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Mandi Iskast

Adverts now on marketplace GRRR

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Freya Mokusei wrote:


Six Igaly wrote:

Did some research in the browser preferences..it is obvious, already using AdBlock, that explains.

Smug responses like this forget that AdBlock only works because you're willing to put your trust in [unknown] people to malform your received web content, and subjugate to others the power to decide what you shouldn't see.

What happens when those up-stream decide they don't want these things getting in the way of their profit margins? For those who once enjoyed Google's toys, this is
on mobile devices.

The purity of the stream starts at home; LL can do whatever they like to their revenue. AdBlock is a poor noob's solution.

in Internet Explorer 10 is Tracking Protection. it turned on by default now. in IE9 and before was turned off by default

it allow you to make lists of urls that you want to block. you can also download lists made by other people and install

Microsoft made a tracking protection list that include Google Ads. is optional this and not installed by default.  so the web browser wars continue

+

the thing is tho that people are very inventive. Tracking Protection has both black and white list capability controls. block and allow. so whats already happening is that some people are making lists that active block everyone else's advert urls. and give whitelist status to others. and then selling whitelist status on their lists to "good" advertisers. good meaning them who pay 

is kinda funny that (:

 

 

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Six Igaly wrote:

Thank you for your patience :smileyhappy:

I think however, what I really need to hear, is it or is it not a bad thing to use, for me or for others because of me? I don't want to spoil anything for anyone you see. And if it is a bad thing (and somehow I sense it is in the meanwhile) I will be the first to delete it.

Using ad blocker software only blocks what you see on your PC; it has no bearing whatsoever on what other people see on their computers.

An analogy that came to mind on this topic:  television programs sell ads (commercials) to bring in revenue; however, there are now many devices that allow people to skip commercials entirely, usually via taping the program in some manner.  Someone who skips commercials (or simply walks out of the room when they are on) does not prevent someone else from seeing the commercials.

is truth that

the congruency is applied in SL inworld the same way. while the servers deliver up the same experience to everyone. can turn stuff on/off. so the view can be different for different people looking at the same scene

+

where the congruency differ (and is wrong to do) is like how Phil said

a 3rd party is modding the view in ways not intended by the server/site/service owner. and deliver this mod view to the user

is like when Linden tell TPVs that they cant add stuff to their viewers which changes the view of the linden inworld/site/view for other people using other viewers. can allow users to change their own view. cant change other peoples views

 

  

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"What is on a website is the sole business of the owner(s), and nobody ele's business at all - not yours and not mine."

 

The content sold on that site is made by the people who post their wares there. They have an interest in the site. The site would have no reason to exist without user content.

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Whats new ?  I don't mind the ad's they aren't out of control like most sites. And helps Linden Labs pay da bill, so i'm not mad at all. Sometimes I might click a few just to give the extra cents.

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Oh yeah I love those new profiles so much, 4 of 5 times I get host not found.   I have seen secondlife improve a lot, but web profiles and adsense is not among them


Ansariel Hiller wrote:

Wait until they show up inworld when opening somebody's profile - thanks to those awesome web profiles!
;)



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Lorraine Jupiter wrote:

"What is on a website is the sole business of the owner(s), and nobody ele's business at all - not yours and not mine."

 The content sold on that site is made by the people who post their wares there. They have an interest in the site. The site would have no reason to exist without user content.

You are right, of course, but, as I said, what is on a website is the sole business of the owner(s), and nobody else's business at all - not yours and not mine - and that includes all of LL's websites. If a person doesn't like what LL does with their own websites, they are free to not use them. The fact of posting stuff for sale in the marketplace site, doesn't give anyone any rights in the site, or what is displayed on the pages, whatoever. The marketplace pages are all owned by LL, and nobody else, and what goes on those pages is solely LL's business.

Whether or not there are alternatives to the marketplace is irrelevant but, as it happens, there are alternative places to buy and sell SL stuff - SL, for instance.

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Agree! And that is why I pay for the services (without LL no SL right). Just as I buy apps for my smartphone, to support the developers and to not have advertisements with it.

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Six Igaly wrote:

Agree! And that is why I pay for the services (without LL no SL right). Just as I buy apps for my smartphone, to support the developers and to
not
have advertisements with it.

You don't pay for LL services not to have advertisements; i.e. no ads is not part of the deal bectween you and LL. You simply pay for LL services. You do have an alternative if you are so much against seeing advertisements - stop using the places that show them. It's *entirely* your choice :)

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Six Igaly wrote:

Agree! And that is why I pay for the services (without LL no SL right). Just as I buy apps for my smartphone, to support the developers and to
not
have advertisements with it.

You don't pay for LL services not to have advertisements; i.e. no ads is not part of the deal bectween you and LL. You simply pay for LL services. You do have an alternative if you are so much against seeing advertisements - stop using the places that show them. It's *entirely* your choice 
:)

No you have another alternative : Install adblock or adblock plus and bye bye ads !

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You are totally right, somehow this topic went away with me. You see I don't really mind ads on the MP that much. I just started replying because I could not understand what people were talking about, I'd never seen any ad. Then I realized I had this Adblocker active myself. Not for MP, but installed it long ago to get rid of some annoying ads on some of my favorite websites. (The remarks about buying my apps still stands though.)

So, I rest my case now. At least I learned things because of this topic, and that is always worth something IMO :smileyhappy:

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:


Six Igaly wrote:

Agree! And that is why I pay for the services (without LL no SL right). Just as I buy apps for my smartphone, to support the developers and to
not
have advertisements with it.

You don't pay for LL services not to have advertisements; i.e. no ads is not part of the deal bectween you and LL. You simply pay for LL services. You do have an alternative if you are so much against seeing advertisements - stop using the places that show them. It's *entirely* your choice 
:)

No you have another alternative : Install adblock or adblock plus and bye bye ads !

That too.

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Just a related aside...

I am very surprised how much some people dislike advertisements. I can't understand it. The only thing I can think of is that it is on principle because ads don't get in anyone's way, and the 'on principle' reason is not a valid reason at all. I'm not talking about things like spam phone calls, spam mail, and spam email, all of which require a small amount of time to deal with, so they do get in the way a little bit.

I'm in the UK where one of the top TV providers is Virgin Media. (VM). VM have the sole UK rights to TiVo, which is an american PVR (personal video recorder) that is full of features that no other system in the UK can even get close to. The TiVo is designed so that ads can be put in a lot of places - in the menus, etc. Recently ads started appearing when the Pause button is pressed - both live and recorded programmes. The ads are unintrusive, especially since pausing a programme is done when choosing to stop watching the screen temporarily. But some people strongly object to the ads and I don't understand why. Like here, the objectors are a small but significant minority.

I suppose I'm writing this post to state that there is no valid reason whatsoever to object to the sort of ads being complained about in several threads here, and in VM threads concerning the TiVo. The idea that 'I just don't want to be advertised to', which I've seen written, doesn't hold even a drop of water as a valid reason. I'm not saying that people shouldn't have that attitude because it's entirely up to each individual. What I do say is that those people ought not to object to the sort of ads they object to. Even if there is no way to avoid them, they ought not to object because it's an extremely selfish attitude. But there is always the alternative of simply not using places where ads appear.

If there are valid rerasons, I'd like to know what they are.

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I think for me that 3rd party adverts on the general webpages and marketplace when not logged in are ok

+

I worry a little bit tho about 3rd party adverts when logged in on your SL account. 3rd party meaning non-SL members

one of the foundations of SL has always been privacy. like anonymity. as we choose or not for ourselves. linden have always guarded this jealously up til now

linden enabling 3rd party advertisers the opportunity to make associations between our SL persona and our RL visits to other websites is quite a fundamental change to our current understanding of linden and SL

yes we can adblock and we can set browser to tracking protection. but these only voluntary adherence measures. like voluntary for the 3rd party to observe or not as they choose

+

am not sure how this going to end up

but if I end up getting same adverts when I log into SL website as I do when I am on other websites for other reasons RL then am going to worry quite a bit about that

 

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16 wrote:

I worry a little bit tho about 3rd party adverts when logged in on your SL account. 3rd party meaning non-SL members

one of the foundations of SL has always been privacy. like anonymity. as we choose or not for ourselves. linden have always guarded this jealously up til now

linden enabling 3rd party advertisers the opportunity to make associations between our SL persona and our RL visits to other websites is quite a fundamental change to our current understanding of linden and SL
 

Excellent point!

 

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16 wrote:

I think for me that 3rd party adverts on the general webpages and marketplace when not logged in are ok

+

I worry a little bit tho about 3rd party adverts when logged in on your SL account. 3rd party meaning non-SL members

one of the foundations of SL has always been privacy. like anonymity. as we choose or not for ourselves. linden have always guarded this jealously up til now

linden enabling 3rd party advertisers the opportunity to make associations between our SL persona and our RL visits to other websites is quite a fundamental change to our current understanding of linden and SL 

It doesn't work like that, 16. 3rd party advertisers have no access whatsoever to your SL persona. All they can ever get is your IP address and the URL of the page you are on. Just like everyother page and file request that your browser makes. That's it. It makes no difference whether or not you are logged into the site.

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Phil Deakins wrote:


16 wrote:

I think for me that 3rd party adverts on the general webpages and marketplace when not logged in are ok

+

I worry a little bit tho about 3rd party adverts when logged in on your SL account. 3rd party meaning non-SL members

one of the foundations of SL has always been privacy. like anonymity. as we choose or not for ourselves. linden have always guarded this jealously up til now

linden enabling 3rd party advertisers the opportunity to make associations between our SL persona and our RL visits to other websites is quite a fundamental change to our current understanding of linden and SL 

It doesn't work like that, 16. 3rd party advertisers have no access whatsoever to your SL persona. All they can ever get is your IP address and the URL of the page you are on. Just like everyother page and file request that your browser makes. That's it. It makes no difference whether or not you are logged into the site.

yes it do

if i login to marketplace and enter boots in the search then the url says: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&search%5Bcategory_id%5D=&search%5Bmaturity_level%5D=G&search%5Bkeywords%5D=boots

if i go to my About on this forums then: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/373213

on my SL account page then it says: https://secondlife.com/my/account/?lang=en-US

if go to my Accounts then: https://secondlife.com/my/account/statement.php?lang=en-US

+

is a picture forming about me just off this. can know

1) my IP address

2) that i read english

3) that i read my financial account records (deduce i got money)

4) that i search for boots (and everything else)

it get better ok

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&search%5Blayout%5D=gallery&search%5Bcategory_id%5D=&search%5Bsort%5D=&search%5Bper_page%5D=12&search%5Bkeywords%5D=boots&search%5Bprice_low%5D=101&search%5Bprice_high%5D=500&search%5Bprim_count_low%5D=&search%5Bprim_count_high%5D=&search%5Bcopy_permission%5D=0&search%5Bmodify_permission%5D=0&search%5Btransfer_permission%5D=0

can now know from this url that i am looking for boots upto 500L

+

even better more

things like the forum ID can be used if passed to the advertiser as well in the URL. to find out my account name. and can also now parse the forums to even know what i think and chat about. what i like and don't like

+

how much of this linden will allow to be passed to 3rd party advertisers i dunno

if pass all then can tie this to my IP address. and help make IP profiles. even when is multiple people in the same house using the same IP address

like if the urls about kittens and cartoons and kids games then ok is a child in that house. if is others about child raising and womens clothes then ok Mum is online. and so on

it happen all the time this on the interwebz

like i quite often browse other shopping type RL websites. like search and click on stuff i might be interested in. for days after. weeks even sometimes. the adverts for what i was looking at follow me all over the interwebz

+

this above is an innocuous search for boots. but what about Adult stuff for people who search for that?

is ok if is only going to go to SL merchants this adverts service. like a closed service

but i worry if this info is going to be made available to 3rd party advertisers. which they will add to the profiles they keep on every IP address when they get it

RL IP profile which include other RL web activities. real names and addresses even in many cases

some advert companies are pretty responsible about all this. lots aren't tho

 

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I think Phil has written that he did once do a lot of work with internet data mining/advertising/that sort of thing, so I'll just read both of your perspectives and learn. But it's no use you trying to ignore things by posting to unrelated topics.

Sooner or later you're going to have to go here and respond. For the record, I agree with Charolotte: you are pretty sneaky.:smileywink:

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yes Phil do SEO stuff

so am just saying what about this and what about that. at the moment

if am wrong then he will say why. so that will be ok. and i learn off him

+

about the other thing

eep!

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Just a related aside...

I am very surprised how much some people dislike advertisements. I can't understand it. The only thing I can think of is that it is on principle because ads don't get in anyone's way, and the 'on principle' reason is not a valid reason at all. I'm not talking about things like spam phone calls, spam mail, and spam email, all of which require a small amount of time to deal with, so they do get in the way a little bit.

I'm in the UK where one of the top TV providers is Virgin Media. (VM). VM have the sole UK rights to TiVo, which is an american PVR (personal video recorder) that is full of features that no other system in the UK can even get close to. The TiVo is designed so that ads can be put in a lot of places - in the menus, etc. Recently ads started appearing when the Pause button is pressed - both live and recorded programmes. The ads are unintrusive, especially since pausing a programme is done when choosing to stop watching the screen temporarily. But some people strongly object to the ads and I don't understand why. Like here, the objectors are a small but significant minority.

I suppose I'm writing this post to state that there is no valid reason whatsoever to object to the sort of ads being complained about in several threads here, and in VM threads concerning the TiVo. The idea that 'I just don't want to be advertised to', which I've seen written, doesn't hold even a drop of water as a valid reason. I'm not saying that people shouldn't have that attitude because it's entirely up to each individual. What I do say is that those people ought not to object to the sort of ads they object to. Even if there is no way to avoid them, they ought not to object because it's an extremely selfish attitude. But there is always the alternative of simply not using places where ads appear.

If there are valid rerasons, I'd like to know what they are.

I can explain it in a couple of ways. Every single day, we're bombarded with people trying to sell us stuff. It gets tiring. Sometimes, people just think feel invaded. They see an advertisement somewhere and think of it as another sanctuary that fell. Another place invaded by unsolicited offers that they once came to escape from that exact thing. Really, some people just need to vent because enough is enough. Each individual advert is minor, but it's consistent and grating, like a little kid who keeps asking "are we there yet?"

The second point is that the web is a bit different than tv. Advertisement on tv is pretty much targeted by time frame, nature of the tv program, etc. It's about people who watch _______ might be inclined to buy _________. The internet, however, has earned a reputation as a place to have your privacy completely demolished. Ads have become the symbol of corporations watching voyeuristically for no good reason. All the data mining that goes on, all that money spent, the feeling of being violated, just so someone can put up a stupid link that you wont click anyway. Thousands of terrabytes of info on all kinds of average people, billions of dollars, and for something as trivial as "We want to know what to sell to you?" It's pure idiocy and it makes people uneasy. I mean sure, wht you post, write, upload, etc is out there forever and you should accept that. And search histories may prove valuable to law enforcement if you commit a crime. But for corporations to watch everything I click is just as invasive as someone with binoculars watching me shower. Everywhere but the internet, if people record you, they need permission. And when these tiny bits of data add up, they can paint a picture of a person's life. It just isn't right.

Now, you say you have the option to just not use the internet. Okay. you also have the option to not pay high gas prices by not driving, which to many means not going to work. And you can also avoid utility bills by living in a cave. You can avoid telemarketers by not having a phone. But those solutions are impractical. So we do put up with the pain at the pump, and we do pay our bills to have a house or apartment. And we do get those annoying calls. We complain and grumble, and sometimes just need an ear to bend about it. Someone to comiserate with. To fantasize wtih about how nice it would be if we really could do something to change it.

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