Oh Come On

[Ayesha Askham]

This:

"Scheduled Inventory Database Maintenance

Posted by Status Desk on January 22nd, 2013 at 11:46 pm PST

[Posted 10:52pm PST, 22 January 2013]  We will be undergoing scheduled inventory server maintenance tomorrow January 22, 2013 from 5am PST to 7am PST.  During this time, some residents will be logged off and will be temporarily unable to log in for a brief period. This maintenance may disrupt transactions and logins. Please check back here for updates."

Two points:

One: Posted at 10:52pm on the 22nd it apparently refers to an operation that took place earlier the same day.  Now obviously this is a typo and the work is due on the 23rd, but this exemplifies, in my mind, the slipshod approach to SecondLife that Linden Lab is displaying at present.

 

Two: Major operations immediately prior to a Rolling Restart.  Considering the recent spate of badly executed Rolls, this is reckless.

 

Oh, and while I'm here, this idiotic software let me in to post without my needing to log in.  No, I am not logged into any other of the SL webpages.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Ayesha Askham wrote:

Oh, and while I'm here, this idiotic software let me in to post without my needing to log in.  No, I am not logged into any other of the SL webpages.

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Make sure you sign out. Unlike the dashboard page, the forum doesn't log you out when you close your browser. Maybe that's what happened.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

could be worse.. it used to be a weekly occurrence that we had  at least half a day with no SL.. som times a full day.

 

[Ayesha Askham]

@Kwakkelde

Yes, I am paranoid about staying logged into sites so I "always" log out!  I was unclear.  When I went to the log in page it promptly took me to a logged in page.  Frequently I have to log in several times before this forum software acknowleges that I am in.  Most times I just get a 400 error, or I get taken to the main site (logged in).  If I then navigate back here I am still logged out - it is frustrating in the extreme!:smileyfrustrated:

@Drake

I would have hoped that we had progressed a little from 2007.  It is not SL or even individual Lindens that I chafe at, it is their godforsaken management!

Most Lindens I know are helpful and decent people!:smileyhappy:

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

I don't know why you get the error, I have never seen that and I have never been redirected. What I do notice, always, is that logging into the forums allows me to go to my dashboard without logging in, but not the other way around. Not sure if it is supposed to work like that.

[Perrie Juran]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

I don't know why you get the error, I have never seen that and I have never been redirected. What I do notice, always, is that logging into the forums allows me to go to my dashboard without logging in, but not the other way around. Not sure if it is supposed to work like that.

---

When they first moved to Lithium we complained a lot about how the log ins and cookies were working.

Three services....The Dashboard, The Forums & The Marketplace.  Signing into one could result in you being signed into another...but it has always been hit or miss with no rhyme or reason.

But the really bad part is that signing out of one NEVER signs you out of the other.

Merchants and others have been burned by this when they thought they were using one account and not paying attention were actually using another.

Makes for very bad Mojo.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Three services....The Dashboard, The Forums & The Marketplace.  Signing into one could result in you being signed into another...but it has always been hit or miss with no rhyme or reason.

But the really bad part is that signing out of one NEVER signs you out of the other.

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That's not my experience. Signing in to the forums also logs me in to my dashboard and marketplace, but never the other way around. Logging out of the forums also logs me out of the dash. Closing the browser logs me out of my dash and marketplace (where there's money to be spent/stolen, so that's good), but it doesn't log me out of the forums. I'm the only person using this computer, but on a shared one this could lead to very nasty situations. Might be a good idea to check after signing out if it actually worked.

[Perrie Juran]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

Three services....The Dashboard, The Forums & The Marketplace.  Signing into one could result in you being signed into another...but it has always been hit or miss with no rhyme or reason.

But the really bad part is that signing out of one NEVER signs you out of the other.

---

That's not my experience. Signing in to the forums also logs me in to my dashboard and marketplace, but never the other way around. Logging out of the forums also logs me out of the dash. Closing the browser logs me out of my dash and marketplace (where there's money to be spent/stolen, so that's good), but it doesn't log me out of the forums. I'm the only person using this computer, but on a shared one this could lead to very nasty situations. Might be a good idea to check after signing out if it actually worked.

---

This has been the problem...it has been a hit and miss situation with different people experiencing different things over different sessions.  I documented all this back when they switched to Lithium but I'm too lazy to go find my own thread now.

In other words, the way the cookies have behaved has not been consistent.

This morning after I logged into my Dashboard I openned the Forum and was automatically logged in.

This afternoon, after logging into my Dashboard, I also had to relog in to the Forum.

I had shut down my computer last night whenI went to sleep.  It's been on all day now.

There was (is) one user here who can play on his dashboard, shop the market, etc, etc, but every time they tried to post a reply here they had to re-enter their log in.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

So again, check check double check if you are really logged out. It's annoying, but not a "showstopper".

[Ayesha Askham]

OK Kwakkelde

What part of "We are doing it right" are you failing to comprehend?  Let me share with you my attempts tonight:

Attempts 1 & 2 : Error 400.

Attempt 3: redirected to the "Help" page of the main site, when I navigate back to the forums I am still logged out.

Attempts 4 & 5: Same.

Attempt 6: Direct attempt to log in to "reply" on this thread: error 400.

attempt 7, same as 6: redirected to "help" page.

Attempt 8: successful.

Now this is not normal and it has nothing to do with being logged in on any other related page.

If I log out of the forum and it says I am logged out, I am logged out...I cannot "relog out"

Perrie sees this, I see this and so do many others who attempt to use this forum.  It reduces the ability of SL residents to rationally present issues to Linden Lab, because with such a process, you end up (as you will have seen by my initial comment) feeling more than a little wound up!!  This is WAY beyond merely being annoying.:smileyfrustrated:

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Ayesha Askham wrote:

OK Kwakkelde

What part of "We are doing it right" are you failing to comprehend?  Let me share with you my attempts tonight:

Attempts 1 & 2 : Error 400.

Attempt 3: redirected to the "Help" page of the main site, when I navigate back to the forums I am still logged out.

Attempts 4 & 5: Same.

Attempt 6: Direct attempt to log in to "reply" on this thread: error 400.

attempt 7, same as 6: redirected to "help" page.

Attempt 8: successful.

Now this is not normal and it has nothing to do with being logged in on any other related page.

---

If I say I don't have these issues it doesn't mean you are not doing it "right", I never said that.

I'm not failing to comprehend anything, you might though:

The help page is part of the SL homepage. Logging in there does not log me into the forums either. It logs me into my dashboard and marketplace though. That's what I described. Whether the process makes sense is another matter.

So again how it works for me:

Log into the forums (successfully) and I am also logged into the marketplace and dashboard

Log into the marketplace and I am also logged into the dashboard, but not the forums

Log into the dashboard and I am also logged into the marketplace, but not the forums

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If I log out of the forum and it says I am logged out, I am logged out...I cannot "relog out"

Perrie sees this, I see this and so do many others who attempt to use this forum.  It reduces the ability of SL residents to rationally present issues to Linden Lab, because with such a process, you end up (as you will have seen by my initial comment) feeling more than a little wound up!!  This is WAY beyond merely being annoying.:smileyfrustrated:

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First of all, if you want to present issues to LL, this is the wrong place. The forums are user to user, even if there are any Lindens posting here. If you want to present issues, use the support channel.

Anyway, if the page says you are logged out and you sign in again, do you need to type in your password again? If so, you are at that point logged out. If not, you can "relog out". If you really are logged out and you are logged in the next day, something is obviously very wrong. All I ment to say is you can check, check, double check if you really are logged out in the first place. This is a way to do that.

I can imagine if it takes you 8 times to log in, it also takes you 8 times to log out successfully.

By "annoying" I described how it works for me, not the situation anyone else is in. Having to double check is annoying. If you double check and you are really logged out at one point then logged in the next, that would be more than annoying of course.

I use firefox btw, if that might make a difference.

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

It's getting into the territory of legal liability if somebody were to get access to a user's account and take stuff. A court might have to decide on what the T&C clauses really mean. and there is a growing history of unauthorised access cases being a matter for US Federal law.

I'm glad I send my money to LL via Paypal. That's another layer of protection for my payment details, and the way Paypal is set up it is subject to EU laws on computer crime and financial services. From what I recall, access to the Dasgboard and Marketplacxe doesn't reveal critical details and maybe I worry too much, but they have enough detail on record to allow a lot of harm if it leaks out, and slipshod handling og logins is hardly a good sign.

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

From what I've read and experienced first hand, it's only the forum that doesn't always log you out. This can cause serious privacy issues and a potential ban from SL, but your payment in any form should be safe. Neither transactions or payment information can be accessed from the forums.

[Ayesha Askham]

Kwakkelde

Just to clarify a few points:

What I am saying is that on occasion when I try to log into this forum, I end up logged into the Help page of the main site (which I know that I am logged out of).

Subsequent attempts to log into the forum are unsuccessful if I log out of the Main site.

If I stay logged into the main site I may ultimately get logged into the forum an any of 10 subsequent attempts.  Each attempt requires me to re enter my SL login details, so what happens to those is an open guess.

Once I complete whatever task required me to be on the forum, I log out, and ensure that I am logged out also on the main site.

About one in ten attempts to log into the forums again results in me going straight to a logged in page.  This is ONLY, thankfully, true of the forum!

I raised several tickets with Linden Lab on this issue and occasionally it seems that the system is sorted out, only for the issue to return at some later date.  This is consistent with other users' experience.

Live chat are unable to offer any advice other that the universal "clear cache" advice that is on their cribsheet.

The problem never arises for some users irrespective of their browser, though it seems that Firefox has the least trouble.

Since I use Internet Exploder(sic), I guess I am asking for trouble, though if I use FF I still get problems.:smileywink:

 

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

To me it sounds very possible that even when you as a person do everything to log out of the forums, the system does not actually log you out. Again, you could check this by trying to sign in and see if you need to enter your name and password again. (Go back a page and refresh?) If the forum has trouble logging you in, it's not unlikely it has trouble logging you out.

I find that more plausible than the forums randomly logging you in between the moment you log out and want to log in the next day or so or the forum on logon fetching your details from cache instead of asking you for them. Either way, it's something that needs to be fixed of course.

[Perrie Juran]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

So again, check check double check if you are really logged out. It's annoying, but not a "showstopper".

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The show stopper is this, though it is extremely unlikely it would happen.

In a house with multiple users on a computer, because of the auto log in to Market Place, some one could make purchases accidentally or on purpose against your account and/or post something to this Forum. And the TOS says explicitly that you are responsible for any actions initiated with your account.

Along with the fact that the average person would not be expecting this (mis)behaviour.

It's poor security practices by the provider. 

There are very few services that do it but Yahoo gets a big thumbs up from me for this.

If I am logged into different aspects of Yahoo, if I go to log out of one area, I get a pop up asking me if I want to be logged out of the other areas.  **That is the way it should be done.**

[Perrie Juran]

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

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Ayesha Askham wrote:

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First of all, if you want to present issues to LL, this is the wrong place. The forums are user to user, even if there are any Lindens posting here. If you want to present issues, use the support channel.

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FYI, all this was reported by me when LL switched to Lithium using the correct channels.  It was verified and commented on by others.  It got assigned to I_Will_Work_On_It_Later_Linden

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

The fact you're not getting the information or response you'd like in the right place, doesn't mean you can expect it in the wrong place. What can I say?

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Everything you say I already covered in previous posts. I said to me it's not a big issue since I'm the only one using this computer. I also said, as far as I know, it only happens on the forum, not the marketplace. I also said that even if it happens only on the forums, there's a potential risk, being your privacy and the risk of getting banned.

If it also happens on the marketplace, it automatically happens on your dash, since those two are connected. This would be a serious risk of course and I agree that should be classified as showstopper.

BTW I totally agree that the system is far from perfect. If you ask me the web browser based functions should at least be split into forum, marketplace and dashboard. Closing the browser or even the page on one of them should log you out instantly, at least by default. Logging in to one shouldn't log you in to another and finally logging out of one shouldn't  log you out of any other.