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Paul Hexem
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Noted.

 

As you felt the need to place me in the same category as others who disrespected you, I apologize for coming off that way.  Never was that my intention nor would I personally attack anyone.  I simply chose to stand up for what I love to do here, in the aftermath of someone's negative perspective of such.

 

Again, the advertisements are unsightly, but this is only secondary as to what bothers me most.

I am concerned about another "MERCHANTS" advertisements on my Marketplace Store page.  Obviously the real life advertisement will not impact virtual sales (but for the person(s) who see something of interest and temporarily leave the site for more info).

According to LL's note to us:  they anticipate making these advertisements available to creators to utilize.  Jills cuddle poses are now being advertised on the top and side of Pete's animations store.  How will this effect Pete's sales?

 

Perhaps I am the only one concerned over this but there are enough consumers in Secondlife for the merchants to share.  Why should we be redirecting those that happen to come upon our shops to someone else?


I am hoping, they choose not to persue that.  We pay 3500L (avg) per product we advertise, in the hopes of someone new seeing our items.  Maybe they can just increase that pricing to cover what cost they are lacking and trying to supplement with this new idea.

You are right, the advertisements do not effect us- but when they make them avaialble for creators to purchase - it will.

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

I got negative last night (after several days of remaining quite pleasant in any post I made) when someone like you (not you, but someone like you) called me a pimp, then a few hours later someone called me a whore...........all because I'm taking a realistic view of LL's decision to put targeted ads on Marketplace.  I guess you came late to the thread.

I think some of this thread sounds more heated than the participants actually are, but let's not get carried away, by your own admission you said:

"I've been call a pimp and whore so far in this thread (not by name but by the context of some of the comments)."

The statements weren't directed at you specifically. I don't think anyone on either side has or would resort to name calling against any individual. Most of us respect the boundaries of the forum.

None of us are victims here, especially when all sides are being blunt.

 

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Then that is the time to complain.......that would be a legitimate complaint.  I have no dog in that fight and you would not see me post in any thread concerning that if that does, in fact, ever come to happen on Marketplace (well, I might jump in but I would not be in defense of LL nor would I excuse LL should that happen......and, yeah I might even get a little negative since I do get "passionate" in such matters).  However, I really don't think LL will go that route...........mostly because the merchants will never pay what it would cost them for such advertising (30 lindens was too much for them in search years ago and that's about 15 cents USD).  You have to remember LL says a lot of things.....it's like they think out loud.  Sometimes way too much too.

Okay, so I'm going to apologize for coming off like I did to you.  I wasn't PO'd at you but at a couple others (the ones who called me a pimp and a whore).  I am open minded enough to know a couple bad apples are not an indication of the crop.  It's not that I don't respect merchants.............I do.  But only merchants who act like merchants and not whiny brats playing at being a merchant.  And those "creators" who never fail to remind me that they are the "backbone" of SL drive me insane........that is a total crock of you know what.  The creators who create because they love to create whatever it is they create are the backbone..........those with the sign on their forehead "I'm a creator.  Love me" are the one that put a sour taste in my mouth.  Sorry I lumped you into those two groups and went off on you.

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

And those "creators" who never fail to remind me that they are the "backbone" of SL drive me insane........that is a total crock of you know what.  The creators who create because they love to create whatever it is they create are the backbone..........those with the sign on their forehead "I'm a creator.  Love me" are the one that put a sour taste in my mouth.  Sorry I lumped you into those two groups and went off on you.

Context:

"And to some of us merchants, this IS RL business, we're not playing, we're investing in a feel-good business and we enjoy what we do and the people that buy our goods. THAT's why I'm here and why I continue to try to offer feedback to LL so that they don't lose another 13% of regions next year and thus affect my livelihood, the livelihood of others, and of customers and consumers like you."

 

Followed by in the next post  ...

 

"You're twisting things around again. I'm not trying to tell you that merchants are better, or going into the hobbyist vs. professional or merchant vs. customer debate.

 

Everyone contributes to this world in some way, but yet here you are on a merchants forum consistently and repeatedly telling merchants that they need to just accept these ads, that it's LL that's doing them a favor, that feedback you don't agree with is whining, etc."

My words are screaming out in pain at the abuse. Again, there are no victims here.

Perhaps you can let us lowly merchant whiners get back to discussing advertising in the context of being a merchant though? Because we generally don't get this contentious in our discussions here. It takes a bit of provocation to do that.

At least not since the Dart and Darrius show and since then we've developed a meaningful bromance. Even Toy doesn't do the red letter edition much these days.

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Peggy said:

"I said IF YOU GOOD it's easy.  If you are mediocre it can be hard and if you are really amateurish it will be almost impossible.  So you studied hard in school.......guess what, so did I.  So you cried in frustration.........so did I.  The end result is that I learned what I wanted to learn and I got good at what I wanted to do.......and IT IS NOW EASY.  That's the way life is  You can try to impress me with your hard work.........but I know it's little more than play.  If you are still, after learning your skill (whatever it is you do), working hard, then you are not very good at what you do."

~~~

Peggy I've had enough of your denigration of merchants. It's obvious what your motivation is - you were never able to earn money here and are jealous of those who can - you post on the forum to vent your frustration at merchants, tearing them down in numerous ways.

The reason you failed is that you don't understand what a successful merchant does in SL - you expect it to be easy once you're learned the software. If you are functioning as an artist it gets more difficult..not easier. It requires innovation..seeing things in new ways..and whenever you challenge yourself to do that you have to let go of old patterns, old ways of seeing things...it's always difficult to get out of the safe groove and tear your head apart.

It's not easy..it's not 'playing' - it's very hard work though there are those times when one gets into the 'flow'thank goddess. Add to that all the packaging and marketing required to sell things here and it's even more difficult - both the creative and rote aspects. Why do I do it? I love to create, and I love to earn money creating, and I'm willing to deal with the stress.

This notion in society of it being so fun and easy for the artist is often why many feel they shouldn't be paid for their work. I've even had people approach me in SL wanting to pay me less because 'you're an artist, it's easy for you, and it won't take you much time'. No...it's very hard for me..that's why I'm an artist.

I often scan the forums, have found a lot of useful information doing so, but I rarely chime in unless I see something abusive - you are being abusive Peggy and need to shut up about things you know nothing about.

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Regarding these ads, in recent years LL's failure has been to try and be like everything else as opposed to being innovative - this more than anything else will cause the downfall of a business.
These ad feeds are annoying and people don't like them - how can this be good for business? Many people have ad blockers, and those who don't find their browsing lagged out. When I allowed the ads I'd even crash sometimes on the SL website, and there's the constant message of unsafe content that I need to allow, making it seem like a place where some harm might occur (and my security is set at about medium).
The ads that move around and distract attention are even more annoying. Yes they do increase brand awareness - I look at them and make a note never to shop there.

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

Shame on you for taking me for granted.....playing me for an idiot.  I said
IF YOU GOOD
it's easy.  If you are mediocre it can be hard and if you are really amateurish it will be almost impossible.  So you studied hard in school.......guess what, so did I.  So you cried in frustration.........so did I.  The end result is that I learned what I wanted to learn and I got good at what I wanted to do.......and
IT IS NOW EASY
.  That's the way life is  You can try to impress me with your
hard work
.........but I know it's little more than play.  If you are still, after learning your skill (whatever it is you do), working hard, then you are not very good at what you do. 

Get offended all you want and tell me I'm shameful...........you're still not getting the respect you seem I owe you.  I respect people who are honest with me.  You are not being honest.  You're playing some game to make yourself feel important.  You are no more important than I am (or that brand new SL resident wondering what the heck I'm talking about). 

You know. of course, I have some serious doubts about you being good enough to "put food on your table".  Creators that good don't **bleep** about ads on a platform that they know they are not paying anything near what they are getting back from it.  They're too busy creating..........and having fun.  Ads on Marketplace are the least of their concerns........it's that next creation that is stirring around in their head that concerns them.

Untrue....I pay my mortgage and then some with my SL money these days...and the ads are not the least of my concerns. The least of my concerns is probably how the hair on my avatar looks. Everything directly related to my business...and I consider the ads to be directly related to my business, is my top priority. The ads affect my business in Sl because it allows SL to direct my customers to other websites, to make my MP store look like absolute horse poop with their intrusive and highly offensive ads and honestly...some of the ones that show I block when my kids walk by my screen. If I could put an ad blocker on my computer I would. But unfortunately due to what I do for a living I can't do that, and honestly there are some websites that I like the ads. Mostly because they are relevant to what I am there for and they aren't so huge and in your face. 

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

Then what are you bitching about?  Ads or the fact that I think ads are a fact of life and that the ads are a product of your Internet browsing? 

BTW.  Contextual marketing is search based (keyed off searches on the site you received the ad).  You wouldn't get a "see your mugshot" ad unless you searched for something related to jail, crime, mugshots, or, maybe Lindsey Lohan.......on Marketplace.  You would see ads along those lines if you, perhaps, searched Lindsey Lohan.  The ads are behavioral............not contextual.  Clean up your Internet browsing and get better ads.

Take a chance.......fire up Google and search behavioral marketing.  Then search contextual marketing.  Read a little (the wikis are good starting points).  You might learn to tell what type of ad you are getting.

I run a website outside of SL and I serve Google Adsense ads on my own website so I was able to go into my acocunt and read through a lot of this. These are 3 ways google determines which ads to show on a website...user profile and history is one way, but so is the website content. So again...just because you see an ad does not mean you can simply visit better websites to get away from the smut ads. Stop giving out incorrect information please. Because in the case of contextual marketing it is based on the website the ads display on and not by your preferences.

Instead of looking up basic terminology of contextual marketing for the world, look it up from how Google determines it. Google does not consider a users information at all in contextual ad placement. It's based on keywords placed on the site and content within it.

Direct copy and paste form Google's website:

Contextual targeting

Our technology uses such factors as keyword analysis, word frequency, font size, and the overall link structure of the web, in order to determine what a webpage is about and precisely match Google ads to each page.

*I actually asked a friend of mine who works at Google about the font size...it's not really the font size it's that they look for headers, and larger font sizes usually indictate a more appropriate topic for the page, so they look for large font sizes for info as to what to display.

What you are describing is:

Interest-based advertising

Interest-based advertising enables advertisers to reach users based on their interests and demographics (e.g. 'sports enthusiasts'), and allows them to show ads based on a user's previous interactions with them, such as visits to advertiser websites. To complement interest-based advertising, the Ads Preferences Manager lets users view and edit their interest categories.

And the third way is:

Placement targeting

With placement targeting, advertisers choose specific ad placements, or subsections of publisher websites, on which to run their ads. Ads that are placement-targeted may not be precisely related to the content of a page, but are hand-picked by advertisers who've determined a match between what your users are interested in and what they have to offer.

In this last option, these are hand picked by the website showing the ad. So that means if SL wanted to, they could specifically CHOOSE to display those smut banners. Meaning you would have no control at all again, just like contextual marketing.

So to everyone saying it's all based on your cookies and browsing history, wisen up a bit and stop giving bad advice, because it is not the end all be all of the banners. Like I said before I have NEVER searched for or visited a website with smut, porn, criminal info, etc. I'm just not that kind of person, and nobody else has access to my computer. The ads I am getting are either from contextual content or from Placement targeting...not because of my browsing habits.

 

*By the way....I spent the weekend on my home computer browsing the marketplace...and got the exact same ads that I see while I am at work. I do a lot more web surfing at home obviously, yet no ads changed. I saw the same basic few.

 

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True about the innovation I think, although speaking of that ... attempts at innovation has been focused on the new products rather than here. They need to bring those new hires working on those products "back home" ... it looks like they're possibly not taking off. Get the innovation back where it belongs.

Not suprisingly they're not putting ads on the Versu, Patterns, Dio or Creatorverse sites. Go figure.

Perhaps they should though, because they try to get these sites media exposure. Even if any of those products don't make it, they will have earned some revenue from traffic boosts when sites like Forbes link to them.

Also not suprising is that neither do ads shown up on lindenlab.com ... if they could answer why they don't put them on their corporate site, perhaps they'll understand why some don't like them here.

 

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Good categorical breakdown of the Google advertising. Surely that's helpful about now.

More than we ever wanted to know about the Google advertising I think, although it's useful for anyone that runs a website. Perhaps they should look at some of the SL bloggers and SL resident websites that do contain ads and how they're generally better integrated.

Beyond the ad content they just destroy the overall marketplace design. Even integrating them into an outer "frame" and blending it with the site would be a huge improvement.

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

Good categorical breakdown of the Google advertising. Surely that's helpful about now.

More than we ever wanted to know about the Google advertising I think, although it's useful for anyone that runs a website. Perhaps they should look at some of the SL bloggers and SL resident websites that do contain ads and how they're generally better integrated.

Beyond the ad content they just destroy the overall marketplace design. Even integrating them into an outer "frame" and blending it with the site would be a huge improvement.

Dart...I think that is exactly why I don't like them, well aside from the smut. The layout is just sort of a "let's stick this here" with no rhyme or reason. They are not integrated into the site fluidly, they are just stuck on the outside. This is how they are put into my own website, they are small unintrusive and blend right into my website design and are 100% based on the content of the website. I think most of us probably wouldn't mind so much if the ads were based on what we are here to do and if they were a bit smaller and integrated better into the site.

g4cbanners.jpg

 

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Deja Letov wrote:

The ads are getting really stupid too. Today I logged in and at the top of my screen were 4 busty chicks, one apparently had no bra on and her top was wide open but the picture was conveniently cut off right above the **bleep**...with the message "We don't like Young Men! We want you!" So they are trying to say I'm old...and male? The chick with the giant basketballs on her chest was kinda hot I guess, if you're into girls. They could at least make an attempt to tailor them to a video game genre, or business, or let SL merchants  advertise or something. but really...SL peddling smut and what I'm assuming is a adult porn website? Really SL?

http://www.businessinsider.com/gavin-barwell-humiliated-by-adsense-2013-3

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Jacob Cagney wrote:


Deja Letov wrote:

The ads are getting really stupid too. Today I logged in and at the top of my screen were 4 busty chicks, one apparently had no bra on and her top was wide open but the picture was conveniently cut off right above the **bleep**...with the message "We don't like Young Men! We want you!" So they are trying to say I'm old...and male? The chick with the giant basketballs on her chest was kinda hot I guess, if you're into girls. They could at least make an attempt to tailor them to a video game genre, or business, or let SL merchants  advertise or something. but really...SL peddling smut and what I'm assuming is a adult porn website? Really SL?


Ya we've already been over that in previous posts in this thread...might wanna go read before posting. It's not based solely on your past browsing history or search. It is also based on the content of the website...which that article even points out. I researched that because I've never gone to a website even remotely related to that and nobody else has access to my computer. Others were complaining about the same thing. My guess is due to all the smut that's included in adult products on the marketplace.

 

 

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Well, first let me give a brief partial interpretation of what LL has done to advertising since acquiring the marketplace from a 3rd party. The process of taking previously effective and simple methods of advertising and making them needlessly complex and less effective as in:

Taking up space on top of paid ads on the home page with a useless but pretty block. Currently telling people you can shop for new decor this spring. I think most shoppers can figure this one out, or could from a short one line blip, but we're telling them the same thing in at least 3 different sections (top, lower right and lower left on the inner pages).

Taking up space in the lower right on home page and lower left on inner pages with LL ads for such things as decorating your home, trying to send users off to Facebook rather than buying something and advertising LL themed sims, which don't sell well, are only marginally profitable to LL and compete directly with merchants.

Mutant carousel ad blocks on home and category pages which only shows the first paid 3 ads, rather than an older SLX display of 12 or 16 ads.

Home page ads used to dominate well ... the home page.

Overselling advertising and replacing guaranteed exposure with time periods.

Coming up next ... much more expensive advertising to compete in the same space as current paid advertising, also competing with 3rd party advertising, LL's own SL advertising and possibly other LL products.

All that to say your design is much more clean and appealing and that if they got rid of some of the useless junk they could squeeze the new ads of desperation quite nicely into the current design without having it outside floating in space.

I'm not quite sure that they realize that you can't milk 20 gallons from a 10 gallon udder and it distresses the cow when you try, though.

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I also did a little experiment. As I had mentioned before this particular computer I am on during the day is at work. Our surfing of the internet is minimal but when I do, it's mainly to the second life website and IT related websites plus our own company website. That's it. No dating websites, no criminal activity pages, no smut, etc. Yet I was still seeing these ads. Contextual marketing is my guess as to why based on the content of the website of SL. But yesterday before I left work, I visited a few camera websites...namely bhphoto and Amazon.com searching for a new camera. Well lo and behold...this morning when I logged into the SL website I got an ad for camera down the right side. This is the first time I've seen anything related to things I've searched for. So my theory is this...They may use your browsing and search history to display ads. They may also use contextual marketing based on the website contact to display ads. They may also us arbitrary designation of certain ads. But I'm also wondering if there isn't just a general "overflow" of ads that are used when a website first starts using the ads. For people who don't have a lot of browsing history and it's hard to find appropriate content ads to display, perhaps there is just a overflow of ads to choose from that have nothign to do with your own browing history or even the content of the website. Just a thought, who knows, but it makes me wonder. I'm still seeing those other ads mixed in, but it's nice to see an ad that actually feels somewhat appropriate to my own interests.

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Ive started to notice that the contextual marketing has picked up significantly, especially in the marketplace. Things that I pull up on the marketplace, even in my own store are showing similar or related products in the ads. it's rather strange though since the ads for real items, w hile the marketplace is for virutal items. In fact, it seems rather pointless because most likely, if I am looking at a kitchen work center in SL, it certainly doesn't mean I'm looking to remodel my kitchen in the real world. Anyway thought I'd share this screenshot. Maybe it just took time for google to index more of SL's content, who knows, but a lot of the ads I am seeing today relate to what I am looking at in the marketplace.

kitchenads.jpg

 

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They do seem to be more varied and more contextual now. Some of them have been cleaned up. The virtual goods to RL goods bit seems to be a stretch though.

I'd like to request a review system for the ads though.

My russian bride just arrived today and while she's missing a few parts we're firmly committed to each other. 5 stars!

I'd forgotten all about my arrest in Cleveland 10 years ago. But thanks to the statute of limitations, I can put that behind me now. Thanks to LL for the closure. 5 stars!

This new cream really does make you feel like a new person. I've given up my workboots and jeans for a silk camisole and yoga pants. I've given this one 3 stars but only because of the rash.

While searching for tip jars, I found an ad to become a RL escort. Thanks to LL, I've given up being a merchant to follow my new dream as a felony free transgender with great skin. I'm now a professional on craigslist making 3 times what I earned on the marketplace! Or would be if not for the alimony that I have to pay my ex-russian bride who left me as soon as she became a U.S. citizen. 3 stars.

Can't wait to see how contextual relates to forum posts for the new ads here.

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Right on cue, an ad from this page. Obviously this could be me in workboots and jeans "before" using the cream. And yes the ex-russian bride got the motorcycle too.

The only thing she left was a silk camisole and a pair of yoga pants, which probably contributed to my change of life.

I'm beginning to worry about the effects of 3rd party advertising on merchant-kind.

myAd.jpg

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Dartagan Shepherd wrote:

<snip>

And yes the ex-russian bride got the motorcycle too.


Shortly after I read your post yesterday about the *ahem* "Russian Bride" I checked my email.  I about fell over when I saw the title of one of the emails in my spam folder: "Russian Bride for You."

Ok, is this ad deal now linking people together ie. you post something about a Russian Bride and the people who then read your post are targeted for those key words.  Arrrggghhhh, they're EVERYWHERE!!!!

On a sidenote, I briefly dated a guy RL who married a "Russian Bride."  The woman then left him 6 months later.  True story.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't know if you guys have seen this or not, but I guess technically us merchants can now advertise on the SL website. Granted it's through Google ads...but apparently if you don't want to wait for them to put that option in, you can just go submit a google ad and peddle your wares the same way the other ads are. I wonder how succesful these are.

slgooglead.jpg

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