Privacy and TOS

[Perrie Juran]

---

Staralien wrote:

"..........this is a perfect example of people misunderstanding or missing the point of something."

 

---

I don't think it was just a matter of people missing the point although we may have read Nudity/Sex into your original post.

The point did get discussed as well as possible inter-related issues.  So the topic got thorough coverage.

In addition to this I still encounter a lot of rentals on "M" land that do not have privacy enabled.  Personally, it is not an issue for me, nor do I consider it my job to police anyones compliance on this.  I only bring it up as a matter of courtesy.  I am constantly amazed at the number of Residents and even Land Lords who are still not aware of the Privacy settings and the corresponding rules.

Also, there were very recent discussions about Nudity on "G" SIM's and Privacy in dressing rooms so the topic in general was still very fresh in my mind and posssibly others here.

 

[Malanya]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Staralien wrote:

"..........this is a perfect example of people misunderstanding or missing the point of something."

 

---

I don't think it was just a matter of people missing the point although we may have read Nudity/Sex into your original post.

The point did get discussed as well as possible inter-related issues.  So the topic got thorough coverage.

In addition to this I still encounter a lot of rentals on "M" land that do not have privacy enabled.  Personally, it is not an issue for me, nor do I consider it my job to police anyones compliance on this.  I only bring it up as a matter of courtesy.  I am constantly amazed at the number of Residents and even Land Lords who are still not aware of the Privacy settings and the corresponding rules.

Also, there were very recent discussions about Nudity on "G" SIM's and Privacy in dressing rooms so the topic in general was still very fresh in my mind and posssibly others here.

 

---

I like you don't try and police sims and find who who complies and who doesn't, I reponded to a post that asked an important question. Like you said this post had inter-related issues and it had to do with another renter being able to even cam in to take a picture of the person in th OP in question if it was an offense to AR. My response to another poster about the rating of the sim. Having done rentals I understand how the TOS would imply in this situation and it was important to know the land rating and if there were any sex poses on M land without hiding avatars on each parcel enabled. Point being the person that took the pictures and anyone else for that matter can AR the land group owner for open enrollment and not having privacy enabled where the sex poses are for each renter. There are too many people out there who just look for a reason to AR someone, even if it's an oversight. Your post summed up exactly what I tried to say in my response to the other poster but apparently I may not have come accross as well as you did.

[Malanya]

---

Staralien wrote:

Drake this is a perfect example of people misunderstanding or missing the point of something. I said nothing about people having sex or using adult things. I said they had an intimate moment in a

PG 

hot tub (I clarified it was PG in a later post and were cuddling, and should have initially) that was photographed by someone else because they broke my rule of not camming into other's apts, and then sent the photos onto a third party.

What I needed to know is if this is against TOS,

taking photos of avatars without their permision and sharing them with others.

Clearly my definition of intamacy is different from other's. For me, if I am cuddling with someone, that is intamacy. Opening yourself up to another person completely and sharing who you are at your core being is intamacy to me. For others, it can only mean sex.

I didn't ask how to make things more private for myself or for tenants. And yet folks had to tell me how to do that. It should not matter what rating the land has or if the group is opened or closed or how thick my walls are to answer my question:

Did the woman go against TOS by taking the photos of people who did not know she took them and send them to someone else. (

On a side note and what should be obvious, she did so in an effort to cause drama.)

Since folks felt the need to know what rating the land was and how easy it is to join my group, which had nothing to do with the actual situation, I am now eqipped with knowledge I didn't know, so I suppose that is a blessing. Since I pay someone else other than LL for the land, and it is only part of the sim, I don't have the power to change the rating. I have checked numerous other rental places since this posting and have found most are on Moderate land, most have at least sex beds, and most have open group. What they are doing doesn't excuse myself from being in compliance, so to be in compliance, I will change the group so that people can only be invited to the group upon rental. The only adult items I provide in the rentals are adult beds (that are pretty tame compared to others) and now the new baths I recently installed. I don't advertise these things. Everything is "hidden" behind walls. I have made far more rules than most rental places to keep things as private as possible, minimize grieving, and make things as comfortable as possible for everyone. I have made a rule and posted signs of not having child avatars on the property in an effort to be in compliance with the rule of child avatars not being in proximaty of any adult items. Overall, I think I have managed to create a safe, peaceful, and comfortable environment. And I take care of my tenants.

I resolved this whole issue by sending a warning notice to the guest that broke the rule and the tenant she was visiting. The tenant that was violated has been moved way up in the sky to get them as far away as possible from each other. I talked to both tenants and there is no animosity between them, and the guest at this time, appears to be complying. I knew that I would have to handle this situation for the most part myself. I just wanted to know that if the situation were to escalate and my solutions didn't work, were the actions by the guest a violation against TOS.

To everyone that has replied to this thread: Thank you!

---

Unfortuantely it's not up to you about what you feel is intimacy or not, it's up to LL and the TOS regarding what can and can't be done on Mature or Adult rated land. I think people were trying to be informative and the information was related to your OP. The woman DID go against the TOS for taking photos, but speaking for myself, the incident could not have happened if you had complied with the TOS for your rentals on your land. I empathize with your situation, I am sure it's hard to have apartments (not sure how they are stacked) and parcel off your tenants. I don't feel anyone missed the point of your question, they guest broke your rule and you broke the land rating rule, it all ties together.

I sincerely hope your renters and guests follow your rules and you don't run into this again.

spelling

[Perrie Juran]

---

Malanya wrote:

---

---

The woman DID go against the TOS for taking photos,

I sincerely hope your renters and guests follow your rules and you don't run into this again.

 

---

Wow, I hate to back track on this again. 

First off, the Rental Agreement / Rules for Guests would be between Residents and has nothing to do with the TOS as long as it complies with the TOS.

Second, what violation of the TOS?  For there to have been a violation of the TOS, she would have had to comply with Snapshots and Machinima Policy.

 

(a) Land Owner Consent for Snapshots and Machinima

If you wish to take a snapshot or capture machinima of content on another Resident’s land, then:

For Snapshots, check whether the covenant for the land prohibits snapshots. If it does, then you need special permission from the land owner to take the snapshot. If it allows snapshots or doesn’t address them, then you do not need special permission from the land owner as long as you comply with any terms that may be in the covenant.

 

The no snapshot rule would need to be explicitly stated in the Covenant.

Maybe LL would accept that it was in rules given to a resident, but the policy stated above is very clear.

Outside of this I can snap pictures to my hearts content of anyone and anything in any situation to my hearts content in SL.

 

eta grammar

[Malanya]

No need to backtrack. I am not referring about the covenant rules or machimina. You can post anything you want outside of SL chat logs, you can't use snapshots and machimina to harass another resident by passing it around for whatever reason if it in any way causes the resident to feel privacy of their SL or RL has been affected. I am not even saying that an AR would be acted upon, no one has control over how LL decides what reports are serious for involvement. If you visit the site http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.phpyou will see that there is an umbrella for which harassment falls under, not just snapshots and Machimina area and it's not just referring to RL information. Maybe if you read between the lines you can see that the TOS and CS is vague and can be taken on an individual basis, that is in place that way for a reason.

 

Harassment

Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life, harassment can take many forms. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment.

 

Disclosure

Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile -- is not allowed.  Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.

 

8.2 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights.

(v) Post, display or transmit Content that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or invades another person's privacy;

[Perrie Juran]

---

Malanya wrote:

No need to backtrack. I am not referring about the covenant rules or machimina. You can post anything you want outside of SL chat logs, you can't use snapshots and machimina to harass another resident by passing it around for whatever reason if it in any way causes the resident to feel privacy of their SL or RL has been affected. I am not even saying that an AR would be acted upon, no one has control over how LL decides what reports are serious for involvement. If you visit the site

http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php

you will see that there is an umbrella for which harassment falls under, not just snapshots and Machimina area and it's not just referring to RL information. Maybe if you read between the lines you can see that the TOS and CS is vague and can be taken on an individual basis, that is in place that way for a reason.

 

Harassment

Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life,

harassment can take many forms

. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment.

 

Disclosure

Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location

beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile -- is not allowed.

  Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.

 

8.2 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal,

harassing or violates any person's rights.

(v)

Post, display or transmit Content

that is harmful, threatening

or harassing

, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading,

or invades another person's privacy

;

---

I don't see any vagueness there. 

The only vagueness I hear about is when people try to read into that things that it does not say.

At best you might be able to fit it under "invades another persons privacy," but if the pricay settings were not enabled then it still was a public act.

[Malanya]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Malanya wrote:

No need to backtrack. I am not referring about the covenant rules or machimina. You can post anything you want outside of SL chat logs, you can't use snapshots and machimina to harass another resident by passing it around for whatever reason if it in any way causes the resident to feel privacy of their SL or RL has been affected. I am not even saying that an AR would be acted upon, no one has control over how LL decides what reports are serious for involvement. If you visit the site

http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php

you will see that there is an umbrella for which harassment falls under, not just snapshots and Machimina area and it's not just referring to RL information. Maybe if you read between the lines you can see that the TOS and CS is vague and can be taken on an individual basis, that is in place that way for a reason.

 

Harassment

Given the myriad capabilities of Second Life,

harassment can take many forms

. Communicating or behaving in a manner which is offensively coarse, intimidating or threatening, constitutes unwelcome sexual advances or requests for sexual favors, or is otherwise likely to cause annoyance or alarm is Harassment.

 

Disclosure

Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location

beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile -- is not allowed.

  Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.

 

8.2 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal,

harassing or violates any person's rights.

(v)

Post, display or transmit Content

that is harmful, threatening

or harassing

, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading,

or invades another person's privacy

;

---

I don't see any vagueness there. 

The only vagueness I hear about is when people try to read into that things that it does not say.

At best you might be able to fit it under "invades another persons privacy," but if the pricay settings were not enabled then it still was a public act.

---

Yep and you have your idea of what it means and I have mine. Privacy enabled or not, harassing someone can be done anywhere. Thanks for your reply.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

where does it say you cant have sex in your own home?  the "adult" things ae not promoted anywhere. it isn't a club, its an apartment complex. there are signs everywhere saying no child avs.

please show me the ToS violation. Post the full section please, not snippets.

[Malanya]

Have you read the entire thread? There are posts that have links that explain what you need to follow on Mature and Adult rated land and privacy (including open enrollment for groups if Adult content is on M land) I am not going to post "snippets" I am not doing your legwork for reading the thread either so you can get your answers as the links have been posted already. I think saying "you can't have sex in your own home" is something you read... where on this thread? Have you been a land baron in SL before? When you are a landlord you have responsibility to LL and their rules and of course to your tenants.

p.s why don't you ask the same question to the others that posted the same land rating and group info as I did

[Drake1 Nightfire]

all of the links refer to clubs and businesses. I found this on the official adult content page...

"The maturity ratings distinguish between publicly-promoted adult content, required to be on Adult regions, and non-public adult content, such as private homes with a sex bed, that can be located on Moderate land.

Adult activities cannot be advertised or publicly promoted on Moderate land. Such activity must occur privately, behind closed doors on Moderate land (see below), and is forbidden on General land. These restrictions apply regardless of whether the parcel has hidden avatars. "

so apparently, private homes can have sex beds on moderate land. which goes against everything said in this thread.

[Malanya]

Whatever you choose to believe. Whether it's a club or rental on M land hiding avatars applies if there are any objects with sex poses. Having done rentals for as long as I did on M land I am clear on the rules. You can put anything you want in the covenant and often it states rules LL has in place, it's not the same as adhereing to the rules LL puts out for this. I still find it odd that you replied to me and no one else that said the exact same things as I did. I have a good guess as to why. Have a nice day/evening

[Drake1 Nightfire]

you happened to be the last person on the thread... nothing sinister here. no one is out to get you.

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

all of the links refer to clubs and businesses. I found this on the official adult content page...

"The maturity ratings distinguish between publicly-promoted adult content, required to be on

Adult

 regions, and non-public adult content, such as private homes with a sex bed, that can be located on 

Moderate

 land.

Adult activities cannot be advertised or publicly promoted on 

Moderate

 land. Such activity must occur privately, behind closed doors on 

Moderate

 land (see below), and is forbidden on 

General

land. These restrictions apply regardless of whether the parcel has hidden avatars. "

so apparently, private homes can have sex beds on moderate land. which goes against everything said in this thread.

---

I believe the section in contention here is this:

 

What does "behind closed doors" mean?

Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means:

• Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel.
  If it is group-access only, the group must not be freely open to join.
• Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel.
• Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers.

And more specifically, the part I emboldened... which is exactly what's being said in this thread.  If a landlord has their land group set to open enrollment, then, by definition, the parcels cannot be considered private.  Therefore, any sexual activity on these otherwise private parcels would be considered adult and would not be allowed on Moderate land.

What I don't get is why any landlord, or anyone for that matter, would have their land group set to open enrollment.

...Dres

ETA: It is all a bit confusing, I must say.  I mean, if you can only partake in adult activity on parcels that "Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel", then wouldn't that mean that if you wanted to have sex inside your own home on Moderate land, you'd have to block everyone that's not in your group from entering your parcel... even if you own it outright?  Seems a bit excessive.

[Malanya]

LOL, ok I know no one is out to get me, but I also know how certain people post to others... see if you read the thread you would have asked the FIRST person that said what I did and they said it in more detail. This is how forums work, when someone has been posting a long time they post to NEWER posters differently as the do other forumites that have been here longer. Do I care? No, just an observation I thought made me smile. I think I will leave it at that and again, enjoy your day/evening!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

If you set the land to group access only and have the group be invite only.. how do you ever get tenants? they would have to be asked to join the group to look at the apartments in order to decide if they want to rent one.. That seems like a lot of work to find a place to call home.

i don't understand what all the fuss is about. If kids under 18 cant see into M or A sims and there are no child avs allowed, what does it matter?

[Malanya]

It is confusing, thus my comment about certain things in the TOS or CS being vague, people will read it how they perceive it when it is not clear and to the point. I have no idea why a land owner would want open enrollment just for rezzing rights alone, that just anyone could do it and it would be hard to dismiss the people that have joined if they are not renting or to see if they are a friend/partner/family of the renter. I would always suggest ejecting a person who no longer is renting from the group as it helps cut down on any possible future problems. As I stated I felt empathetic towards the OP as I know being a lnadlord has it's trials. I apparently didn't come across as I wanted to trying to point out what i thought was helpful. Renting 4 sims, land and sky lots with I can't count how many renters at a time taught me a lot.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

i actually read the whole thread first... the reply button on the left is supposed to reply to the OP... sometimes it doesnt work. 

 

[Malanya]

A successful rental business depends on how much and the way you advertise, word of mouth from giving superior customer service and offer things unique to renting at your land. When they pay the rent box (I can only speak for Hippo boxes) you get an IM that you have a renter. I would come on and send a group invite within a half hour or less I was able to because of my profession. Other rent boxes after you pay give you a group invite in local chat usually along with the rules the landowner has set. I have never seen a land group with open enrollment that I have come across, not saying they are not out there, I would think they are few and far between.

[Malanya]

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

i actually read the whole thread first... the reply button on the left is supposed to reply to the OP... sometimes it doesnt work. 

 

---

understood, I take back my comment.

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

If you set the land to group access only and have the group be invite only.. how do you ever get tenants? they would have to be asked to join the group to look at the apartments in order to decide if they want to rent one.. That seems like a lot of work to find a place to call home.

i don't understand what all the fuss is about. If kids under 18 cant see into M or A sims and there are no child avs allowed, what does it matter?

---

Hell if I know... I just do what I want and use common sense.  I'd like to think that people would have better things to do than worry about what their fellow SLers are doing in the privacy of their own homes.  But, I'm sure, as I speak there's someone out there just looking for an opportunity to AR someone for screwing a skunk on their kitchen table.

...Dres

[161488303349]

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

  But, I'm sure, as I speak there's someone out there just looking for an opportunity to AR someone for screwing a skunk on their kitchen table.

 

---

I don't know what to say. well I do but I don't want to. I have visions scarred on my brains now

for life

jejejejejeje (:

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

16 wrote:

I don't know what to say. well I do but I don't want to. I have visions scarred on my brains now

for life

jejejejejeje (:

---

My work here is done. :matte-motes-silly:

...Dres

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Dresden Ceriano wrote: "What I don't get is why any landlord, or anyone for that matter, would have their land group set to open enrollment."

Selfservice Renting. Read the notecard, pay the rentalbox, join the group, start building.
No waiting for Group invites. If you need additional rights, IM the group officer for an upgrade.
That's for example how Ravenglass is handling this.

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

My thought was what would stop any fool from joining the group and rezzing whatever they want?  There has to be a better way... a bot maybe?  I have no idea.

...Dres

[161488303349]

---

Dresden Ceriano wrote:

My work here is done. :matte-motes-silly:

 

---

q; (: