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Mesh over rated


friscolives
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Kind of confused as to the attraction of Mesh. I just got my first outfit, took my avatar to a dance and everytime I moved one body part or another popped through--and I was wearing a alpha layer underneath!

I used to play with poser, remembering this as an issue with that too. A lot of times clothing fell victim to pop through. I'm not sure if its poor collission detection, or just a phantom type nature of the mesh, but its not an improvement.

My biggest concern now is all the mesh that seems to be flooding stores and the marketplace. Does that mean I'm going to be stuck with pop throuh from here on in?

If so, not going to be a good thing.

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I'd say you just got unlucky and bought something poorly rigged. I never have pop through, wear only mesh now, and hit dance spots often.

Try coldLogic or Fate Island - same mesh builder, first is for women, second is for men. That's some of the best mesh in SL right there. For low cost and good, try Sakide, and MAAI, and HUCCI, and JANE (Jane is right outside of coldlogic's front door).

You will need to adjust a few of your shape dials to fit:

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2012/07/01/mesh-clothes-dont-care-if-youre-tall-or-short-thick-or-thin-they-care-about-stretch/

Women:
Body Fat
Torso Muscle
Breast Size
Love Handles
Belly Size
Leg Muscle
Butt Size
Saddle Bags

Men:
Body Fat
Belly Size
Torso Muscle
Love Handles
Leg Muscle
Butt Size
Saddle Bags
Package
Pectorals

Pick one of the standard sizes, and make your dials on the numbers above fit it. These are about 'how thin or fat' you are - not height. So they work for all heights.

 

 

 

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friscolives wrote:

 

My biggest concern now is all the mesh that seems to be flooding stores and the marketplace. Does that mean I'm going to be stuck with pop throuh from here on in?

If so, not going to be a good thing.

I and many of my friends refuse to wear mesh for a variety of reasons.  Depending on who you speak to mesh is the greatest thing since sliced bread or the worst thing to hit the grid with opinions in between.

I seriously doubt non-mesh clothing is disappearing anytime soon. ;)

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I don't think that creators are going to stop creating traditional system clothes.  Yes there are merchants that do mesh exclusively but many and most of my favorite designers, are still also releasing system clothes.

IMO mesh will not be the end all and be all of clothing in SL.  There are too many drawbacks to it in some circumstances.  I wear mesh but am very picky about it.  Quality counts.  I don't like mesh for long skirts because it doesn't flow right, but reminds me of laughably of marshmallows, I still prefer flexi prims for that. It is not easy to layer mesh, such as mesh underwear, a mesh shirt, a mesh jacket as most of the time you get pop through unless the item were created to wear together. I will only make a minor tweak here or there on my shape to wear mesh.  If it requires more than a click or two on one or two sliders or makes my avatar's shape look different because of the shape of the mesh, its a deal breaker.

I also know people that are all over mesh and wear nothing else. But everyone I know like this has worn mesh outfits that look silly at least once.  Wearing mesh for mesh's sake is somewhat foolish IMO. 

Mesh to me is just another option for clothing my avatar.  I mix and match the different types, rarely do I wear all mesh.  However I know a lot of people like you that won't wear it at all and never will probably.  So there will always be a market for both mesh and non mesh clothes in the foreseeable future.

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I don't find that I "pop through" mesh clothes any more than I do through prim/sculpt clothing attachments. Animations are tricky things, and I've found that with any non-system clothing, some part of the avatar will poke through somewhere at some time during the animation. No so with system clothing, but I don't wear only system clothing because it's so limiting.


I love mesh, myself. *Good* mesh. Some of the first things that came out in mesh are, looking back a few months, not the best - it was new. I've found some great mesh items lately, though, and I love what you can do with it. More realistic folds in fabric, more realistic movement with the avatar. The downside is that, of course, it doesn't fit every shape. Mesh is, as I understand it, more difficult to create than system clothing and prim/sculpt attachments, so not as many people make it. There's another, fairly recent thread that talks about mesh possibly limiting creativity in SL - Many people are getting templates from the marketplace, texturing them, and reselling, so there are many items out there that all look the same because they use the same template.


I'm still not going to stop wearing system clothes, though, or scult/prim attachments. Easier to layer, system clothing is more fitted, and some things just work better for me in system clothing. There are creators using mesh in much the same way as scultpies - adding a mesh panel to the front of a tight skirt instead of a prim, or adding a mesh "tie" to the front of a system shirt as an accent. Those are some of my favorite pieces. I agree with the poster who said she doesn't care for long skirts in mesh, because most of them do look rather marshmallow-y. There will probably always be a place for system clothing and scultpies and flexis.

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Maitreya is also another store that sells good mesh. I think people who go the the extremes with wearing mesh (i.e. wear ONLY mesh or NEVER wear mesh) are silly. Mesh gives you yet another option to style your avatar.

I do dislike all of the template mesh....not so much because it's template but that the designers don't seem to know how to use alphas to make the mesh look right, nor know how to rig it properly. I wear a S/M, and when I see gaps in mesh at a L or even XL size, something is wrong. Also, when I have to change the value of sliders that should not matter  when it comes to mesh clothing, something is wrong. This gives mesh a bad name because people won't go to the stores that have mesh clothing at 300-400L, they will go to the cheaper stores. Then when they see nothing fits, they denounce mesh entirely.

I had a friend who didn't like mesh and after taking her to a good store she could fit into a medium with minor tweaking of the slider. So OP maybe that's what you need to do too?

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I completelly agree Mesh is over rated, Customers have asked me if im going to update my caps to be Mesh to which i reply there really is no reason to do so, Certain objects such as pants, shirts etc, are definetly worth doing in mesh though.

Little of topic but ive noticed people making Rigged  Mesh items, such as a Watch or something attached to the lower part of a leg, Which makes no sense to me, Why make an item Rigged and prety much just remove the ability to resize such item if it doesn't really need to be "Rigged" (it will never move with the actual skeleton or need to be bended)

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Feet and shoes attach to the foot, or lower leg - good example of something down there you -DO- want to rig so it bends with animations that bend the feet (like dancing or... walking).

Mesh loads faster and renders sharper - so I would and have replaced sculpty or prim hats with mesh ones the moment I've noticed them. There is no texture blur at edges, or curviness to the model in spots that should be sharp.

Refusing to adopt mesh is like refusing to adopt sculpty back in the day... Its a normal thing, and it makes one look silly when they intentionally avoid it.

 

I can't think of any piece of clothing that looks better as body paint that it would with 3D-dimensionality to it. System clothes might not go away, but they already look pretty dated. Especially as with people not in the focus of a camera, in a crowded area they will often blur, whereas mesh and sometimes sculpty will retain their shape. Something that might get fixed soon when they change how textures render to no longer be local - though I'm not certain.

 

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Fabiano Viper wrote:

I completelly agree Mesh is over rated, Customers have asked me if im going to update my caps to be Mesh to which i reply there really is no reason to do so, Certain objects such as pants, shirts etc, are definetly worth doing in mesh though.

 

Since mesh is, as others have stated, another option for clothing one's avatar it is prudent for designers to offer some mesh or a lot of mesh, etc. but I agree with the above completely.  What is really sad, imo, are some designers who have gone to *only* selling mesh clothes.  One of my favorite designers of 1940's vintage clothing has gone to 100% mesh.  I left a note in her guestbook that she just lost a customer.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Refusing to adopt mesh is like refusing to adopt sculpty back in the day... Its a normal thing, and it makes one look silly when they intentionally avoid it.

 

Though I'm a mesh maker myself and I see many advantages in using mesh, I don't agree with your statement. There are people who are very skilled with prims and still enjoy very much to build with them. Why is that silly?

I do consider building with prims as an art on its own. I see it more as a difference between painting and photography. A photo is a more detailed, realistic image of a landscape or a persons portrait then a painting. A painter who uses paint to create a landscape or a portait is not silly or walking on a dead path, by chosing the medium he likes to express himself.

However when you are in the commercial field, where it is all about qualtiy, prim count and price, you must conclude that mesh is hard to beat on prim count. Depending on what segment of the market you are active in, mesh should be a consideration for your business.

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Customers asked me over a year ago if I intended to create only mesh from then on. I said yes. Once someone has begun creating in mesh, it is unlikely he will want to stop.  It is like once you have discovered Legos, you don't want to go back to Tinkertoys.  I may have lost some customers -- although I still have four sims of mostly non mesh content -- but that's okay because my goal is to make the most beautiful content I am capable of, and for me that means mesh.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Feet and shoes attach to the foot, or lower leg - good example of something down there you -DO- want to rig so it bends with animations that bend the feet (like dancing or... walking).

Mesh loads faster and renders sharper - so I would and have replaced sculpty or prim hats with mesh ones the moment I've noticed them. There is no texture blur at edges, or curviness to the model in spots that should be sharp.

Refusing to adopt mesh is like refusing to adopt sculpty back in the day... Its a normal thing, and it makes one look silly when they intentionally avoid it.

 

I can't think of any piece of clothing that looks better as body paint that it would with 3D-dimensionality to it. System clothes might not go away, but they already look pretty dated. Especially as with people not in the focus of a camera, in a crowded area they will often blur, whereas mesh and sometimes sculpty will retain their shape. Something that might get fixed soon when they change how textures render to no longer be local - though I'm not certain.

 

 

Adopting any technology just because it is the 'new' thing is also silly.  People adopt it when in their opinion it does the job better than the 'old' technology.  Obviously there is disagreement over if mesh is truly better for all clothes, which in the opinion of a good number of the posters here as well as many SL residents it is not.  Some don't like it at all and some only like it for some things.  People in SL dress their avatars in what they think looks the best, as is their right.  Saying that system clothes now look outdated is only your opinion and one that is not shared by many.

Perhaps as designers get better at mesh it will be better for more and more clothes, but it isn't there yet and I doubt that it will ever replace everything else until the physics engine is improved so that mesh fabric flows and acts like RL fabric. There are physics engines out there that do a much better job at this than the one we have. I've seen some demos of them that are truly amazing.  You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between how mesh fabric behaves vs. RL fabric.

The focus problem with system clothing textures an avatar is wearing will apparently be much better, if not entirely eliminated, once the rendering is handled server side rather than in the client as it is now.  Mesh has rendering problems too.  I run a computer that is fully capable of rendering mesh and a mesh viewer. My internet connection is rated way above average too on every test I've run on it.  Still there are times that mesh doesn't render for me. 

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Feet and shoes attach to the foot, or lower leg - good example of something down there you -DO- want to rig so it bends with animations that bend the feet (like dancing or... walking).

Mesh loads faster and renders sharper - so I would and have replaced sculpty or prim hats with mesh ones the moment I've noticed them. There is no texture blur at edges, or curviness to the model in spots that should be sharp.

Refusing to adopt mesh is like refusing to adopt sculpty back in the day... Its a normal thing, and it makes one look silly when they intentionally avoid it.

 

I can't think of any piece of clothing that looks better as body paint that it would with 3D-dimensionality to it. System clothes might not go away, but they already look pretty dated. Especially as with people not in the focus of a camera, in a crowded area they will often blur, whereas mesh and sometimes sculpty will retain their shape. Something that might get fixed soon when they change how textures render to no longer be local - though I'm not certain.

 

 

Adopting any technology just because it is the 'new' thing is also silly. 
People adopt it when in their opinion it does the job better than the 'old' technology.
  Obviously there is disagreement over if mesh is truly better for all clothes, which in the opinion of a good number of the posters here as well as many SL residents it is not.  Some don't like it at all and some only like it for some things.  People in SL dress their avatars in what they think looks the best, as is their right.  Saying that system clothes now look outdated is only your opinion and one that is not shared by many.

Perhaps as designers get better at mesh it will be better for more and more clothes, but it isn't there yet and I doubt that it will ever replace everything else until the physics engine is improved so that mesh fabric flows and acts like RL fabric. There are physics engines out there that do a much better job at this than the one we have. I've seen some demos of them that are truly amazing.  You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between how mesh fabric behaves vs. RL fabric.

The focus problem with system clothing textures an avatar is wearing will apparently be much better, if not entirely eliminated, once the rendering is handled server side rather than in the client as it is now.  Mesh has rendering problems too.  I run a computer that is fully capable of rendering mesh and a mesh viewer. My internet connection is rated way above average too on every test I've run on it.  Still there are times that mesh doesn't render for me. 

"People adopt it when in their opinion it does the job better than the 'old' technology."

Maybe in some cases.

In the case of Mesh Clothes, for many I am seeing it is because they can claim being Cool.  Or peer pressure.

The little advantage I see from Mesh Clothes not moving through a body is offset by what someone else called the Marshmallow effect.  And Mesh Hair..............looks like play dough.  Yuch.

Now the Mesh Buildings I am seeing..that is a different story.  Some of the builders have started to do some awesome things with it.

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I've started building some of my store pieces in mesh but when it comes to clothes, no I don't wear any. Something in my house or for sale, sure why not, even if some people can't see it that's ok. But when it comes to my avatar and how I am seen, I don't want to walk around looking like I have surfboards sticking out of my chest because someone can't view mesh. I'd rather continue wearing what everyone can see, instead of what many still can't see. I did get a couple of hair pieces though that I sometimes wear but I don't wear it when I leave my sim. In time, i think I will start wearing mesh, I'm not against it and will be happy when it's more widely adopted, but until everyone can see it, I will be sticking to system items on my avatar for most of the time.

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If/when we see rigged animals and items animated you will see the power of mesh.

To say it is overated is not entirely fair because anyone could have made the same mess with scupts and some things where not capable with sculpts that are capable with mesh.

Now, with normal maps comping out....if they could have allowed some normal map/sculpt combo to help detail out the sculpts and handle the wobbles....but, I mean....sculpties sort of where normal maps! So, mesh was where low polygon (higher performance), riggability (even staqnd alone with a set of animal or mechanical rigs...uh, like a hinge and a 4 legged animal that is resizable and you add that rig to your mesh to make a barn door or a horse)  so....well, yeah....you get the idea already. It does more, but you are right in that they fail.

I think contacting the owner may help. Sending a few images will help them as well. They may not have tried the same dances or didn't notice the alpha layers etc. They will learn from feedback, hopefully. Speaking of which, I need to go back to improving my stuff. I have yet to adapt it for a long time...or maybe not, it still works...soo...yeah, who cares. Sadly, this may be the same feeling of the person who makes you stuff! Not that they don't want you to have fun, but ther are so many glitches, lag and sort of general feeing of "wow, it is amazing I can do anything right now...it was so bad before!" that things seem to reallytake a back seat (more like stuck in a corner of the trunk with old gym bag from when quiting workout....even though working out is starting again and the bag is like forgotten about anyway) and...yeah, SL is nto first...sad for some. I dont' get to go anywhere sometimes, so it is nice to explore and play with stuff in SL....if I can move even....I really should get a new pc.

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