Keywords

[Spinell]

Need some help and suggestions on how to come up with some good keywords for my marketplace products.

The only idea I've had so far was to research synonyms for the main keywords that best describe my products, but I haven't been able to find very good results.

 

Any tips you could give me?

[Trinity Yazimoto]

well,

Id say that giving keywords is almost an art. I practice this everyday in my rl job (im librarian) and i can tell you that its smth tricky and really subjective.

i took a quick glance to your mp store, you can add maybe words like : victorian , gothic, gowns, women dresses, dresses, mesh clothes, woman fashion, woman clothing ettc...

whatever you think its related to your items. 

I strongly advice you to always keep related keywords.

Not only put wrong keywords will be useless bec if i type women skirts, i certainly do not want to see cars and even if i see some in my search result, this will irk me and i wont certainly not buy those... but wrong keywords can be flaged and your item desactived bec of this.

having tons of keywords will be useless too. Try to keep the more relevant ones and the more efficients. Try to put yourself at the customer place, the one who would like to see products like yours and guess what this person would type in the search.

I know, its not easy, but it come easier with practice

Try to always put words at the plural mode... 

[Porky Gorky]

I think you can research this subject outside of SL and get a better quality of information. SEO is big business and there is a wealth of information out there on search trends, understanding your customer base, understanding general keyword use etc. 

Alternatively, if you don't want to get that involved in researching then maybe use something like Google Adwords which is free. I've not used it myself but someone was talking about in merchant chat the other night and it sounded like a very useful tool for generating related keywords.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

i would not use synonyms for your keywords.. they will get flagged for spam. just use words that are about your item. if its a puple mesh ress, then use purple, mesh and dress. dont put the item name or your store name in there.

[ImaTest1488314069]

When I sold items and listed on mp, I only used directly descriptive words. Using synonyms wouldn't be a good idea for most things, because those items aren't your item, and don't likely directly describe your item or are extremely vague. They might give a general idea, but that's still pretty vague. Getting a general idea is great if you're searching for something like "couch" and don't necessarily know what you're looking for. The more precise and clear you can be, the more likely search will be a friend to those wanting to find your item(s) and ones like it, specifically. Keywords are, key, to finding things quite often. They exist as a tool for shoppers to direct their search for a specific type of thing rather than just it's general sort. Their purpose is to give the search(er) some direction beyond "thing".

For example.. for a cocktail dress. You could put "garment" in the keywords, but why would you? That's so vague when there are literally tens of thousands of "garments" on mp. You want people to find YOUR piece of clothing. So while garment is a synonym, it's far too vague a search term. It's not a very likely search term either so having it in the keywords probably won't garner you many looks, let alone sales.

Using generic keywords while sometimes needed, isn't always the best idea(depends a lot on the item). A search for "dress" will bring up your dress, somewhere in the search pages. Those results can then be broken down even more, though, by using keywords. Your keywords are how someone will distinguish your dress from the tens of thousands kinda like it. So, be specifically dscriptive, not generically, and you'll likely have better luck.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

i dont agree with you Ima....

yes, i understand your point about generic keywords will put your item in the middle of tons of others.. but it will still be findable..

if you expect the customer find the exact orginal keywords you found for your item, this one wont never be found or if it does it will happen really rarely..

a keyword has to be generic and this is why, usually, database that use keyboards have thesaurus.. that limit the keywords number.. and a good database with keyboard engine will even link differents keywords one to others. Like ie... "formal" and "gown".. whatever you will look for one or other of these 2 keywords, the engine will call the same keyword. (in french we call this "renvoi" (send back to) but i dont know the real equivalent of this word in english).

but if everyone start creating their own fantaisist keywords it become a mess soon.. this is what we have in the mp bec there is no thesaurus...

but every serious databas using thesaurus, use generic keywords...The purpose of a keyword is not to make your item appear first in the listing.. but just to make your item appear in the whole listing... Again... keywords are already really subjective like this, if you add on top the lil thing that make your item original for you, noone will guess this keyword...and so it will be useless... you may still add some original ones, but generic ones are a must.

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

i dont agree with you Ima....

yes, i understand your point about generic keywords will put your item in the middle of tons of others.. but it will still be findable..

if you expect the customer find the exact orginal keywords you found for your item, this one wont never be found or if it does it will happen really rarely..

a keyword has to be generic and this is why, usually, database that use keyboards have thesaurus.. that limit the keywords number.. and a good database with keyboard engine will even link differents keywords one to others. Like ie... "formal" and "gown".. whatever you will look for one or other of these 2 keywords, the engine will call the same keyword. (in french we call this "renvoi" (send back to) but i dont know the real equivalent of this word in english).

but if everyone start creating their own fantaisist keywords it become a mess soon.. this is what we have in the mp bec there is no thesaurus...

but every serious databas using thesaurus, use generic keywords...The purpose of a keyword is not to make your item appear first in the listing.. but just to make your item appear in the whole listing... Again... keywords are already really subjective like this, if you add on top the lil thing that make your item original for you, noone will guess this keyword...and so it will be useless... you may still add some original ones, but generic ones are a must.

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 Generic keywords will get you results, of course. The question is then how do you distinguish your product from the tens of thousands of others who are also using those exact same generic keywords? Because a great majority of them will. You can see that for yourself just doing a little leg work on the mp. You're not going to do it by adding more generic keywords, I can guarantee you that.

So if you choose to use generic keywords, I'd suggesting adding in other more specifically descriptive words that will define your product as something unlike everything else in that generic sort. If all you use are generic keywords your product will not be sorted any differently than everything else using the same keyword. You won't stand out in search alone. So you'll have to stand out in other ways. When just starting out, that's a bit difficult to achieve quickly.

I will say though that keywords don't function, well don't garner the same kind of results everywhere. Just because they work one way in other areas, for other databases, uses and/or sites, does not necessarily mean they are as effective in a place like the marketplace.

I only post to offer advice, and a different perspective because I have been there. I do know how keywords work, well how they are supposed to work. I also know what did not work for me on Slex, Xstreet and Marketplace. Having had experience with all three over the 7 years my store was open(I have experience with other online businesses as well, but the same practices don't always apply to sl/mp). I can agree to disagree on our methods as not everything will work for everyone, and not everyone will like every method. I only learned what I do know through trial and error, reading various forums and advice from other merchants and even directly speaking to a great many of them. It's definitely not just some opinion with no experience to back it up. Your mileage may vary, of course

I do think you're forgetting that the description of the product will also be searched for whatever term(s) you put in the search box. This is why keywords being at least somewhat more descriptive and unique beyond a generic term will help them to stand out, a little bit more. I didn't say to make up your own words or use some fantastical words no one will ever search for. I said you should be specifically descriptive. "Dress", is not specifically descriptive. "Cocktail" is.(as an example)

 

[Spica Inventor]

Use words like 'long' if they are long dresses and dont forget to add all the accessories they come with to the key word search list. Make sure they all have the colors and patterns listed if not already in the title. If it's seasonal, don't forget to add the season to the list if it's not already in the title. Also add adjectives that might invoke a feeling like warm and cold etc. that usually correspond to colors if you have room left and can't think of anything else to put in there. Dresses and clothes in general probably need lots of 'extra' key words since there are a ton of those products out there and peeps doing searches for them are more likely to use more search words as a part of each search for that reason as they are less likely to want to spend the time looking at thousands of 'red dresses' to find the one they end up purchasing.

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Spica Inventor wrote:

 If it's seasonal, don't forget to add the season to the list if it's not already in the title. Also add adjectives that might invoke a feeling like warm and cold etc

.

that usually correspond to colors if you have room left and can't think of anything else to put in there

.

 

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that is probably the worst advice i have ever seen.. Do not add adjectives to your keywords. they have nothing to do with your item.

from the Marketplace listing policies.

 

• Item or Keyword Spam.
  • Item spam is listing an item more than once, for any reason, and will not be tolerated. The SL Marketplace provides ways to increase visibility for nominal fees. Consider an Item Enhancement or a Banner Ad. Clear variations of an item, for example, an item offered in multiple sizes (such as small, medium, and large shoes), or an item offered in multiple colors (such as a blue and black sport coat), are, however, allowed and are not considered item spam.
  • Keyword spam is the use of words (such as brand names, item names, or other terms) that have nothing to do with the item listed so that the listing will appear in search results. Keyword spam is not allowed because it clutters the SL Marketplace and makes buying and selling more difficult. In addition:
    • We do not allow descriptions that promote unrelated items in other listings, for instance, items listed in other listing categories. For example, a listing for shoes cannot say things like, "Check out my other listings for cars and watches."
    • However, it is permissible to include a link to one's store in-world or one's other listings, as long as the words used in the description do not skew search results. For example, the shoe merchant above could say: "I have these shoes in other colors, check those out here," but CANNOT say "I have these shoes in pink, yellow, blue, and green."
    • We expressly prohibit the hiding of unrelated keywords using white-on-white text, tiny fonts, HTML code, or other means intended to circumvent the rules.

[Spica Inventor]

"that is probably the worst advice i have ever seen.. Do not add adjectives to your keywords. they have nothing to do with your item.

from the Marketplace listing policies."

That's ridiculous. Most key words end up being adjectives and have something at least to do with product being marketed. Warm describes the colors in the higher frequencies and cool or cold the lower visual frequencies. Also if there is a temperature involved such as an icey scene or a hellish fire scene for example and could apply to clothing. It's not likely that someone looking for a dress will type in words such as cold or warm anyway, but it couldn't hurt to have it as one. Condition, shape, size and sound as well.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

Not the best of examples, but stretching keywords like warm and cool to describe color while seemingly harmless to the dress, do harm search results to products that do have a more legitimate use of those keywords.

In some cases it not only serves as keyword spam, but also search result spam.

Silly relevance, tricks are for kids, magicians, escorts, halloween, practical jokers, cereal, politicians...

[Porky Gorky]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

that is probably the worst advice i have ever seen.. Do not add adjectives to your keywords. they have nothing to do with your item.

 

---

Seriously? The internet is awash with bad advice, if that is the worst you have ever seen then you have lived a very sheltered life. 

Try googleing something random like "how do I remove a hamster from my arse". It will open up a whole new world of bad advice for you to immerse yourself in and it will make you realise that although Spica's advise is odd, it is not bad, just another perspective on describing things.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Porky Gorky wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

that is probably the worst advice i have ever seen.. Do not add adjectives to your keywords. they have nothing to do with your item.

 

---

Seriously? The internet is awash with bad advice, if that is the worst you have ever seen then you have lived a very sheltered life. 

Try googleing something random like "how do I remove a hamster from my arse". It will open up a whole new world of bad advice for you to immerse yourself in and it will make you realise that although Spica's advise is odd, it is not bad, just another perspective on describing things.

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i mean't.. nvm, you know what i meant.

do you need hamsters removed often?

[Knowl Paine]

It depends on the size of the Hamster.

I recommend using this.

 

 

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Porky Gorky wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

that is probably the worst advice i have ever seen.. Do not add adjectives to your keywords. they have nothing to do with your item.

 

---

Seriously? The internet is awash with bad advice, if that is the worst you have ever seen then you have lived a very sheltered life. 

Try googleing something random like "how do I remove a hamster from my arse". It will open up a whole new world of bad advice for you to immerse yourself in and it will make you realise that although Spica's advise is odd, it is not bad, just another perspective on describing things.

---

I don't often tell someone they are flat out wrong or giving terrible advice, but I agree with drake. That was terrible advice. Not because it's completely ineffective, it very well may prove to give some results. The problem is you're just opening yourself to be flagged and have your item removed. When/if that happens, your stuff, once re-listed properly, will be at the bottom, again. You'll be back at square one. Wasted time, and likely lost revenue.

Any idea that would open someone up for potential flagging and/or removal, is bad advice. It may be a different perspective, but it's still terrible advice. I see no point in giving advice at all if you're going to tell people they should test the listing guidelines, or flat out go against them. This goes double for someone just starting out. It's hard enough to get your stuff out there for the masses, sometimes.

 

[Spica Inventor]

I don't understand the spam complaint. If you don't use adjectives for search words, why should it bother you, and how are you being spammed if others do?

Sometimes I get the impression that many peeps come here just to be argumentative. ;-)

Some of the following (adjectives) I use all the time for word searches on the SL Marketplace, and apparently so do many others....

All the colors, bloody, bright, clear, crazy, dangerous, mystical, mysterious, dark/light, dead, enchanting, meditative, enchanted, evil/good, gleaming, grotesque, shiny, sparkling, vast, wicked, opalescent, translucent, transparent, arcane, to name just a few.

 

 

 

 

[Nefertiti Nefarious]

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Spinell wrote:

Need some help and suggestions on how to come up with some good keywords for my marketplace products.

The only idea I've had so far was to research synonyms for the main keywords that best describe my products, but I haven't been able to find very good results.

---

Your problem starts not with keywords, but your titles and product descriptions. The search gives EXTREMELY high rankings to listing title, and you are not using it to accurately describe your products.

Can anyone tell me what style this dress is? "Innocence -- Lisane Dress MESH"  

What is this product? "Midnight Tea Party - Fat Pack"  or this one "Innocence -- "Black Luciola" DEMO"

Look at the product you are listing ... if you saw it in a store and were going to tweet a description of it to me, what would you type? That's your title. Not your store name, not some romantin model name, not any adjectiuve like "spectacular" ... boring and prosaic: what is it?

[Porky Gorky]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

do you need hamsters removed often?

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Not since I shoved a cat up there. 

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Spica Inventor wrote:

I don't understand the spam complaint. If you don't use adjectives for search words, why should it bother you, and how are you being spammed if others do?

Your question doesn't make much sense. It's spam because the lab says it's spam, Not because I or any other merchant says it's spam. They've pre-defined that for us. Although they're not always clear on every aspect, this one isn't as vague as a lot of other areas, though could use a little bit more clarity. Am I(generic I) being harmed by another merchant breaking the guidelines and using keywords they're not supposed to? No, probably not-if I had items on the mp at the moment. Does that mean they should be allowed to do it anyway? I think the answer is clear, but..No. Rules are rules-even when we don't agree with them. We can disagree with them all we want, but to be a merchant, we still have to follow them. Until such a time as they change, assuming they ever do.

Sometimes I get the impression that many peeps come here just to be argumentative. ;-)

Probably true, but even if that were the case for most(it's not), it never hurts to read another person's opinion. Even if we wholeheartedly believe they are completely wrong. Considering how many people read and never post, one can learn a lot from the forums. People can learn exactly what not to do from reading them, just as often as they can learn what to do.

Some of the following (adjectives) I use all the time for word searches on the SL Marketplace, and apparently so do many others....

All the colors, bloody, bright, clear, crazy, dangerous, mystical, mysterious, dark/light, dead, enchanting, meditative, enchanted, evil/good, gleaming, grotesque, shiny, sparkling, vast, wicked, opalescent, translucent, transparent, arcane, to name just a few.

  

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I'll try to answer as best I can. My answers above are bolded.

If those keywords directly describe your item, there's nothing wrong with using them. Although some of those words are extremely obscure and I can't imagine many people search for them, as long as you're within the guidelines you can use whatever words you want. I'm not sure how effective they'd be for most. Just because people use them doesn't mean they're effective. I don't think I'd waste space using words people will rarely, if ever, actually use to search. But to each their own on that one. This is probably why a previous poster thought I meant those types of words when I said be specifically descriptive, I can see why they'd think it was a bad idea if this is what they thought I was saying. It's not what I meant, however. When you start throwing in words that don't describe your actual item directly, you're going to lose page views. Lost page views=lost potential revenue. Words that describe the general type of item may very well prove to be inefficient more often than not. Which again, for someone new, can be detrimental. I know many people believe that being a merchant, especially a new one, and expecting to really make anything significant of it, is a lost cause. I just don't share that opinion. Then again I tend to put myself completely and utterly into everything I do. So that's where my advice comes from, and is directed towards. Someone who is serious about making their business work and isn't just looking for a hobby of sorts. It's probably why I take some things more serious than others might.

People often, and you can search the mp yourself to see this, use adjectives that describe their other products in the keywords too. Which directly violates the guidelines, no grey area there. They do it because they believe it will get them more page views. For some people, for a short time, it might, but it's going to backfire at some point and it will likely never garner actual sales. This is probably why people who have been merchants for a while choose their keywords carefully and more often than not, they're more specifically descriptive and not generically descriptive. You do have a limited number of characters too, so that will also have an impact on what you can and cannot, or should and should not, say.

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Well Ima i think we have only a problem with language. My english is far from being perfect so i apologize in advance. 

But for me "Cocktail" is a generic keyword aswell, and if you was meaning by specific such words ok, i agree with this too... Just for me they are still generic. i guess the translation of generic world and the meaning this word has in french is maybe different than the one it has for you..

Indeed if im looking for a formal dress, i think i would type, formal, gown and also cocktail... it makes sense indeed...

When you talked about specific words i thought you talked about really specific ones that in that case, only the merchants will know and wont be in any case any keywords that will try a customer...

On a sidenote, i will add that keywords purpose is not to keep your item high in the search but just to be found in a search, i mean appearing in a list with related items... maybe its just a nuance but it means still smth.... keywords doesnt have to be used for the sole purpose to be high in search, in this case, pp will be attempted to cheat (and btw they already do), keywords have just to be used as a way of classification... but well, here im trying to explain a nuance a lil tricky for me to translate in english, so well... The result may be the same, but the purpose will be different....well too much complicated to explain for me... i prefer to give up lol...

[Spica Inventor]

"Your question doesn't make much sense. It's spam because the lab says it's spam, Not because I or any other merchant says it's spam".

Actually that's not true. The Lab did not say I was giving bad advice or promoting spamming, it was just you and Drake. (Assuming neither of you are LL employees which would not be unlikely on this board).

"They've pre-defined that for us. Although they're not always clear on every aspect, this one isn't as vague as a lot of other areas, though could use a little bit more clarity...."

Actually I don't think one could get more vague then those MP rules that Drake previously posted on this thread, which reinforces my feeling (along with all that excessive character allowance for key words) that LL doesn't really mind the so called 'spam' (whatever it is) all that much.

"If those keywords directly describe your item, there's nothing wrong with using them. Although some of those words are extremely obscure and I can't imagine many people search for them"

They would commonly be used in the 'fantasy' area of SL. Could you not imagine that aspect of SL? Also the word 'directly' would be subjectivism in this case.

"as long as you're within the guidelines you can use whatever words you want. I'm not sure how effective they'd be for most".

Just do a word search on TMP and you'll find that some of those keywords I listed result in the many thousands of hits.

"Just because people use them doesn't mean they're effective".

Actually the effectiveness correlation should be more or less direct. It's like a law of physics.

"When you start throwing in words that don't describe your actual item directly, you're going to lose page views".

Because people will get mad at you and refuse to look at your items from then on out for horribly spamming them? Is that what you're suggesting actually happens?

"Someone who is serious about making their business work and isn't just looking for a hobby of sorts. It's probably why I take some things more serious than others might."

Yes I agree. There does seem to be quite a different thinking process between the two.

"People often, and you can search the mp yourself to see this, use adjectives that describe their other products in the keywords too. Which directly violates the guidelines, no grey area there".

Well I agree that some are really stretching it with their word choices for their keywords, however they're definitely not restricted to adjectives. In fact the not so related noun usage is the biggest problem imho. But still, 'the grey area' is quite large even with nouns and especially when it comes to much more common things such as dresses. For example 'gothic' 'dress' might as well throw in the noun 'Drow' and 'dark Elf' also perhaps as Drow Elves like gothic stuff. ;-)

"They do it because they believe it will get them more page views. For some people, for a short time, it might, but it's going to backfire at some point and it will likely never garner actual sales. This is probably why people who have been merchants for a while choose their keywords carefully and more often than not, they're more specifically descriptive and not generically descriptive".

Is that the people will get mad at you for 'spamming' and not buy your stuff as a consequence theory again? ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

you know what else you cant do.. sell the item for cheaper inworld.