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I have never seen any rigged mesh belts, why? D;


Jade Nova
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So far since mesh was introduced, I have yet to see a single rigged mesh belt. Is there any reason for this or am I just not finding the ones that exist? I have been looking for one for a long time because 99% of the belts I have purchased are far too large on my avatar. Like, they'll fit fine around the hips but when I turn my camera to the side to look at a profile view of my avatars torso, there is a TON of room in the front and back and it makes it look really awkward. =/ The only belt I have ever found that fits my avatar properly is the NAU combat belt by The Abyss (which I love, but it doesn't go with everything).

Does anyone know of any rigged mesh belts out there, or are they just not being created, and if it's the latter, why the hell not? lol

Edit: just for further clarification, I do mean RIGGED mesh belts. I have seen plenty of mesh belts, but none rigged.

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Because a rigged mesh belt would be pointless. Hell the only reason to make a mesh belt at all would be to make it far more descriptive, a 3D object with more vertices than a standard sculpty. 

I don't believe you understand how rigged mesh works. Rigged mesh is made to bind, or rig, to parts of the SL avatar's skeleton so as to move naturally when the rigged body parts move. A belt sits on the pelvis and it is unnecessary to make it bend and move with the avatar as actual belts do not. Furthermore mesh cannot be modified on your avatar to fit you any better than a standard prim or sculpty belt. The only way to get a belt to fit perfectly would be to make one specifically for your own avatar. Because avatars come in so many shapes and sizes it is impossible to make one belt that fits all...

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Excuse my ignorance please.  Let me rephrase Jade's question.  Jade, I hope you don't think that I'm too presumptuous.

What do we have to do to get a well-fitting belt?  The prim belts suck.  We adjust and adjust, and they still don't fit because they are not  shaped like our bodies and they are rigid.  What does it take to get a belt that firs?  Does it take something that is not yet available in SL?

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mew mew ma mew :matte-motes-asleep:

 

I have perfect fitting belts, there part of the mesh outfit. Thats the best way. You cant use the belt seperately but thats ok.

 

I believe you can make a seperate mesh belt far better than any sculpted belt. I have seen plenty of sculpted belts, and if they dont fit they do not adjust very well at all.  Of course if you dont make it your self to fit you exact shape, then it will be in the standard sizing plus or minus the errors lower end designers make when using standard sizing.

 

 

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Hello, because as Drakkarm stated there is no use/benefit.

Unrigged mesh, sculpties, prims are basically all the same thing just the way they are made differs.

Rigged mesh only has one benefit - it moves with the parts of a body nothing more nothing less.

How something fits is not related to rigged or unrigged.

The drawback on rigged mesh (belts) would be that you cannot adjust the position or size so, if they don´t fit they don´t fit.

There are some belts,  diagonal worn ..., rigged mesh would make sense but else prefer the unrigged and try to adjust.

Monti

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Why would it be pointless? I do understand how rigged mesh works, and I would make them myself if I knew how to use Blender (my college major focuses on Maya and zbrush and to my knowledge most designers here use blender for mesh items).

The belt could be made I think, if it was rigged to part of the body that wouldn't warp it (I think the pelvis would be fine, but I'm not familiar with how the SL avatar is rigged since I do not have the files for it). It would really be nice to be able to have one that scaled with my avatars body shape since prim belts 99% of the time completely suck. 

Would it not be possible for a designer to make ones in standard sizing just like other clothing? The same problem regarding avatars coming in so many shapes and sizes already applies to every already-existing mesh item, since sizes can vary from designer to designer and they don't fit everyone so why would it be less of a benefit for a belt as opposed to a pair of shorts or a skirt?

 

@Monti: Rigged and unrigged items do actually fit differently. A rigged belt would scale to my avatars hip width where an unrigged one wouldn't. And rigged hair scales to head size, whereas unrigged doesn't.

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I actaully quite like prim belts. They can be tricky to fit, but I've found that with the right belt, if it has a good resizer, I can get it to fit without too much trouble. My favorite is the belt I have with a resizer that allows for individual adjustments on all axes - so if it's too wide around the hips but just right at the belly, I can adjust the X axis without messing with any of the others, and vice versa. I think I would miss the ability to resize my belts.


Also, while the belt may adjust for hip width, I personally rarely wear a belt that is at my hips. Belts generally, though not always, fall a bit above the hips, not around the widest part of them, which unless I am mistaken means that a rigged mesh belt would not be able to adjust corrently. Mesh does not adjust for belly or love handles or saddle bags or butt size, all factors that effect mesh fitting. Without the mesh deformer, which we of course don't have yet, the belt still would not scale with your shape.


It would certainly be possible for a belt to be made in the same standard sizes as other clothing, but the same problems also apply. It might be worth it, for some, but I find prim belts to be more efficient for this, personally.

I did a marketplace search for belts, using the keyword "mesh." Several came back, many of them unrigged; but there's https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/OW-Raptor2-Mesh-Belt-DEMO/3452709, which is rigged and available in a free demo.

 

 

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Jade Glazner wrote:

Why would it be pointless? I do understand how rigged mesh works, and I would make them myself if I knew how to use Blender (my college major focuses on Maya and zbrush and to my knowledge most designers here use blender for mesh items).

I think Blender's popularity among makers of mesh items in SL has more to do with the fact it's free than anything else.

There's nothing to stop you using either Maya or Zbrush to create meshes for SL.   There's a tutorial here about how to export them from Maya, and it looks as if a Zbrush one is in preparation.   Certainly a friend of mine uses Zbrush for her meshes.

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@Ariel: True, I didn't think about the placement of it being an issue. I always just adjust mine to be at the top of whatever pants I am wearing. I do love the resize scripts that allow it to be scaled on each axis individually but I rarely run into belts with them. =/ Any suggestions on where to get some nice ones with that kind of script?

 

@Innula: Oh true. I'll definitely have to look into exporting it from maya. Thanks for the link! I can't wait until the zbrush one is done. Zbrush is so much fun. 

Edit: holy crap that is an uber old version of maya, LOL. 

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@Jade: Actually it only scales with certain appearance functions and even then it isn't 100% effective. For instance ass size and saddlebags do not adjust it, in fact only hip width and avatar width would have any effect for a belt. Then you have to think there are tons of pants out there and you would not be able to move it up and down to fit the waist of high cut and low cut pants. The ONLY use of rigged mesh is to make an object move based on avatar movement. Belts do not move unless they are maybe an old cowboy gun belt for example, where the belt hangs partway down the thigh, then it would make sense. Normal mesh however would be a good idea because you could adjust the width, height, and base as if it were one prim. This would make it easy to fit to different avatars. So basic Mesh, good idea, rigged mesh, bad idea.

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I have a fatpack from Lapointe and Bastchild with "EZ Fit" scripts that do this. I think they're very nice, and I love the fit script. I wish I had it in everything; it makes things so much easier! I bought it some time ago, but it's still available; I did a search in the marketplace for them and found the belts I have.

 

 

 

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As several replies have noted, rigging is not going to be much of an advantage for a belt.  

But making belts using mesh as a regular attachment, instead of prims or sculties, has advantages.  I haven't seen any for sale, but I've made a couple for my own use.

You can get all the fine detail you want onto a single mesh item.  Since its all on one mesh, it can be resized independently in x, y, or z.  With belts made of several linked prims/sculpts, you can only change the overall size, not the shape.  

With a little care in designing it, a mesh belt can shrink down to fit the smallest avatars, even the tiny mesh avatars that have been popping up.  I've had to throw away too many mesh/sculpt that would not shrink far enough to fit my avatar.  

And you also avoid the problem of LOD scaling with sculpties.  Mesh can be designed so you don't have to rely on someone cranking up the LOD factor on thier viewer to see it properly.

And for what its worth, its lower lag.  If I rezz one of my old belts on the ground, LI runs 50 - 100.  My mesh belts have LI of 3 or 4.  So they put less load on the server, and allow me to feel virtuous.

 

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Drakkarn Reddevil wrote:

Because a rigged mesh belt would be pointless. Hell the only reason to make a mesh belt at all would be to make it far more descriptive, a 3D object with more vertices than a standard sculpty.

Sculpty are unkind to system and network resources in SL. So this should actually be in reverse - you should -ALWAYS- make your object with mesh unless you need to use sculpty to save on 'land impact cost'. But noting that the 'true cost' of a sculpty in terms of the load it puts on SL and viewers is always greater than that of mesh or prims.

That said, yeah - rigged mesh belts are not so key. Basic mesh is usually just fine, unless the belt is in a location that bends, and this bend's specific situation is not suitable for a flexi prim.

 

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Jennifer Boyle wrote:

Excuse my ignorance please.  Let me rephrase Jade's question.  Jade, I hope you don't think that I'm too presumptuous.

What do we have to do to get a well-fitting belt?  The prim belts suck.  We adjust and adjust, and they still don't fit because they are not  shaped like our bodies and they are rigid.  What does it take to get a belt that firs?  Does it take something that is not yet available in SL?

Either:

1. Buy a belt already to size.

2. Edit the individual prims of the belt so you can stretch individual axis (stretching X without stretching Y), and get lucky...

 

Rigged mesh itself is not enough, though it could help, it would ONLY help if it also matched your shape on these values:

Women:

Body Fat

Torso Muscle

Breast Size

Love Handles

Belly Size

Leg Muscle

Butt Size

Saddle Bags

Men:

Body Fat

Belly Size

Torso Muscle

Love Handles

Leg Muscle

Butt Size

Saddle Bags

Package

Pectorals

(see: http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2012/07/01/mesh-clothes-dont-care-if-youre-tall-or-short-thick-or-thin-they-care-about-stretch/ )

- Which is what the standard sizes program is all about. So in this regard...

Let me go against what I just wrote in my last post...

Rigged mesh standard size belts -WOULD- be a good idea.

 

PS: I -HAVE- seen a number of mesh belts for sale. I have not checked to see if they were rigged or not. I -did- get one as a fused in piece of a pair of jeans I bought recently, but that doesn't count.

 

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Rhys Goode wrote:

 

With belts made of several linked prims/sculpts, you can only change the overall size, not the shape.  

 

 

Actually this is not true except for a no mod belt with a resize script in it.  If you buy belts you can mod you can edit each prim on each axis using the edit tools to get a perfect fit.  I only buy mod belts for this reason. 

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If I were to resize every individual piece of a sculpted belt to be able to scale it in one direction, I would pretty much be remaking the entire thing myself with their parts, especially if it's something like a studded belt that has about a hundred little individual sculpted studs around the entire belt. ;o I would have to move all of those individually to fit the new size and if I had the patience for that I would just make my own belt entirely lol. 

If a belt is modify, wouldn't it be possible for me to buy one of those EZ-resize scripts that scale in all directions individually and just put it inside the belt? Or does it not work that easily? (I have very little experience with scripts on SL)

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If the skirt is modifyable, you should be able to add a resize script....notice I said "should".  Without trying it, I can't say it "will" accept a script.    The script I use is not very expensive and is available on Marketplace https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/zED-SingleMultiprim-Resize-Script/2172518 The one issue you may have resizing any item is it  may not have the ability to become smaller if the smallest prim is already at the smallest size it will go. A resize script will fail if the smallest prim is at it minimum limit.  

Like someone said earlier, it is difficult to create belts and waist attachments and has been for years, regardless if it is prim, sculpt or mesh based.   It is not the technology per se or,  the creators it is our AVs where the issues some in.  What is perfect for some people will never ever work well for others.  I been trying for years to find belts or belly chains to fit well and I refuse to change my shape to fit someone's clothes.  My solution was to create specifically for my AV.

It would be a creator's dream if we were all stuck with standard size tummies, waists and hips.  Creating accessories to fit would be easy if that were the case.

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