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We do get survey threads here quite often, but why do those who don't like them post in them? To my way of thinking, it's sheer stupidity. Why don't those people have the common decency to simply ignore threads they don't like, instead of writing idiotic posts in survey threads? Grow up, for goodness sakes! It's not your forum, and it was never intended to only have threads in which you are interested.

Personally, I don't fill surveys in because i don't want to, but I feel shame at the destructive posts from people who are old enough to have grown up and know better. Live and let live, for goodness sakes.

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Personally I do look at these surveys and often fill them in before responding:) And perhaps they appreciate the Educational value of the responses they get after a drive by posting, with none of the standard credential and reference info, asking about personal details of the "study group". Plus offering money always helps =^^=

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It depends. Sometimes I take part (if the OP seems to have merit and the subject is something I can discuss), sometimes I comment, sometimes I ignore. Most of the time if I comment it is to one of those "Describe what Second Life is all about" type surveys. I am unable to resist going all professorial on those (I am neither a professor nor a teacher and I've never played one on television).

I am, however, a life-long student and it just really bugs the Hell out of me to see someone forsaking study altogether and asking others to be their researchers, especially as it concerns Second Life. I've read books that were the result of years and years of painstaking study and research. We all have.

Seems to me one could at least make an honest attempt at a paper.

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Is this another Survey?  ;)

Sometimes we are hard on the surveyors.

If there is one thing I'd expect from a student at an institution of higher learning it will be good spelling and good grammar.

I do understand that College is the place to get drunk and to get  laid, but they should sober up enough to at least run spell check.

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Phiiiiiil !!!!!!!

I m all yours !!!!! :smileylol:

i couldnt agree more ..

i couldnt have said it better...(of course not lol, english is not my native language and my english has a funny accent even while im writing lol)

and now... on top to have this snobish new trend of the "non liking survey but still post bad comments"... the pp that doesnt mind to fill the survey and tell it,  are accused to encourage the survey's OP like if they had to feel guilty for this...

As far as i know.. im still free to fill survey if i want to do, no ? Just like others are free to not fill and ignore them.

Well, im 100 % with your OP, Phil... even 200 % ! Why the hell dont this pp that are bored with survey just scroll down.. and leave the other who doesnt mind in peace ?

Now Phil... im deeply, but really depply in love with you :heart:

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Its the same why you have responses to all kind of other topics, people have an opinion and they want to express it. They do that especially when they get the feeling the thread starter is blessed with lazyness or somehow a bit stupid in the first place.

 

And some times its all about curiousity...you know, second life, games and the internet as a whole is seen by a lot people as a place where strange and dangerous losers gather and so they hope to spot some exotic beings here to make their studies a bit more interesting.

I'm always setting a bet on what the survey will be about this time.

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Its the same why you have responses to all kind of other topics, people have an opinion and they want to express it. They do that especially when they get the feeling the thread starter is blessed with lazyness or somehow a bit stupid in the first place.

I don't have a problem with comment such as "You'd do far better if you go inworld and learn about it for yourself". That kind of attitude can be helpful. It's the negative 'get lost', and other such attitudes, type of posts that I feel ashamed of on behalf of the forum. People who post those are old enough to know better but immature enough to post them anyway.

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I don't mind surveys being posted I simply would like those posting  to do so in a professional manner.  It is one thing to complete a survery for someone's doctoral dissertation or academic research and quite another to do a survey for a psych 101 class project.

Depending on who is doing what type of reserach, I would like links in their posts to their academic  institution's IRB, who their supervisor(s)/advisor(s) are for the research project and how they can be contacted, etc..  And, actually once the data has been gathered and reports completed, I would like for them to return and  post links to the work for Residents to review.

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

Phiiiiiil !!!!!!!

I m all yours !!!!! :smileylol:

Now Phil... im deeply, but really depply in love with you :heart:

That's good with me - as long as I don't have to pay maintenance/support when we split up lol.

Do not worry about your money, im not a venal girl, and i like my independance.. you wont have pb with such things with me lol..

but well... maybe we can forget about your audition then and change this into a picnic with friends then ?... idk... i still have to ask Czari for this you know.... :smileywink:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Is this another Survey? 
;)

Sometimes we are hard on the surveyors.

If there is one thing I'd expect from a student at an institution of higher learning it will be good spelling and good grammar.

I do understand that College is the place to get drunk and to get  laid, but they should sober up enough to at least run spell check.

you should also have learned that "anonymous online surveys" are utterly unreliable.

There's zero verifiability of your data, zero protection against bias in your data, zero chance to randomly select a representative set of respondents.

End result, your data is guaranteed bogus and therefore useless.

Were I a teacher and some pupil were to hand in a "study" based on an "online survey" like that he'd instantly get the lowest grade possible.

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Morgaine Christensen wrote:

I don't mind surveys being posted I simply would like those posting  to do so in a professional manner.  It is one thing to complete a survery for someone's doctoral dissertation or academic research and quite another to do a survey for a psych 101 class project.

Depending on who is doing what type of reserach, I would like links in their posts to their academic  institution's IRB, who their supervisor(s)/advisor(s) are for the research project and how they can be contacted, etc..  And, actually once the data has been gathered and reports completed, I would like for them to return and  post links to the work for Residents to review.

 

This would be my reason as well.  I have been an adjunct professor, life-long student, and earned a Masters degree which required a final Masters Thesis for which I used the internet (IRC at the time) for part of my research.  I didn't post a questionnaire (some fields of study lend themselves to this better than others), but participated in channels that represented the scope of my thesis.  I know the standards required to which I was held; thus the "Hey there!  I'm writing a paper on Are SL Residents lab rats? and need some answers" types of so-called surveys really grate on me from my educational perspective as both an instructor and a student who has written many papers from elementary school through grad. school.

I now pretty much just ignore most requests unless one is presented in a professional manner consistent with the level of study ie. high school, undergrad, graduate.

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:


Phil Deakins wrote:


Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

Phiiiiiil !!!!!!!

I m all yours !!!!! :smileylol:

Now Phil... im deeply, but really depply in love with you :heart:

That's good with me - as long as I don't have to pay maintenance/support when we split up lol.

Do not worry about your money, im not a venal girl, and i like my independance.. you wont have pb with such things with me lol..

but well... maybe we can forget about your audition then and change this into a picnic with friends then ?... idk... i still have to ask Czari for this you know.... :smileywink:

You have complete agreement from me and my blessings. ;)

*Takes out calendar, scratches off "Phil's Audition," and plans a vacation*

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There is no solution to the bias inherant in an online survey, although a surprisingly large number of folks accept them as reasonable.

There is an option for those who want to support the random undergraduates:  Create a survey database of sorts.  

Even with biased data there is a lot of stuff for the undergraduate to learn from data gathered "in the wild."   I often complain about students gathering data without proper IRB approval (and am glad to see I am not the only one).  Others object to poorly worded questions or other issues.

If a large survey database existed students could be directed to the database in order to "gather data" for their papers. 

I'm not explaining this very well, too close to the weekend I guess.  If you are curious feel free to ask questions so I can clarify.

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I like filling them out. If it is a survey about Second Life, how serious can it be anyways? They are anonymous, they don't know me and I don't know them. The ones that pay are the best, marking all C's on like 4 pages takes about 20 seconds or less.

I wonder, if a student at a real University had to do a research paper on what the living conditions and social impact of a World Health Organization doctor practicing in Cambodia entailed, would they be told they must first get a PhD and then go live there as a doctor for two years, or would it be ok for them to ask doctors who had been doing it for two years already themselves?

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Charolotte Caxton wrote:

I like filling them out. If it is a survey about Second Life, how serious can it be anyways? They are anonymous, they don't know me and I don't know them. The ones that pay are the best, marking all C's on like 4 pages takes about 20 seconds or less.

I wonder, if a student at a real University had to do a research paper on what the living conditions and social impact of a World Health Organization doctor practicing in Cambodia entailed, would they be told they must first get a PhD and then go live there as a doctor for two years, or would it be ok for them to ask doctors who had been doing it for two years 
already
themselves?

THIS ^^ 

on top i d like to say that they are not asking for any secret defense thing, just random questions that i could answer to anyone...

on top too... i think we are not the survey asker's teacher to tell him/her how s/he has to do her/his survey. I start thinking this person is as respectable as i am and so s/he has well understood what was asking her/his teacher. If not, its not my problem.. If the person hasnt the good way according HER/HIS teacher, i dont mind.. s/he will fail her work and im not here for judging this. And certainly not either to judge what her/his teacher have asked her/him to do and how s/he had to do it.

I dont feel like a lab rat at all... i fill some when im likely to do them, i avoid some other when im not in mood for this or i dont like the way the question are asked. But this end here.. My role is not to judge, because, IM NOT THE TEACHER WHO HAVE ASKED THE STUDENT FOR THIS SURVEY.

Sounds like some think they are more teacher than the one of the person who asked the survey... I think this is a really pedantic attitude. If you dont like the way the survey is done, i suggest to these ones to contact directly the teacher and discuss with him/her about how a survey has to be done... But the student cant change the way the teacher have asked to do just because some pp in the SL forum think the teacher is a lame...

Asking pp to go inworld and ask they survey there is just irrealist.... Sounds like the persons who give this advice are not inworld often... Inworld pp are here for acting, moving, dancing, exploring and tons of others things.... a forum is a place where we come with more peace, it has the advantage of the hindsight... You can write, make corrections, post, edit , repost... nothing compares with inworld chat. 

And usually, the one who do the survey doesnt have to experiment the subject of the survey but be an observator...

The great thing, is that no one is forced to answer any survey... But jumping on evey survey asker saying his/her work is **bleep** as something to see with a big lack of education and politeness imho... and also it display intolerance...

And not to mention when its about ranting on pp who answered the survey.

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Czari Zenovka wrote:


Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

 

Now Phil... im deeply, but really depply in love with you :heart:

Woot!!!!!!!  You can bake his cake. *Grins*

*Strolls off merrily to attend to pressing Redhead-related business*

ahhahahahhah Czari... do you think he can handle a redhead and a brunette at same time ? :smileywink:

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:


Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

 

Now Phil... im deeply, but really depply in love with you :heart:

Woot!!!!!!!  You can bake his cake. *Grins*

*Strolls off merrily to attend to pressing Redhead-related business*

ahhahahahhah Czari... do you think he can handle a redhead and a brunette at same time ? :smileywink:

It depends on what I'm asked to handle. I can think of some things about a redhead and a brunette that I could handle very well at the same time :)

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Charolotte Caxton wrote:

I wonder, if a student at a real University had to do a research paper on what the living conditions and social impact of a World Health Organization doctor practicing in Cambodia entailed, would they be told they must first get a PhD and then go live there as a doctor for two years, or would it be ok for them to ask doctors who had been doing it for two years 
already
themselves?

Good point and a fair question.   

The undergraduate student will certainly be asked to hit the library and gather up a reasonable fraction of the information available and base their report on that information.

Only after the student has developed a reasonable understanding of the topic from previous work would the notion of a survey or ethnographic interviews even be considered.  If the nature of the course were such that a survey is reasonable it would almost certainly require instructor approval and would certainly require that the student meet institutional requirements for human subjects protection.

The undergraduates who post their surveys here routinely show signs of having skipped the library altogether.   They are asking questions that are generally widely addressed in published sources that are easily available in their library.  Someone else mentioned spelling and grammatical errors which is sloppy at best and the sign of a last minute desperation effort to pull something out of their backside before the paper is due tomorrow at worst.

Basically a majority of the undergraduate surveys posted show signs of being laziness on the part of the student and people are right to call them on it.   If one of my lazy students came to me and complained about the treatment they were receiving for posting a survey on a message board we would have what is often called a "teachable moment."

It is sad that all the lazy students ruin it for the ones who have put in some effort. 

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:


THIS ^^ 

on top i d like to say that they are not asking for any secret defense thing, just random questions that i could answer to anyone...

on top too... i think we are not the survey asker's teacher to tell him/her how s/he has to do her/his survey. I start thinking this person is as respectable as i am and so s/he has well understood what was asking her/his teacher. If not, its not my problem.. If the person hasnt the good way according HER/HIS teacher, i dont mind.. s/he will fail her work and im not here for judging this. And certainly not either to judge what her/his teacher have asked her/him to do and how s/he had to do it.

I dont feel like a lab rat at all... i fill some when im likely to do them, i avoid some other when im not in mood for this or i dont like the way the question are asked. But this end here.. My role is not to judge, because, IM NOT THE TEACHER WHO HAVE ASKED THE STUDENT FOR THIS SURVEY.

Sounds like some think they are more teacher than the one of the person who asked the survey... I think this is a really pedantic attitude. If you dont like the way the survey is done, i suggest to these ones to contact directly the teacher and discuss with him/her about how a survey has to be done... But the student cant change the way the teacher have asked to do just because some pp in the SL forum think the teacher is a lame...

Asking pp to go inworld and ask they survey there is just irrealist.... Sounds like the persons who give this advice are not inworld often... Inworld pp are here for acting, moving, dancing, exploring and tons of others things.... a forum is a place where we come with more peace, it has the advantage of the hindsight... You can write, make corrections, post, edit , repost... nothing compares with inworld chat. 

And usually, the one who do the survey doesnt have to experiment the subject of the survey but be an observator...

The great thing, is that no one is forced to answer any survey... But jumping on evey survey asker saying his/her work is **bleep** as something to see with a big lack of education and politeness imho... and also it display intolerance...

And not to mention when its about ranting on pp who answered the survey.

Evans recently published two well done papers based in large part on survey's with participants recruited in world.  My understanding is that it took several months for him to gather the data and I first became aware of his work when someone passed me a copy of his notecard asking for participants.  I'm sure others have done similar good work as well, Evans is just the one I am aware of.

As suggested in my previous post most of the surveys we see linked on the message board are not actually associated with a professor's instructions.   These are the result of students making a last minute effort to salvage some sort of grade on their paper.  The typical undergraduate research paper involves going to the library to find, read, and synthesize the material that is already available. 

If the survey is based on following the instructor's directions, criticism is still fair. If you check university recruiting materials the latest trend is "undergraduate research opportunities."  Faculty are being "encouraged" to engage relatively large numbers of undergraduate students in research activities--often more students than can be properly supervised or instructed.  By providing supplemental instruction you help the student. 

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VRprofessor wrote:


Charolotte Caxton wrote:

I wonder, if a student at a real University had to do a research paper on what the living conditions and social impact of a World Health Organization doctor practicing in Cambodia entailed, would they be told they must first get a PhD and then go live there as a doctor for two years, or would it be ok for them to ask doctors who had been doing it for two years 
already
themselves?

Good point and a fair question.   

The undergraduate student will certainly be asked to hit the library and gather up a reasonable fraction of the information available and base their report on that information.

Only after the student has developed a reasonable understanding of the topic from previous work would the notion of a survey or ethnographic interviews even be considered.  If the nature of the course were such that a survey is reasonable it would almost certainly require instructor approval and would certainly require that the student meet institutional requirements for human subjects protection.

The undergraduates who post their surveys here routinely show signs of having skipped the library altogether.   They are asking questions that are generally widely addressed in published sources that are easily available in their library. 
Someone else mentioned spelling and grammatical errors which is sloppy at best
and the sign of a last minute desperation effort to pull something out of their backside before the paper is due tomorrow at worst.

Basically a majority of the undergraduate surveys posted show signs of being laziness on the part of the student and people are right to call them on it.   If one of my lazy students came to me and complained about the treatment they were receiving for posting a survey on a message board we would have what is often called a "teachable moment."

It is sad that all the lazy students ruin it for the ones who have put in some effort. 

It was me who mentioned the spelling and grammar.  It wasn't not too long ago we even had someone working on a Doctoral Thesis that was full of errors and as I recall they had posted their credentials.  At best it assumed a familiarity, a buddy-buddy attitude with us that made me feel uncomfortable. 

Another thing that I believe happens here is that I don't think that the survey posters, having failed to do any background work, realize that on average they are talking to an older age group here.  So they again assume a familiarity that isn't best.  What they can get away with in their pier group they are not going to get away with with us.  We are going to expect a higher level of respect for both our time and our opinions.

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i agree with you VR on the fact that yes indeed, providing some infos may help... I dont think anyone can say anything against that.

But what we see as answer to survey's OP is often not providing some info, but just like a witch-hunt against this kind of OP.

And its often made in an unpolite way.

On top, again, every teacher doesnt have the same way to work, i dont think there is "the best way", but several ones. Again, teachers can have different goals while they give this kind of work, and want to evaluate different things. 

I agree with you about lazyness, and im well placed, as a librarian in rl, to know that students are not runing in libraries, sadly,  for research, and even if they do it, they sometimes have no shame to ask us to do research for them lol... 

But when im in the forum, im here as a SLer, not as a librarian. Im not here to judge anyone... I know you are teacher in RL but sometimes i think you should consider your purpose in the forum is not your RL job, but of course, needless to say, your advices are welcome. But sometimes pp doesnt want or need advices. Sad but still real... 

i dont mind to know if they are doing well or not. As i said, im not their teacher and im not the one who asked for the work and i dont have any idea what the teacher want to evaluate while giving such work. But, i trust the fact that their teacher is wise enough to see the quality of the work their students did and if they've been lazy or not...

You are teacher, i guess you know more than everyone that when there is cheat, teachers generally are not fool and see it.

(my father and my sister are also teachers lol and ive teached for 2 years in an alternative school, so i know a lil how it works :smileywink:). 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

While we are on the subject, there is in this thread in the Merchants Sub Forum an example of a well done survey:


Well, Perrie, i ve filled it myself.. im glad to see they are coming back with the results, but i would have like they give an analysis too.

Here it was not a student survey at all... and im still not sure it was not for a commercial purpose... but well, i gave to them the benefit of the doubt and ive filled it.. Im glad to see they are giving the results today... but im curious to know what they will do with this .

Btw the results were pretty realist :smileywink:

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