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Mandi Iskast

Adverts now on marketplace GRRR

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16 wrote:

a search engine is a database underneath. a big one true. but is still a database and that's all

when run a search engine query then it returns a dataset in a session. the dataset don't change until the session ends. is why the search engine server can serve up pages/linksets from within the dataset without repeating itself when click next page next page. if it didn't then would never reach the end

bc this is true then can download the entire dataset for that session just by clicking More/next button/link at the bottom of the page

when you make a new keyword or use same keyword and press Search button then it creates another new session and creates another dataset

the dataset is filtered client side to tag the links by color. bc the filtering is the same mechanic then instead of tag purple. don't display it

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am not sure why you think that to enable this then it has to be done server side. doing it server side don't add anything bc the dataset remain constant until the session ends

edit: like add anything capability that cant be done client side already 

You are pretty much correct about how an engine deals with a query. It does produce a 'results set' (it's called a 'results set') for a query and, if there are more than 1000 matches in the results set, the main engines deliver just the top 1000 to the user - 10 at a time by default. What you're now suggesting is that the browser could get all 1000 results in one go and filter out any that you've already visited. You haven't suggested that before but I'll go along with it. It would require the engines to make a change because, although the user can choose how many result per page to receive, I don't think it can be as high as 1000, but I may be wrong about that. It would also require a change in the browser so that the option to filter out any results that already exists in the History can be set.

 

I've just been rummaging in Google and what you want almost exists. I'm surprised but, if you don't turn it off, Google does store your searchterms, the results it gave you, AND the pages you visited from the results. It stores your history that relates to your Google searches. You can then do searches and receive only the results of pages you visited. What you can't do is receive only the results that you haven't visited. It does the mirror image of what you want. The details are here.

With the Advanced Search, you used to be able to change the number of results per page but I can't see any way to do that now and it looks like you can only get 10 results per page. Also, it used to be easy to find the Advanced Search page. The link used to be on the front page, but I couldn't find it anywhere. I resorted to doing a search for 'google advanced search'.

 

I didn't say that. I've said that it could be done by the browser, but not by the engine. Since discovering that Google stores you history, including the results delivered and the pages you've visited, it's clear that they could deliver only unvisited results quickly and easily. But they wouldn't be results that haven't been delivered to you before. They just be stored results that you've seen before but haven't visited. They could do it a bit more slowly and get the normal results set, do comparisons with your visited history, and only send unvisited results. They could do it, but I don't think they will, because, as shops sometimes tell us when we ask for something they don't have in stock, there is no call for it.

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After I'd turned the computer off last night and was about to got to bed, a thought occurred to me that I would have posted if the computer was still on....

I understand what you want, and I don't disagree with it in any way. It would be excellent if it were an option. We're only on opposite sides of this discussion because I don't see that it will happen, and I do see that the way it is now is highly suitable for your needs - not absolute perfection but highly suitable. The only effective differences between the way it is now and the way you'd like it to be, are (1) a few clicks to get more pages of results with blue ones in them, and (2) the current way is slower but the difference can be counted in seconds, which isn't very much at all.

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:


16 wrote:

i said:
"when the web was first invented it was designed to be a research tool
". i not say the internet

the web hyperlink was invented/designed by researchers primarily for their own use in the first iteration. while also knowing that it might be of some use in other kinds of fields   

the internet wasn't invented to enable the web. it was invented to allow persistent connections to be maintained/routed in the event of hardware failures. like for military use in that first iteration 

I wrote about the web, not the internet. I mentioned that the internet already existed when the web was invented.

You actually wrote "
when the web was first invented it was designed to be a research tool. a repository of indexed documents. that could be searched and info relevant to the researcher could be located. then it changed into a consumer tool"
". I wrote that the web wasn't designed to be a repository of indexed documents. The repository, if you could call it that, already existed in the computers connected to the internet. The web was invented to give easier access to those documents via the hyperlink. The hyperlink was the start of the web. It merely made it easier to fetch a document without the person who wants it knowing where it is on the global network of computers (the internet)..

The creation of the internet wasn't to maintain persistent connections. Perhaps you meant that it allowed connections to be made between 2 computers via many different routes. Or perhaps you were referring to the hard wiring between computers as persistent connections.

yes my bad. by persistent connection I mean a persistent session. when there is blockage/failure between the endpoints then the session is rerouted thru a different pathway to enable the session to persist/continue

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yes also. I write "to be a repository of indexed documents". which put a different meaning on it. should have said:  "for a repository ...". bc you right that a repository/library of documents already existed. it was way smaller than now but it did exist already. and the then form of its existence provide the need/impetus for the invention of the hyperlink

the web being a description given by its makers to the collection/group of hyperlinks and help to describe how they combine together. web of hyperlinks. which a pretty good description of it I think

 

 

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Ansariel Hiller wrote:

Your are still discussing? LOL!

yes. is usual my fault when me and Phil go on and on and on.... and on. it usual start with me saying something like: I want to know what I don't know more easy. and I want the computer to help me know this and show me what I don't know

I know what I mean when I say this. but is a bit unclear sometimes. so when I do this then is fair when Phil and other people as well sometimes go: how can the computer know what you don't know if you don't know yourself? can you be more precise please?

so I try do that. and it can go on and on and on and on sometimes. to get to the clear point (:

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I didn't say that. I've said that it could be done by the browser, but not by the engine. Since discovering that Google stores you history, including the results delivered and the pages you've visited, it's clear that they could deliver only unvisited results quickly and easily. But they wouldn't be results that haven't been delivered to you before. They just be stored results that you've seen before but haven't visited. They could do it a bit more slowly and get the normal results set, do comparisons with your visited history, and only send unvisited results.

 

it is was bc I already got a recorded history that I start to think about what I would like to have that could help me find stuff faster that I don't know yet. meaning I don't know what is the content yet of the blue link

I know what is the content of the purple link bc I already opened it. and if was useful/important to me then I already bookmark. so I don't want to see the same link again at this time on the main page when I am looking for stuff on the same keyword

if I delete my bookmark and my history then my computer don't know anymore about what I looked at already - has no memory/record of it. so start over

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computer cant remember everything I ever looked at forever bc of space and time. so has to be some eventual limit. even if is/was only a few thousand most recent (or however many can fit in) then I be happy with that bc can understand why that has to be

 

 

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

After I'd turned the computer off last night and was about to got to bed, a thought occurred to me that I would have posted if the computer was still on....

I understand what you want, and I don't disagree with it in any way. It would be excellent if it were an option. We're only on opposite sides of this discussion because I don't see that it will happen, and I do see that the way it is now is highly suitable for your needs - not absolute perfection but highly suitable. The only effective differences between the way it is now and the way you'd like it to be, are (1) a few clicks to get more pages of results with blue ones in them, and (2) the current way is slower but the difference can be counted in seconds, which isn't very much at all.

 

I show a way that I use the search so can explain/see better how being able to filter out the purple links can help me better. I use the Bing search for the example. Google search the same tho pretty much 

I enter keyword ""kolmogorov complexity"

is 24,500 links reported available on the search for this keyword. the vast majority of them are links to academic papers. essays. student assignments. app/algo descriptions and discussions

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on the right side of the main links is a list of related keywords:

Kolmogorov Length : Kolmogorov Theory : Kolmogorov Distance : Message Complexity : Algorithmic Complexity : Randomness and String Theory : Algorithmic Information Theory : Minimal Description Length

so that's good. get what I asked for and get some hints about related areas of research

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so I start opening the links and reading the contents. bookmarking as I go. bookmark the ones that add some new insight to my understanding of the subject. close out the ones that don't add anything to what I already know 

can take many hours to do this. over days and weeks even. the research

if I had the don't show purple link option then it would make it easier. bc when after some hundreds and I come back to it at other times then can get pages and pages of purple links. which I want to avoid if possible

also when I change the keyword say to: Minimal Description Length. then many of the links I already seen show up again in purple

 

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It's not difficult to write a browser that will do exactly what you want. High level programming languages come with a ready-made basic browser VB does, anyway, and I assume others do too. So creating the browser itself takes seconds - not even minutes. Then it's just a matter of writing the programming to filter out the visited links. It would have to get all the results, visited and not visited, from the engine, but it could store every page you visit from your browsing, and use that data to filter out the visited ones.

Engines are very unlikely to include what you want as an option because there is no call for it. One person wanting it doesn't mean that there's a 'call' for it. However, it can't hurt ask them for it. I don't know about the other majors but Google is extremely good at dealing with individuals.

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yes I think I will have to see if anyone else thought about it. maybe on chromium or something like that

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just about difference between research and consumer search

the search engine algo knows the difference between the two. keywords indexed by type as well

I made 2 pics. the first is the research keyword like we was talking about. the second is a consumer keyword. again same as before

can see that is handled differently. like a consumer keyword gets adverts. a research keyword don't. is quite clever that

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bingkc.jpg

 

 

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bingwb.jpg

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I've just seen these now when logging into the market place.. I hope SL/LL are not in trouble financally.. it makes me think they are due to being so depserate.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

You sleep with manuals, don't you?

q;

q;

q;

where I read that before lol (:

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is really interesting kolmogorov. how it works. I start to learn about it when the mesh deformer was first being made. then just go on from there. learn about shortest path and decision trees and things like that

i dont understand much of it really altogether. the math makes my head hurt. but if I read a essay or paper that explain it a bit more then it goes better. some of the ones that students write are easier bc they writing to explain it. where some of the more advanced ones assume that you know some stuff already. which I don't really. so they hard going sometimes. but oh! well

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what I learn from it mostly is that it apply to game mechanics quite a lot. so am finding that bc I got a better understanding now about how the programmers/game designers make their NPCs and quest/puzzles then I am winning more now. like can get to the next level faster/better than before. still have to grind it sometimes but I get more insights now on what to do next. stuff like that. so is pretty worthwhile for me to keep learning about it

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I think you'll find that your 'research searchterm' didn't get any ads because none were available for that term, and not because the engine somehow recognised your search as research.

And I now see, for the first time, the same banner ads in this forum. On this page where I'm typing this, anyway, but I'm sure they'll be on other forum pages as well. One thing they must not do is place the ads in the middle of the list of posts. Some forums do that - n posts, ad, n posts, ad, etc. and that's one place where I dislike them a lot.

ETA: Yep. The ads are all over this forum but thankfully not between posts. And, because I'm seeing plenty of them, it's obvious that they are geo-targeted.

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If you are that concerned about having adverts removed/blocked then you could go here

 

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/search/ad%20blockers?hl=en

 

a nice selection of them here.

I use AdBlock myself and it is very good. Pages load a lot faster and also it stops this website, among others looking tacky and cheap. I can understand the need for adverts as LL have a source of revenue from these no doubt [pay per click or the like]

Personally I prefer my web browsing to be advert free. If I want to shop online then I'll go to online shopping sites and look for what I want. I have no wish to be told what I want to shop for or "what I like" etc. I know what I want and what I like.

Details for this adblocker, and others on that link from the Chrome Webstore, these are also available for other Web Browsers too.

These are not illegal nor do they have spyware etc.

So take a look and see for yourself.

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