fall]

the copyright is a rl copyright where its in SL or other 3D worlds ,,, from my unstanding copyrights will stand for a 100 years,, less it was passed to family.

[Bernie Shippe]

didn't we already go through this in february?

[Sara Nova]

I believe I did post a similar thread recently. If anyone can point me in the right direction to get it legitimately, the store is called Armidi

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Yes, it seems to be a recurring theme with you...

Might I suggest you read the TOS a bit more closely?

Pay particular attention to section 7.8.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

There is a place called The Warehouse that sells al lthe discontinued armidi clothes.  Here it is in search.  I am not in world now so can't grab a slurl.  It is owned by Armidi.  It is a large place and  they seem to have everything Armidi used to sell at the flagship stores.

So see, there is no reason to break the law.  And the creator is still in SL, and has a shop.  The copyrights on her items wouldn't expire anyway if she had left.

[Sara Nova]

Thanks, but I'm looking for some of their hair, and that isn't there. Where can I find that?

[Ceka Cianci]

maybe if you show us the style you are looking for we can help find you a similar or even maybe a style better you may like..

 there is a good chance we can find you a good or better substitute =)

[Phil Deakins]

Of course it's against the rules to copybot another person's stuff, regardless of whether or not the other person still uses SL.

In this case, you've learned that the owner still uses SL so you can ask him/her for the item.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

The description of The Warehouse says

"Also shop our permanent collection of $100L fashion, shoes, dresses, hair, heels"

It is a hugeplace with lots of rooms that would take more than a few minutes to go through.  Perhaps you just didn't look hard enough.

[Orca Flotta]

I wouldn't resell it or anything, of course.

Mhm, I used exactly that argument once ... got reported and subsequentely suspended for 3 days. Some creators even banned me from their sims after that. Afterall it wasn't too bad and gives me the fuzzy warm feeling of being a true anarchist.

It was way back in the old times. All I did was combining 2 items that I both legally own (skin and tattoo) to save on clothing layers. So I wasn't really a bad girl. Anyway, it's against the TOS and copyright and intellectual property  rights and whatnot so I got what I deserved. Funny enough the original creators of neither the skin nor the tat were amonst the ppl who banned me. My only mistake was to first ask around in forum and later even posting about the conspirational meeting I had with the copybotter. If you keep it quiet and don't brag about it you should be fine.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Orca Flotta wrote:

If you keep it quiet and don't brag about it you should be fine.

 

---

 

So it is OK to violate somoene's IP rights as long as you don't get caught?  That's just a rationalization.  It is NEVER ok. 

[Orca Flotta]

  It is NEVER ok.

 

Yeah right. It isn't ok. And as I said I got what I deserved. On the other hand it was my rightfully purchased skin and also my rightfully purchased ink. I know, I know, it's still illegal. But then I didn't cheat anybody out of their income, didn't cause no harm, was just playing with my own stuff for my own amusement and for the ability to wear a top that needed all 3 layers + my tattoo.

Well, nowadays, much more clever and clued up I wouldn't buy a top that is so carelessly using up all my clothing layers anymore. So the merchant wouldn't get my money in the first place.

[Sara Nova]

I wish Linden Lab had your line of thinking, Orca. Why are the Lindens so obsessed with copyright? I mean sure, protecting others' IP rights is very important. But as long as 1) nobody's making any money off of it, 2) nobody is being denied money they deserve, and 3) you aren't falsely claiming something as your own, the Terms of Service really seem to be the only reason something isn't OK. I understand you being suspended for violating the ToS, Orca. But other than that, I really don't see anything you did wrong. As for copyright, I'm sure what you did would qualify as fair use in any decent court of law.

Also, I'm aware someone may argue that since a copybotted item has the copybotter's name listed under Creator, that technically goes against point 3 above. If I was permitted under the ToS to copy Armidi's item, I would be sure to make note of that in the item's description, which is shown everywhere the item's creator is. That way, nobody's rights would be infringed.

Linden Lab really needs to rewrite that portion of the ToS to allow for fair use. Despite the reputation it has, there are (IMO) valid reasons to copy an item that don't infringe on the creator's rights, and I would love it if LL agreed so I could actually do so.

As for the item I'm looking for, the hair is called The Short V. And I clicked on the link and did a Ctrl-F search for "hair", and didn't find anything. I also visited the location and can't find it using Firestorm's area search tool.

[161488303349]

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MyAlt4099 wrote:

 

Linden Lab really needs to rewrite that portion of the ToS to allow for fair use. .

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they cant do this. linden cant pick and choose the parts of the Berne Convention that they might want to apply. the fair use provision under the Convention only cover using a portion of the copyrighted work. it dont cover a whole other copy

only way linden can do what you asking for legal would be to require creators/designers to assign the copyright to linden as a condition of using the service. is pretty messy that

+

edit add: the messy part is how do linden know beyond legal doubt that the copyright assigned to them do actual belong to the uploader

 

 

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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MyAlt4099 wrote:

Why are the Lindens so obsessed with copyright? I mean sure, protecting others' IP rights is very important. But as long as 1) nobody's making any money off of it, 2) nobody is being denied money they deserve, and 3) you aren't falsely claiming something as your own, the Terms of Service really seem to be the only reason something isn't OK.

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It goes waaaay beyond the Lindens and the SL TOS. One also doesn't have to be making money using someone else's (stolen) intellectual property to be in violation of copyright law.

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If I was permitted under the ToS to copy Armidi's item, I would be sure to make note of that in the item's description, which is shown everywhere the item's creator is. That way, nobody's rights would be infringed.

---

Oh, how generous of you.

---

Linden Lab really needs to rewrite that portion of the ToS to allow for fair use. Despite the reputation it has, there are (IMO) valid reasons to copy an item that don't infringe on the creator's rights, and I would love it if LL agreed so I could actually do so.

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How is circumventing the permissions that a creator has assigned not infringing on their rights?

You acknowledge that the Content of the Service is provided or made available to you under license from Linden Lab and independent Content providers, including other users of the Service ("Content Providers"). You acknowledge and agree that except as expressly provided in this Agreement, the Intellectual Property Rights of Linden Lab and other Content Providers in their respective Content are not licensed to you by your mere use of the Service. You must obtain from the applicable Content Providers any necessary license rights in Content that you desire to use or access.

 

Linden Lab and other Content Providers may use the normal functionality of the Service, including the permissions system and the copy, modify, and transfer settings, to indicate how you may use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, or perform their respective Content solely In-World. You acknowledge and agree that the permissions system and other functionality of the Service do not grant you any license, consent, or permission to copy, modify, transfer, or use in any manner any Content outside the Service.

 

You agree that you will not copy, transfer, or distribute outside the Service any Content that contains any Linden In-World Content, in whole or in part or in modified or unmodified form, except as allowed by the Snapshot and Machinima Policy, or that infringes or violates any Intellectual Property Rights of Linden Lab, other Content Providers, or any third parties.

[Bernie Shippe]

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Orca Flotta wrote:

I wouldn't resell it or anything, of course.

 

Mhm, I used exactly that argument once ... got reported and subsequentely suspended for 3 days. Some creators even banned me from their sims after that. Afterall it wasn't too bad and gives me the fuzzy warm feeling of being a true anarchist.

It was way back in the old times. All I did was combining 2 items that I both legally own (skin and tattoo) to save on clothing layers. So I wasn't really a bad girl. Anyway, it's against the TOS and copyright and intellectual property  rights and whatnot so I got what I deserved. Funny enough the original creators of neither the skin nor the tat were amonst the ppl who banned me. My only mistake was to first ask around in forum and later even posting about the conspirational meeting I had with the copybotter. If you keep it quiet and don't brag about it you should be fine.

 

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it's a shame you got treated that way. technically you might have broke the tos or the law but as for as i'm concerned you didn't do anything wrong (morally, ethically)

 

edit - also, op is talking about something different - copying something they never owned in the first place.  that's not right.