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Any chance I could get banned for this?


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It's against TOS. Should be end of the discussion there. Why wasn't it?

Yes it hurts the creator of that object because they did not intend their work to be used in that way. If they wanted to make a blue one they would have made a blue one. If you ask them maybe they will make a blue one. 

What you are doing by modding the texture is getting around buying a sculpt. They sold you one outfit not a sculpt to make your own outfits forever. So yeah it hurts their sales. Maybe one day they wanted to sell a sculpt. Sculpts for building cost more than one finished product.

People try to justify stealing, whether it is someone else's work made into a specific face or body, or someone's work made into a specific texture you want to erase. It's still using someone else's work in a way they didn't intend. You know it's wrong or you wouldn't keep asking. But at least deep down you know it is wrong. Now you just have to stop being tempted. Learn to make your own stuff.

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Clarissa Lowell wrote:

It's against TOS. Should be end of the discussion there. Why wasn't it?

when talking about advising people what to do, it should end there.  it's one of those rare tos violations that ll seems to take seriously so don't do it.

when talking about how *wrong* it is for people to use copybot, there's more to it than the tos and dmca.

what about the case when the merchant has left the game?  i buy a vehicle.  copy, no mod, no trans.  looks good.  drives good.  years go by.  merchant leaves sl.  server code changes.  vehicle no longer drives good.  it's unique and unreplaceable.  assuming i could break the no mod and rescript it (and never give/sell my edited version), who does that hurt?

the original merchant?  no, they're long gone

another merchant who sells something similar?  no, they don't exist, the item is unique

another merchant who can recreate the item? oh no, can't do that, that would violate the original merchant's ip

so, if i could, i update the scripts myself.  who specifically does that hurt and how specifically does that hurt?  anyone, explain it to me.  i'd really like to know.

"it's against the law"  that's not what i'm asking about.

 

 

 

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Bernie Shippe wrote:


Clarissa Lowell wrote:

It's against TOS. Should be end of the discussion there. Why wasn't it?

when talking about advising people what to do, it should end there.  it's one of those rare tos violations that ll seems to take seriously so don't do it.

when talking about how *wrong* it is for people to use copybot, there's more to it than the tos and dmca.

what about the case when the merchant has left the game?  i buy a vehicle.  copy, no mod, no trans.  looks good.  drives good.  years go by.  merchant leaves sl.  server code changes.  vehicle no longer drives good.  it's unique and unreplaceable.  assuming i could break the no mod and rescript it (and never give/sell my edited version), who does that hurt?

the original merchant?  no, they're long gone

another merchant who sells something similar?  no, they don't exist, the item is unique

another merchant who can recreate the item? oh no, can't do that, that would violate the original merchant's ip

so, if i could, i update the scripts myself.  who specifically does that hurt and how specifically does that hurt?  anyone, explain it to me.  i'd really like to know.

"it's against the law"  that's not what i'm asking about.

 

 

 

I think many of us feel your pain on this.

I have one specific item I would absolutely love to have a second copy of.

Every time I look at it I go "damn, I wish I had bought a second copy." 

But you know, I'm not going to cheat on it.

 

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Just more excuses and rationalizations.  A creators IP rights do not terminate if they leave the game.  It makes no difference who you think gets hurt or doesn't.  So no explanations are needed.

You know full well it is wrong or you wouldn't keep coming up with hypothetical situations hoping to get support for your position that IP rights obliviously mean nothing to you  and that you are above everyone else and don't have to follow the rules if it is inconvenient to you at any given time. In addition copybot or anything like it is banned in SL.  If you use it under any circumstance, you should be banned.  If you don't like the TOS, the only remedy is to leave SL. 

 

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Bernie Shippe wrote:

what about the case when the merchant has left the game?  

They could still be online selling it somewhere else. And you would still be in SL and there would still be a TOS to go by. OK what if they died. What if that is selling somewhere else. You copy and sell it or copy and change it for yourself. Now their thing is your thing. What if that's part of their estate. You took your piece of pie without asking kinda. 

If people want to steal they are gonna steal so this is kinda waste of time because aren't you going to do it anyway. You don't think it is wrong.

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Did you even read my post ?,, I did`t say I was above the law and the TOS. Yes I did agree to the TOS of LL ,, and I did`t tell any one what to do here has you putt it ( If you want to make your items modifiable, that is your right.  But you have no right to tell other creators what permissions they should set. ) where did I say I did have that right hmmm ?,,,,,but you could know has well if I do if you don't got any proof of any one doing any wrong doing with yours stuff that you have a copyright with or these others builders stuff ,,,your lil TOS note card don't mean **bleep** either does your DMCA it a matter of case  you got to prove they did broke it and if you can't prove it you pretty much up a **bleep** creek with it ,, if you don't know about it being done there nothing any TOS or DMCA can do you got prove it other words its point less.

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madman626 Fall wrote:

 if you don't know about it being done there nothing any TOS or DMCA can do you got prove it other words its point less.

 

the point is that permissions allow the creator to set them as they choose. linden enforce this. if linden catch you changing the creators perms then you will get a ban. the creator don't have to catch you. only linden

+

why creators set prims and sculpts to the copy + no-mod combination is beyond me tho

only reason I ever got why some creators do this is bc they not have to deal with the support problems when their customers don't make a copy before they start modding

I am happy to respect the creators choice to do this tho. I just not buy them. copy + no-mod prims and sculpts 

 

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16 wrote:

 

why creators set prims and sculpts to the copy + no-mod combination is beyond me tho

only reason I ever got why some creators do this is bc they not have to deal with the support problems when their customers don't make a copy before they start modding

 

I've mentioned this in other threads - I ran across a furniture designer (no one who I've ever seen on the forums) who sells their items transfer only.  That amazed me!!!  Especially since it appears this merchant does a thriving business.  This person sells most items in a lot of different colors/patterns so that is my guess for the no-mod; so people don't re-texture.

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can kinda understand the transfer combination that furniture and garden makers do. like I buy about 30 grass and flower beds like that to carpet my parcel

if was copy then I only buy like 5 or 6. only 1 of each kind

+

can see how your example works as well. like if you making heaps of different textures/colors for same product then no-mod + transfer makes sense

+

for me I mostly get attachments. so I want copy + mod. hair shoes jewellery stuff etc

funny thing is tho. my 2 most fav attachments that I wear the most are my MP4 and my phone. they both copy + no-mod. lol. but they were free so I cant complain about that (:

is funny how free stuff can end up your fav. like my fav trainers. they were free. I got a zillion pairs shoes and all kinds of expensive paid stuff. but I wear them trainers the most (:

 

 

 

 

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Most people don't want to modify their furniture as long as it has a texture or color change script, so I can see a merchant doing very well with no mod perms.  I like to encourage my customers to use tint in Edit, so I make most of my fabrics light enough to tint over. If they mess something up they can return it to me for a replacement, but tinting is pretty safe. 

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

Most people don't want to modify their furniture as long as it has a texture or color change script, so I can see a merchant doing very well with no mod perms.  I like to encourage my customers to use tint in Edit, so I make most of my fabrics light enough to tint over. If they mess something up they can return it to me for a replacement, but tinting is pretty safe. 

 

The merchant to whom I'm referring does not have any type of scripted texture/color change in her items.  What she does have is, for example, a sitting-type pillow in a gazillion different colors.

Interesting anecdote on tinting - years ago I offered tintable drapes.  They were advertised as such with detailed instructions including a URL to a web site that showed colors with their RGB values.  A friend suggested I offer different colors of the drapes.  I said they wouldn't sell because the customer can tint the drapes any color they wish.  Later on, as an experiment, I offered the same drapes in black - all I did was tint the basic drapes - something anyone can do, especially with the instructions I provided.  Lo and behold, the black drapes began selling in addition to the original ones.  I continued adding colors.  There are three main colors that sell and about five others that sell occasionally.  To date all the drapes are copy/mod so someone could conceivably purchase one set of drapes and make multiple copies in a myriad of colors.  I no longer advertise them as tintable but, since they are mod, they are.

 

 

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Bernie Shippe wrote:


Clarissa Lowell wrote:

It's against TOS. Should be end of the discussion there. Why wasn't it?

when talking about advising people what to do, it should end there.  it's one of those rare tos violations that ll seems to take seriously so don't do it.

when talking about how *wrong* it is for people to use copybot, there's more to it than the tos and dmca.

what about the case when the merchant has left the game?  i buy a vehicle.  copy, no mod, no trans.  looks good.  drives good.  years go by.  merchant leaves sl.  server code changes.  vehicle no longer drives good.  it's unique and unreplaceable.  assuming i could break the no mod and rescript it (and never give/sell my edited version), who does that hurt?

the original merchant?  no, they're long gone

another merchant who sells something similar?  no, they don't exist, the item is unique

another merchant who can recreate the item? oh no, can't do that, that would violate the original merchant's ip

so, if i could, i update the scripts myself.  who specifically does that hurt and how specifically does that hurt?  anyone, explain it to me.  i'd really like to know.

"it's against the law"  that's not what i'm asking about.

 

 

 

Back in the day, because I'm pretending to be old right now, I had some pretty awesome things. I still have many of those awesome things. The people, or companies, who made them no longer exist. Most of those people were probably dead long before my parents had an oops and named it me. It sure would be neat to have those things I loved(and love) so dearly in different styles, different colors, different designs. Especially the neat things that no longer work properly. But alas that is not to be for a great many of them, because those people cannot make/fix/design them for me. I surely cannot make/fix/design them all for myself, either.

That was a rant about rl items, but the same sort of concept exists in sl, except with much stricter rules tacked on to the items we choose to buy and what we can or cannot do with/to them. In rl you do often have a bit more freedom as to what you can and cannot do with things you own. In sl, however, that's not always the case. You're bound by the rules you agree to, period. If you don't agree, don't buy. That's what I do. I really like modding things, though. So I tend to buy a lot more of them than others.

Something you do does not have to hurt anyone for it to be wrong. A merchant does not have to lose a sale, or in any other way bothered by your actions(or even still be around/alive), in order for those actions to be against the rules you agreed to abide by. Rules are there for a reason. While I may be the first person to tell someone they should challenge things they don't agree with, I will also be the first person to say you should do so carefully and watch where you intend to tread.

For me, it's not a matter of "I don't want to harm this merchant", it's a matter of "the TOS says I can't, so I won't".

 

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madman626 Fall wrote:

Did you even read my post ?,, I did`t say I was above the law and the TOS. Yes I did agree to the TOS of LL ,, and I did`t tell any one what to do here has you putt it ( If you want to make your items modifiable, that is your right.  But you have no right to tell other creators what permissions they should set. ) where did I say I did have that right hmmm ?,,,,,but you could know has well if I do if you don't got any proof of any one doing any wrong doing with yours stuff that you have a copyright with or these others builders stuff ,,,your lil TOS note card don't mean **bleep** either does your DMCA it a matter of case  you got to prove they did broke it and if you can't prove it you pretty much up a **bleep** creek with it ,, if you don't know about it being done there nothing any TOS or DMCA can do you got prove it other words its point less.

 

You don't have to say it.  Your rationalizations say it for you. 

As far as what a RL court would do I think you are wrong there too.  It wouldn't be that difficult to prove as you could subpoena LL for the proof to show you copybotted it and that is the only way you could mod it. There is precedent for it.  There have been creators that took people who copybotted stuff to court and won.  And we'd see if the TOS "don't mean **bleep**" either if you got banned.

As far as what you said to other builders, you wrote quite a diatribe to other builders about making things no mod that boiled down to telling them they shouldn't or they would be telling you what to do with something that you think you own, but btw you don't.

Section 7.3 of the TOS says:

"You acknowledge that when you receive a User Content License you receive only licensing and use rights: You therefore do not acquire ownership of any copies of the Content, or transfer of any copyright or other Intellectual Property Rights in the Content. You acknowledge that with respect to the use of the words "Buy" and "Sell" as used in this Agreement and throughout the Service in the context of User Content: (a) the term "Sell" means "to grant a User Content License in exchange for Linden dollars or other consideration in accordance with the Terms of Service," (b) the term "Buy" or "Purchase" means "to receive a User Content License in exchange for Linden dollars or other consideration in accordance with the Terms of Service," and © the terms "Buyer," "Seller," "Sale" and "Purchaser" and similar terms have corresponding meanings to their root terms. This includes User Content that may be Bought or Sold on the Second Life Marketplace web site."

So yes, I think you think  you are above the TOS and the law.  You may not have broken either yet but you see nothing wrong with doing it. 

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