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solstyse wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Windows 8 has issues with SL. it has been reported in many many threads.

I'll be testing that theory next. I just got a copy. I hate the UI, but I really, really want it's efficient task manager.

Should I put the results on this thread, or start a new one? Cause I promise, it will work on my machine.

 

Its not a theory.. many people have reported issues with Windows 8.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


solstyse wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Windows 8 has issues with SL. it has been reported in many many threads.

I'll be testing that theory next. I just got a copy. I hate the UI, but I really, really want it's efficient task manager.

Should I put the results on this thread, or start a new one? Cause I promise, it will work on my machine.

 

Its not a theory.. many people have reported issues with Windows 8.

most people reporting that they cant get Win8 drivers for their hardwares. when get that sorted out then it goes pretty good 

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16, you beat me to it. The main issue iwth Win8 is that it tends to install Microsoft "generic" drivers to replace the Win7 drivers, most of which came direct from the manufacturer. Now, I am determined. It will work. So when it does, should I post the steps I took to make it happen ere, or on a seperate thread? In other words, which way of posting would help more people?

 

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solstyse wrote:

16, you beat me to it. The main issue iwth Win8 is that it tends to install Microsoft "generic" drivers to replace the Win7 drivers, most of which came direct from the manufacturer. Now, I am determined. It will work. So when it does, should I post the steps I took to make it happen ere, or on a seperate thread? In other words, which way of posting would help more people?

 

best place to relate your adventures is in the SL Viewer forum. most people go there looking for advice

+

ps.

i got Windows 8 64-bit now. once i sort out my video and sound card drivers then it was ok

most my main problem was actual setting up my Belkin router to work with Win8 and SL. i made a BUG report about that. and Whirly Fizzle help me sort that out. so \o/

 

 

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


solstyse wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Windows 8 has issues with SL. it has been reported in many many threads.

I'll be testing that theory next. I just got a copy. I hate the UI, but I really, really want it's efficient task manager.

Should I put the results on this thread, or start a new one? Cause I promise, it will work on my machine.

Its not a theory.. many people have reported issues with Windows 8.

For example in the below thread one person appears to have big problems in trying to run SL on Windows 8:

3 PC's on Windows 8 - Second Life doesn't work

computer-smash.gif                    headache.gif

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16 wrote:


about the lady who makes rigs. you have to weigh it up as to the value it adds

when I got mine. I decide to get it made by the shop. I could maybe have made myself. but I decide to not. bc was a whole complete new box. like they made sure it had all the proper BIOs and OS and drivers installed proper. so when I get then just turn on and go

was peace of mind really.
if I ever have any problems with it. like some of the stuff breaks or is not working like the drivers then I can just take back to them. and they will fix. like get the new parts or softwares whatever. and will sort out any warranty replacements for me

 

(Emphasis mine)

Excellent way of phrasing this, 16, and is how I feel as well.  I *could* probably build my own PC but, at this point, I just want to be able to run SL better than I can now.

I have received a lot of help, advice, suggestions, etc. from the forums, friends in world, and some IMs.  At this point the route I would prefer to go is to purchase a prebuilt PC from a Best Buy type store that has decent specs, put in a better graphics card, and upgrade over time.  A forum friend has taken quite a bit of time to do some research for me and provided links to some rigs that are AMAZING buys for what they offer; however, they all have Win 8 installed and that is an absolute deal-breaker for me.

This morning I awoke with a new question - is it possible to install Win 7 over Win 8 and is that more of a headache than I want to deal with?

Many, many thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to provide info/advice. :)

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


solstyse wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Windows 8 has issues with SL. it has been reported in many many threads.

I'll be testing that theory next. I just got a copy. I hate the UI, but I really, really want it's efficient task manager.

Should I put the results on this thread, or start a new one? Cause I promise, it will work on my machine.

 

Its not a theory.. many people have reported issues with Windows 8.

In every review I have read of PCs I have looked at that were purchased new from Best Buy, Office Max, etc., whether the person had issues with it or not (some did)...without exception each person said that Win 8 took a LOT of getting used to - some to the point that it severely hindered the new PC experience.

Having taught application software since back in the days of DOS I've noticed that ever since the introduction of the Windows OS it seems like every other major OS released by MS is a pain....a la Vista.  I don't doubt that Win 8 *can* run SL, but I personally don't want to deal with it.  People seem to be very happy with Win 7 which will still be a bit of a change for me from XP, but that I can handle.  I don't want to bring a new PC home and start pulling out my hair over the OS...lol.

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

This morning I awoke with a new question - is it possible to install Win 7 over Win 8 and is that more of a headache than I want to deal with?

Many, many thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to provide info/advice.
:)

Yes you can actually. You will need a Windows 7 Disk. Pop it into the DVD/BR drive, and boot from it. You can wipe out the Windows 8 partitions and then proceed to install Windows 7 on a fresh partition.

 

However, I would suggest that you make Windows 8 DVD's first(most manufacturer's allow you to make a copy) before you wipe out anything.

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Well, the win8 problems with sl aren't on every single computer. That tells me that the issue isn't how the OS handles the viewer, but how it translates between the viewer and the hardware. to tell the truth, I hope I start out with some problems so that I can go in depth about what I had to do to make it work.

Driver issues pop up with every even numbered Windows OS. With Vista, there just wasn't any motivation to solve the problems. At that time, everyone on XP was quite satisfied with how it worked. Many still are. Win7 was nothing more than what Vista should have been. It added a lot of functionallity to all those "useless" vista features.

Now, Win7 remains the popular OS. I LOVE 7. But I got a legit copy of Win8 for only $68. And I've seen it work. It boots up faster, and it handles cpu processes much more efficiently. The Win8 UI is a face that only a mother can love, and she'd have to be blind to do so. But the task manager and advanced indexing  that's underneath that ugly fascade is what I'm after.

As for getting used to the look of Win8, all you have to do is ease yourself into it. Press win+d right at startup, or any time really,  and you'll have a more familiar Win7-esque look. Maybe it'll be easier for me than most to get used to it, since I already switch regularly between xp, 7(with and without aero), 8, unity, gnome, and ics (still mourning the loss of gingerbread and webtop 2.0 on my motorola) If you do a lot of your computing from the "runline" then 8 works just as well as 7.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I think Vista was just released as something to hold Microsoft over until they could get Win7 ready. After all, XP is the longest running OS they ever made. The market was pretty well saturated. by the time Vista came out, there were no 98se/me/2k machines left as anyone's "Primary" computer. Microsoft needed something to sell. Win8 is a bit different. I'm convinced that it exists to sell other hardware. By making the UI the same as what they use on their "lesser" electronics, they're hoping to boost their sales in markets other than PC's. That tie-together has made the PC UI quite a bit uglier than it used to be, but from it we gain better handling of multitasking and indexing, lighter, more efficient software, etc.

So, there are people right now struggling with Win8 not wanting to run sl. Well, there were people strugglling to run SL on slow computers too. I think my experience with Win8 will lead to another thread. :)

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


solstyse wrote:


Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Windows 8 has issues with SL. it has been reported in many many threads.

I'll be testing that theory next. I just got a copy. I hate the UI, but I really, really want it's efficient task manager.

Should I put the results on this thread, or start a new one? Cause I promise, it will work on my machine.

 

Its not a theory.. many people have reported issues with Windows 8.

Good news for all that reported issues with Win8 and sl. It happened to me. And I fixed it in less than an hour. I'll be starting a thread about that next.

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I just read your thread on how to solve the Win 8 issue.  That should be a sticky, imo.

Update on PC buying progress (because I just know everyone is awaiting the "verdict" - lol) ... I appreciate those of you who commented on the price of the custom built PCs by the woman I mentioned being a bit high for what is offered.  I'm all for someone making a profit but, after doing some more checking out "store bought" PCs online, I'm seeing I can get a whole lot more PC for a lot less money, even with the addition of adding a new graphics card.

At least I have now narrowed down that I am going the "off the shelf" route and I have a number of computers bookmarked.  My eyes are currently crossing from reading specs so will go over what I have bookmarked when I'm feeling more refreshed and, hopefully, choose one this week.  I am also delighted to see that there are still a decent number of PCs with Win  7 preloaded.

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Happy Toshi wrote:

you make me feel bad for having a three year old pc .... got 8 gb of ram i7 3.5 and a xfx r7870 black editon video card I got a really old computer I guess... :matte-motes-angry:

Don't feel badly...my MB is 10 years old. :matte-motes-agape: 

Thus why I'm PC shopping. ;)

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Thanks for the compliment :) The Win8 fix went nice and smooth. Now, if only I could get SL running in Ubuntu 21.10 or Linux Mint 14 (Nadia) I'd be set. Both are the 32 bit versions, by the way.

Anyone have a fix for the latest Linux distros?

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solstyse wrote:

 

Good news for all that reported issues with Win8 and sl. It happened to me. And I fixed it in less than an hour. I'll be starting a thread about that next.

The reported issues with Windows 8 are with PCs that have them i pre-installed from the factory, not upgrades like you did. The others have done all of the driver tricks and still cannot use SL. Perhaps it is different if you upgrade since you could use SL before the upgrade.

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Well, the OS is the same. And the viewer is the same. Logically, we must look at what is different... The hardware.

So now, the relavent question is what the people with Win8 as the OEM OS need to wait for. Is it for the hardware manufacturers to improve on the drivers that they offer? Or is it for LL to update their code to become compatible with the newer hardware? Scientifically, the fact that Windows 8 will run sl on some machines makes the statement that Windows 8 is the problem false. Also, if Win8 is the OEM OS, then they are dealing with a different computer, which makes hardware the variable, not the OS.

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solstyse wrote:

Well, the OS is the same. And the viewer is the same. Logically, we must look at what is different... The hardware.

So now, the relavent question is what the people with Win8 as the OEM OS need to wait for. Is it for the hardware manufacturers to improve on the drivers that they offer? Or is it for LL to update their code to become compatible with the newer hardware? Scientifically, the fact that Windows 8 will run sl on some machines makes the statement that Windows 8 is the problem false. Also, if Win8 is the OEM OS, then they are dealing with a different computer, which makes hardware the variable, not the OS.

So, if Win 7 works just fine out of the box with SL but Win 8 has to be tweaked with what drivers it installs when that OS is installed its a hardware problem? That doesn't make a lick of sense. If the OS installs drivers that are not the latest for your hardware, even though the latest drivers are already installed and it rolls them back to older ones, then it's an OS software problem. The OS is screwed up.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:


solstyse wrote:

Well, the OS is the same. And the viewer is the same. Logically, we must look at what is different... The hardware.

So now, the relavent question is what the people with Win8 as the OEM OS need to wait for. Is it for the hardware manufacturers to improve on the drivers that they offer? Or is it for LL to update their code to become compatible with the newer hardware? Scientifically, the fact that Windows 8 will run sl on some machines makes the statement that Windows 8 is the problem false. Also, if Win8 is the OEM OS, then they are dealing with a different computer, which makes hardware the variable, not the OS.

So, if Win 7 works just fine out of the box with SL but Win 8 has to be tweaked with what drivers it installs when that OS is installed its a hardware problem? That doesn't make a lick of sense. If the OS installs drivers that are not the latest for your hardware, even though the latest drivers are already installed and it rolls them back to older ones, then it's an OS software problem. The OS is screwed up.

Have you ever installed an operating system? This is a much more common occurance than you think. I'ts not unique to Win8. It happened in every single previous edition of Windows, and will happen again in Win9. The problem is neither the hardware, nor the OS. It is the drivers.

An operating system does not "talk" directly to the hartdware. It does so through the use of drivers. To oversimplify, the drivers "translate" between the software and the hardware. Windows, Mac, and Linux require different drivers for the same hardware because they "speak" different languages. Between versions of the same OS, it might be considered a different dialect.

Basically, a good analogy would be an American talking to someone with a thick Scottish accent. The American will generally understand, but there will be moments where the American will have to ask, "What the hell did he just say?" Same basic idea. Windows dialect (drivers) change little by little with each new distrobution. That's why the older you go in Windows, the harder it is for Windows 8 to understand.

Now, hardware that has existed since the older operating system, and continues to be supported by the manufacturer will have a versioin of the driver for both operating systems, so the solution would be a simple download.

However, if your driver is incompatible with Window 8, it will supply it's own "generic" driver. This is necessary. In the case of video drivers, it's the only thing that prevents a blank screen. Often, the generic driver will even display at full resolution, giving you little clue that there's anything wrong. However, due to the fact that it's not made specifically for the hardware, some functionallity is lost. Usually it's 3d acceleration and/or 3d rendering. This is the cause of older PC's that upgrading being unable to see SL.

On the flipside, if the hardware is so new that the drivers are written do different standards than a program such as your Second Life viewer is written to recognize, then your back in the same situation. The manufacturer may have dropped some of the backward compatibility that is needed for "legacy" applications to run. (Legacy means any software designed to run in the old fashioned desktop instead of the new modern/metro ui. It's important to note that computers will always use the manufacturer's proprietary drivers instead of the Microsoft generic for 3d rendering. This situation is fixed in one of two ways. Either the manufacturer releases an updated driver which allows for the backward compatibility that is needed (which will happen if enough popular programs fail to work with that driver) or the software developer makes an update to incorporate the new standard.

To put this in perspective, on a technical level expecting Windows8 to be compatible with Windows XP would be like expecting Windows 7 to be compatible with Windows 98/ME. The only reason why people expect it is because XP was such a popular, long running distrobution. If it wasn't one of Microsoft's best, then it really would seem just as silly as expecting 98/me programs to work.  It's hard to part with. the announcements that have already been made about Win9 speak both for the age and the popularity of XP. If you think there are compatibility issues now, just wait.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for the post followed your direction and it made a difference in LL viewer. Right now I'm stuck on using a laptop because my desktop gave up and I'm saving up to get a good one. Tried to use firestorm (which a like) but just couldn't get it to be stable on my slower laptop. Never tried Catznip before but since all your other suggestions worked out great I'm downloading it now to test it out. Again thanks for the info has made my second life so much better (so now what can you do improve my first life :womanlol:

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  • 1 year later...

thanks for that post

it got me back into a graphical viewer for 2nd life after weeks of thinking I could only run Metabot  on my laptop,

I'm curently running SL on an older( 2008) ultraportable laptop,  - win xp,  core 2 duo 2.4Ghz , with 3gb ram and intel gma4500hd graphics chipset,  screen set to 1280x800 resolution.

as advised turned all settings to low and experimented with various viewers, working with a  dsl 512k internet provider over wifi,

found...    2nd life /  firestorm / singularity   would not run, either wouldnt allow connection or crashed  upon connection,

however...   Catzip /  kokua / meercat / rainbow viewer, all allow connection with Catzip and Rainbow  being the fastest loading, and Rainbow being the viewer I've opted for ,

as long as I dont push the graphics past mid, and keep the draw distance down and  do my chatting from low lag simms its all working  great,...

 

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  • 1 year later...


KRYSTA Emor wrote:

What Viewer Do I Use For Second Life Can Someone Please Help Me Thank You 

 

This one: https://secondlife.com/support/downloads?lang=en-US

or

This one: http://www.firestormviewer.org/downloads/

if your computer meets the minimum requirements: https://secondlife.com/my/support/system-requirements/index.php

 

 

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