Jump to content

Privacy and TOS


Staralien
 Share

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 3615 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts

The situation:

You are in your apartment sharing an intimate moment with a friend and someone cams into your apartment and takes photos of you and then sends them to a third party.

One of the photos also had the radar screen up, showing other people that were on the sim at the time, thus violating their privacy as well, in my opinion.

I know it is against TOS to share other people's RL photos, but what about something like this?

For landowners, how would you handle something like this for your tenant?

This is the first time I have had to deal with something like this. I sent a warning notice to the guest and the tenant she was visiting. Sad thing is, he was not even online at the time. In any case, this behavior is against my rules and policies for tenants and their guests: respect the privacy of other tenants and no camming into other people's homes.

Thanks for any advice and helpful info.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 60
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

You are not guaranteed privacy of your inworld activities.  Consider, you're online with a global server network.  Assume, if someone can reach you, you WILL be reached. (^_^)

The only way to be sure of privacy is to be on a sim with no neighbouring sims, no public access, and only you and your partner(s) white listed for entry.  Otherwise, consider any and all of your activities to be public to the world. (^_^)

Finally, this is what is described as a "Resident Dispute", which Linden Lab will not participate in according to the TOS. (^_^)

So, you're pretty much S-O-L at this point and take this as a learning opportunity to share your intimate moments in a more concealed fashion. (^_^)y

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ToS primarily deals with privacy issues as they deal with RL information and sharing account information, plus a bit of intellectual property. Taking a picture of someone else's avatar inworld, with or without permission, does not violate the ToS, or the Community Guidelines. LL will not interfere.

You, however, as the landlord, can do one of several things, including, but not limited to:

1) You can crack down on allowing "intimate moments" at ground level. It's harder to cam into a skybox rezzed at 2000-3000 feet. However, that kind of punishes your tenants instead of the camera pervs. Alternatively, you can advise them to do this but not require it. Just let them know that if they don't, and someone cams in, there's little you can do.

2) If you know who the cammer was, you can ban him, or her, from your land. Won't necessarily stop others from doing the same thing, but it'll keep that person out.

3) You can set the land, or advise your tenant to set the land, to private, so that no one who is not on the parcel can see those who are.

4) You can make a clear rules notecard handed out to ANYONE entering the property for the first time and/or distributed to all of your tenants. Remove any guests who violate the policy and ban them. Insistitute a strike policy for tenants - either one offense and they're gone, or a three-strike system, or whatever you think is fair. If you find that it's the guest of a tenant doing something like this, IM the tenant privately, explain the situation, and remind them that they need to make sure their guests know and follow the rules.

Pretty much, however, most of this is all up to you to enforce your own rules and policies on your land. LL won't get involved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Staralien wrote:

The situation:

You are in your apartment sharing an intimate moment with a friend and someone cams into your apartment and takes photos of you and then sends them to a third party.

One of the photos also had the radar screen up, showing other people that were on the sim at the time, thus violating their privacy as well, in my opinion.

I know it is against TOS to share other people's RL photos, but what about something like this?

For landowners, how would you handle something like this for your tenant?

This is the first time I have had to deal with something like this. I sent a warning notice to the guest and the tenant she was visiting. Sad thing is, he was not even online at the time. In any case, this behavior is against my rules and policies for tenants and their guests: respect the privacy of other tenants and no camming into other people's homes.

Thanks for any advice and helpful info.

 

This will always be the problem with Apartments. 

It would be your Land Lords choice how to respond, but mainly the reply would be, this is just the way SL is.

BTW, if the Apartments are stacked ( a multi story building) and the LandLord allows sexual activity in them, the location would have to be rated Adult per the Adult content rules because parcel privacy would not work.

If the Apartments are side by side (not stacked), then parcel privacy needs to be enabled if this is not an Adult rated location.

Parcel privacy stops the kind of Camming you are describing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have the rules posted in each rental office and in the rental agreement when the apartment (or any of the other variety of homes I offer) is rented. The apartments are stacked, side by side for several stories up. Basically, I am trying to enforce respecting the privacy of others on the honor system. Clearly, not everyone has honor.

I realize there is really no such thing as privacy. Even a sky box can be cammed by someone flying by it (have had that issue with my sky boxes as well). I really wanted to know if it is against TOS to send nude photos of other people to third parties. Since our avatars represent us, I would think it would be a violation. If it is not, well I have no problem as a landlord enforcing my rules. I just wanted to know if I could expect any sort of back up from LL.

I think on my part, one warning is fair and after that, banning. I just hope I don't start getting drama from this person. I so hate drama and I just wish people would behave themselves and be decent to each other. But then, that is like wishing someone could literally give me the moon. At least we are given the tools to ban, mute, derender, or whatever. ;-)

Thanks for all replies. You all are awesome!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

when the apartments side by side then cut the land so each is on its own parcel. set parcel visibility off

+

with multilevel apartments (sky boxes same) on not much land then do bedroom parcels. like sitting rooms and patios can be on shared space. bedroom not. tenants told to do it in the bedroom if they want privacy

a way to do this multi-level is:

say you got a square land. put the bedroom parcels in a row on the side of the common area. build each level to fit. like block off the bedroom parcels that not belong to the level

if a tenant or guest then takes a photo of another tenant doing it then they had to do something deliberate to break out of their level. like sit into a walled off area. or even out into fresh air

if they do then can no-hassle boot them out straight away. the fact that they took the photo is proof they done a breakout to get it

+

edit add: just to make clear

you boot them for doing the sit breakout. that way you need not get into verbals with them about ToS and photos and all that

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Um, being on your own sim is not the only way to  be private any more.  I have a mainland home, and I have it set so that noone outside the parcel can see or hear whoever is inside the parcel.  Then, if I exclude public access to my parcel, I have pretty darn good privacy.  Yes, someone can see that I and whomever are there on radar, but that's about it.  The can look at my furniture, but not at me.

My house has been there for a while.  My previous security feature -- having damage enabled and a shotgun by the bed -- never really worked all that well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LL wouldn't stop you from banning someone for even something far less serious. It's your land, your covenant, your rules. LL gives you ful rights over eject, temporary ban, and permanent ban on your parcel, and that's the only thing you need from them. the rest is all in your hands.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Rhys Goode wrote:

My house has been there for a while.  My previous security feature -- having damage enabled and a shotgun by the bed -- never really worked all that well.

My usual practice with visiting neighbors I've not met yet is to stand well outside the property line and engage them in Chat before going further.

I've just made a mental note. If I ever come across your house and want to talk you'll know. That will be me way over there on land you don't own, behind the wall and shouting, "Ahoy the house!". :smileyhappy:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some infos:

You can cam around in a radius of 500m (more under some circumstances) - that includes the neighbour sim.
Walls, no matter how thick - are no obstacles.
Hiding your camera is no problem.

Using other viewers besides the Linden viewer gives more opportunities.
So there is no privacy in SL and you don't know if someone cam's on you.

If you really care if someone cams on you (I don't) - you need to activate parcel privacy AND use a security device that will kick out everyones ass off your parcel in a range of lets say +/- 1000m. And of course you need a parcel per apartment.

Oh - the TOS says something about privacy and pictures, but you only have proof if pictures are posted and I have my doubts that Lindens will care about anything that happens outside of SL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Oh - the TOS says something about privacy and pictures, but you only have proof if pictures are posted and I have my doubts that Lindens will care about anything that happens outside of SL.

True. But having "no photography" in the covenant would allow a scary-sounding "per ToS" phrasing of the rules. It's quite true that it doesn't really mean anything, but it may intimidate some.

This all got me thinking on a scripting tangent. It's impossible to know when somebody takes a picture, but it is very possible to know where somebody is looking, as long as they're wearing a script that monitors their cam. For certain kinds of sims, one could offer (via llAttachToAvatarTemp) a HUD that visitors must promptly wear and continue wearing or get booted from the sim. That would permit all sorts of fun RP stuff, too (alas, still no llTeleportAgent), and spank those whose eyes wander to private places.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The maturity rating is Moderate and really has no bearing on this. They were in a PG hot Tub cuddling. The whole point of this is the fact that the other tenant's guest violated MY policy and cammed into the resident's apartment and the proof is the photographs that were taken and then forwarded to a third party. The photos then made their way back to the people that were photographed. All this was in an attempt to cause drama.

In any case, the situation has been handled. I needed to know if these actions were the sort that can have an AR turned in. I did not intend to turn in an AR at this time as I felt a warning notice was appropriate for a first offense. But in the event the person doesn't comply and persists in this behavior, I will need to step it up in how I handle the violation. Now that I know that Linden Lab is unlikely to help in this matter, I know what measures I can actually take...which is basically I am on my own in handling the situation.

As for privacy in apartments, anyone with any sense should know there really is little if any privacy in Second Life. I am very explicit in my rules about conduct in the attempt to keep people from camming, and conducting themselves properly. There is really no way of knowing if someone is violating these rules unless they offer the proof themselves by taking photos and showing them to someone else, which was the case in this incident. Since I was presented with the proof, it was my responsibility as the land owner to handle the situation.

Thank you for everyone's input. It has been most helpful and I really appreciate being able to come here any time I need answers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Six Igaly wrote:

It is not that hard to cam through a wall, one meter or ten. Disable camera constraints will let you cam through them as if they were like 0.010 meter thick.

yes, but most people don't know that. Most people who cam into a place do so out of curiosity and maybe get an idea for furnishing their own place, it's casual.

If there's more effort involved, they won't do it.

If you really want to have nobody cam into your place, rent an entire sim or homested, put everything at ground level, place solid prims on top of it to the max altitude you can build, and then set land access to restricted to you only and don't ever invite anyone else there.

And for good measure add a security orb as well set to maximum range and autoban with no warning.

Of course you make no picks of the place in your profile, don't give anyone a landmark, and make sure it's not listed in search results. That way only people randomly hopping sims will even have a fraction of a second to see your rubbish before they're kicked out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The sim is Moderate and anyone can freely join the group. It is my understanding doing rentals in the past that if you have any objects with adult poses on a Moderate sim you had to parcel off each rental and make it so you could uncheck the "see and chat with other residents on this parcel" box in land settings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

seems to me that you handling this pretty good

like you making sure of your grounds before you decide how far you going to escalate it further. and knowing whatever you decide now is going to factor long term in the ongoing arrangements/relationship with your tenants and their guests

well done (:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:


Malanya wrote:

The sim is Moderate and anyone can freely join the group. It is my understanding doing rentals in the past that if you have any objects with adult poses on a Moderate sim you had to parcel off each rental and make it so you could uncheck the "see and chat with other residents on this parcel" box in land settings.

If you read the
What does "behind closed doors" mean?
 
topic in the LL adult content FAQ you'll see specifics I mentioned about groups.  I would think that groups anyone can freely join do not really restrict who has access.


Yes I agree with you, TOS states if there is adulyt activity the group can not have open enrollment, but this land group does. The page you directed me to also states that if there are any sex pose balls the avatars are to be hidden if on Mature land. My point in the OP's issue  was that there are measures that could have been taken so the tenants had privacy. I realize there is limited privacy in SL, having an estate and no public access is the highest level of privacy, but the TOS clearly states as you pointed out on the link posted that certain measures need to be used if you have any type of adult activity on Mature rated land. It may have prevented the problem in the first place.

eta: if the hot tub has sexual poses besides PG then it still falls under the TOS for the avatars to be hidden on M land. They may have been using a PG pose at the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Drake this is a perfect example of people misunderstanding or missing the point of something. I said nothing about people having sex or using adult things. I said they had an intimate moment in a PG hot tub (I clarified it was PG in a later post and were cuddling, and should have initially) that was photographed by someone else because they broke my rule of not camming into other's apts, and then sent the photos onto a third party.

What I needed to know is if this is against TOS, taking photos of avatars without their permision and sharing them with others.

Clearly my definition of intamacy is different from other's. For me, if I am cuddling with someone, that is intamacy. Opening yourself up to another person completely and sharing who you are at your core being is intamacy to me. For others, it can only mean sex.

I didn't ask how to make things more private for myself or for tenants. And yet folks had to tell me how to do that. It should not matter what rating the land has or if the group is opened or closed or how thick my walls are to answer my question: Did the woman go against TOS by taking the photos of people who did not know she took them and send them to someone else. (On a side note and what should be obvious, she did so in an effort to cause drama.)

Since folks felt the need to know what rating the land was and how easy it is to join my group, which had nothing to do with the actual situation, I am now eqipped with knowledge I didn't know, so I suppose that is a blessing. Since I pay someone else other than LL for the land, and it is only part of the sim, I don't have the power to change the rating. I have checked numerous other rental places since this posting and have found most are on Moderate land, most have at least sex beds, and most have open group. What they are doing doesn't excuse myself from being in compliance, so to be in compliance, I will change the group so that people can only be invited to the group upon rental. The only adult items I provide in the rentals are adult beds (that are pretty tame compared to others) and now the new baths I recently installed. I don't advertise these things. Everything is "hidden" behind walls. I have made far more rules than most rental places to keep things as private as possible, minimize grieving, and make things as comfortable as possible for everyone. I have made a rule and posted signs of not having child avatars on the property in an effort to be in compliance with the rule of child avatars not being in proximaty of any adult items. Overall, I think I have managed to create a safe, peaceful, and comfortable environment. And I take care of my tenants.

I resolved this whole issue by sending a warning notice to the guest that broke the rule and the tenant she was visiting. The tenant that was violated has been moved way up in the sky to get them as far away as possible from each other. I talked to both tenants and there is no animosity between them, and the guest at this time, appears to be complying. I knew that I would have to handle this situation for the most part myself. I just wanted to know that if the situation were to escalate and my solutions didn't work, were the actions by the guest a violation against TOS.

To everyone that has replied to this thread: Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 3615 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...