So Linden Lab Wants Us All To Be Naked?

[161488303349]

can agree with what you say as well

+

i also agree with Penny when she chat about psychological aspects

like with the measure ruler in the shape editor

putting a ruler in there was pretty good bc people specially new people use that when they make their shape the first time. can see them do. like they go into edit and do the starfish and almost everytime the first thing that happens is their starter avatar shrinks

the psychological part is 5ft 2 inches and 5ft 10 inches for women. for men is even narrower. under 6ft tall

very rarely will a new person go above/below those limits

lthe biggest psychological restraint I think is the lower limit combined with the inaccuracy between the shape ruler and the prim ruler

if you make 5ft 2in by the prim ruler then it says you under 5ft on the shape ruler. so that messes people up in the head who want a adult size shape within the majority mainstream general boundaries. edit: so they make the height by the shape ruler and not the prim ruler bc of how that works in your brain

so linden should fix that. cant be all that hard bc the shape ruler just use bounding box I think which only comes up to your eye level. so they can mod and multiply BB x 1.15 or about to display the shape ruler value. wont be exactly right but will be way more closer to exactly right than it is now

is a tiny little thing this. but will have more affect on making SL more proportional than pretty much any other single one thing. I think

 

   

 

[Penny Patton]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

But some things they may not have seen the long term impact.  An example being the base or center-line for Avatar height.  Other things could have been stricter controls on texture uploads and other creative tools and practices.  But the downside to this would have been restrictive to growth.  The free hand people had encouraged people to experiment,  It encouraged people to create content.  It helped to make SL a welcome place to be.

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 Guiding better content creation need not mean being so restrictive that it prevents people from experimenting or creating content.

 Reasonable restrictions on script use, including texture use into LI calculations, providing more realistically sized starter avatars all would have helped encourage better content creation habits and not prevented anyone from experiementing or trying to build in SL, especially if LL learned to lead by example, providing informative tutorials people could try out, and some better UI decisions with the tools.

 You're right that there's no overnight way to fix these mistakes, however unless LL intends to shutter their doors tomorrow there's no reason for them not to start taking steps towards long term improvement now.

One of the articles 16 linked to is part of a series I wrote exploring how best LL could do exactly that.

 

 There are things we content creators in the community can do, too by building more efficiently and encouraging better building and buying habits in others. Like using smaller texture maps and creating more realistically scaled content. There's plenty of sims and shops now which prove these things can be done without losing customers or visitors, while also demonstrating the benefits of doing so.

[Perrie Juran]

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Penny Patton wrote:

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 You're right that there's no overnight way to fix these mistakes, however unless LL intends to shutter their doors tomorrow there's no reason for them not to start taking steps towards long term improvement now.

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Either they are ignoring or failing to see the long term benefits (and $ profit $) of this as well as other issues many people keep bringing up OR their assessment is that it would be counter productive and less profitable to make these changes.

[161488303349]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Well as long as you finally listen to one of us...

 

 

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q; (:

am a bit slow sometimes me (:

am not ashamed to say if i dont know or change my mind if i learn something off someone else

like sometimes i will say something to someone and then next day say the complete opposite. and they go wut wut you said !!!!

and i say yes but i learn something since yesterday and they go wut wut wut wut even more. and they moan and say how can they beat me if i keep change my mind. and i go thats why i beat them more and am the winner more times than them

and they say it dont work like that and i say does so. welcome to the new interwebz ways  jejejejejje (:

 

[Perrie Juran]

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16 wrote:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Well as long as you finally listen to one of us...

 

 

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q; (:

am a bit slow sometimes me (:

am not ashamed to say if i dont know or change my mind if i learn something off someone else

like sometimes i will say something to someone and then next day say the complete opposite. and they go wut wut you said !!!!

and i say yes but i learn something since yesterday and they go wut wut wut wut even more. and they moan and say how can they beat me if i keep change my mind. and i go thats why i beat them more and am the winner more times than them

and they say it dont work like that and i say does so. welcome to the new interwebz ways  jejejejejje (:

 

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your poor boyfriend! 

i've gone through this.

painted the same room three times in a week

she asked for a fourth.

my response?

now the room has four walls...............each a different color.

unless she suckered her new boy friend in to painting it again.

[Penny Patton]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Either they are ignoring or failing to see the long term benefits (and $ profit $) of this as well as other issues many people keep bringing up OR their assessment is that it would be counter productive and less profitable to make these changes.

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My understanding has always been that LL lacks design professionals working on SL. They'll hire graphic designers for the website, they'll contract members of the community to create starter avatars and infohubs, but they don't have anything resembling an art director in charge of SL's visuals and content creation tools.

 That means they have absolutely no professional expertise in that area of their own product, which is pretty absurd considering what a huge part of SL that covers, from the content creation tools to their ability to properly market SL.

 

 To be fair, they could also stand to hire some social experts who understand how to bring people and content together by improving groups, profiles, events, etcetera.

[Penny Patton]

Speaking of showcasing benefits, 1920's Berlin is having an open house tonight. Normally they only let in people who are realistically sized and wearing period clothing, but every once in a while, like tonight, they have an open house where anyone can visit.

 

The city itself is a single sim, but because it's built to actual scale it feels much larger. This also means you feel like you can see further even with your draw distance set low, and draw distance is usually one of the bigger performance obstacles for many people.

 

Of course, at the moment the city is completely underwater. So you may wish to wear rubber boots.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

The reason the 'hair' argument comes up is because of scripted hair. Not just hair by itself.

 

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I was talking about a few years ago when the ARC police were in force and what I kept reading on the forums as well as from the instructor of the class I referenced was that flexi-prims added to the ARC, which is likely true but, after taking the class on script usage, I realize flexi's weren't the "evil" they were made out to be back then. (Nor was ARC an accurate standard for adding to lag.) So it was flexi-hair to which I was referring but didn't clarify. :matte-motes-bashful-cute:

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

All of this talk of Arc etc, has me wondering how mesh outfits measure up on this new system. I know they are less resource hogging than sculpty, and less than some kinds of prims (like a torrus). But no idea how they'd measure on this new scale.

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The only thing I've heard about mesh, since I can't currently test it out myself, was from the hostess of a well-known jazz club.  She said she often has to turn off mesh on her viewer if lag gets especially bad, but I don't know if that's client side or server side lag.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

 

...but content providers in SL are a lot more script conscious than they used to be; so newer goods tend to be less lag-inducing. Especially when from more informed and connected builders. There are some major brands run by pure idiots... but they're more an exception than a rule.

 

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Totally agree.  I know for myself, even though my building is on a very small scale, I have learned so much the last couple of years that has made my building MUCH more efficient.  As another poster mentioned textures is a biggie for me, meaning to use the smallest size texture possible to gain the appropriate results.  All of the textures on my vendors are 256x256 and that size works for much of what I create.

 

 

 

 

[Melita Magic]

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Syo Emerald wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Syo Emerald wrote:

The really sad thing is (when it comes to furries and being naked) that most nude beaches are human-only. I'm not even sure if I can visit them as an elf....

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Waidaminut!!!!!!!  Nude beaches ie. "clothing optional" won't allow furries or elves???

/face palms

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Nude beaches belong to a typical group of places which decorate their entrance with signs like "Human avatars only", but without any real obivous reason, like roleplaysims would have.

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If I had to guess the reason I would guess for human only at nude beaches would be 'reason of pick up' or what they or (they think) their guests want to choose from to flirt with or pick up or look at. What turns them on vs. what does not.

I would guess that is why no non humans on nude beaches but then I haven't been to one since my noob days when I tried to look everywhere out of curiosity Lol.

[Paul Hexem]

Penny is right about one thing. LL are a bunch of morons (my words, not hers).

Nothing blows my mind more than seeing SL servers grind to a halt and crash when there are 30 people standing still on them, yet we see 60-80 players on servers in multiplayer games that not only don't crash, but allow you to run around, drive vehicles, destroy the environment dynamically, and have fully operational physics engines...

Overall, it's just a bad system, and as soon as you add ever changing custom, user created content to it, it gets worse.

[Charolotte Caxton]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Penny is right about one thing. LL are a bunch of morons (my words, not hers).

Nothing blows my mind more than seeing SL servers grind to a halt and crash when there are 30 people standing still on them, yet we see 60-80 players on servers in multiplayer games that not only don't crash, but allow you to run around, drive vehicles, destroy the environment dynamically, and have fully operational physics engines...

Overall, it's just a bad system, and as soon as you add ever changing custom, user created content to it, it gets worse.

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Do those games let you create whatever you want?

[Paul Hexem]

That has nothing to do with it. At least, nothing to do with that particular complaint.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Has everything to do with it. Of course in a game where everything is prebuilt and limited to a certain amount of info are you going to get excellent performance.

[Paul Hexem]

No, in this case I'm talking about server stability and the physics engine, not asset downloading or client side performance.

[Porky Gorky]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

Penny is right about one thing. LL are a bunch of morons (my words, not hers).

Nothing blows my mind more than seeing SL servers grind to a halt and crash when there are 30 people standing still on them, yet we see 60-80 players on servers in multiplayer games that not only don't crash, but allow you to run around, drive vehicles, destroy the environment dynamically, and have fully operational physics engines...

Overall, it's just a bad system, and as soon as you add ever changing custom, user created content to it, it gets worse.

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The reason there are allot more users on other MMO servers is because all the content in other games is designed and optimized by professionals. The very nature of SL requires that the users, mainly non professional designers, create all the content. 

That's is the experience that LL sells with SL. The obvious result of this is that you end up with allot of content that is not optimized for a gaming environment which results in lag and performance degradation for anyone rendering said content.

This does not mean that LL are morons. It just means that the majority of content creators are amateurs. 

We can't have it both ways. SL either needs to a virtual world where all content is created by pro's to maximise server performance. Or it needs to be a virtual world where all content is created by the users at the expense of server performance.

[Charolotte Caxton]

What is your solution?

[Paul Hexem]

If I had a good one that wasn't "get better servers and a real physics engine like the Unreal one" which is just basically throwing money at the problem, I'd be working for Microsoft or something.

[Charolotte Caxton]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

If I had a good one that wasn't "get better servers and a real physics engine like the Unreal one" which is just basically throwing money at the problem, I'd be working for Microsoft or something.

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So you are complaining about something you yourself can't fix? And Linden Lab is the moron why?

[Paul Hexem]

I don't have to fix it. It's not my job to fix it. What if you went to your car mechanic complaining about your brakes squealing and he told you to STFU unless you can fix it yourself?

 

LL is providing the service, their IT people and software engineers should be working on it.

 

If LL would like to start sending me a paycheck, I'd be happy to research the options and try to help to optimize the service.

[Charolotte Caxton]

Working on what? Enabling every customer to create anything they want?

[Pamela Galli]

The scale issue is becoming moot for me.  All of my mesh houses and most of my non-mesh ones can easily be stretched larger or smaller to fit an avi's scale. This is because most houses can be one object now that linking rules have changed. The same with most furniture. Too big? Shrink it. You can easily adjust the sits to your avi. 

 

I have sent out Penny's instructions for changing the default camera to my group, and I will do so again soon. But like Porky, I have to build to the default, and that means the camera position.

[Dillon Levenque]

I finally had some time to look at a couple of things and reply to the original intent here. I was putting together an outfit for an event that will probably be laggy, and wanted to see what my Render Weight looked like.

This is a slightly pruned version of something I've worn before. Top and pants. NO shoes. No mesh/prim feet either. I know—eewww.Hair (flowers in same), necklace, earrings, bracelet. I stepped on my script/memory scale and woohoo: nine scripts, 192KB memory! I figured I'd be way under the limit for Render Weight, but no! Red Zone Dillon: 44,770. For the record I found that taking off my earrings, which are not only rather gaudy but completely invisible with this hair unless a tornado happens, dropped me into the Yellow at about 35,000. But screw that. They belong with this outfit and I intend to wear them.

Perrie, I believe your premise is exactly right. I think the whole current color coding system is bogus. I wish I still had an old original V1 viewer I could load up and check with this same outfit. I bet my ARC number would be green as grass.

 

ETA: Just realized posting this now exposes me as someone with nothing better to do on New Year's Eve than work on an outfit. Countin' flowers on the wall, that don't bother me at all. Besides, it's still more than four hours to midnight where I am.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

 

Perrie, I believe your premise is exactly right. I think the whole current color coding system is bogus. I wish I still had an old original V1 viewer I could load up and check with this same outfit. I bet my ARC number would be green as grass.

 

ETA: Just realized posting this now exposes me as someone with nothing better to do on New Year's Eve than work on an outfit. Countin' flowers on the wall, that don't bother me at all. Besides, it's still more than four hours to midnight where I am.

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We can meet up and I can tell you what your ARC is Dillon, since I still have a v1 viewer.

I watched TV all night (great episodes of Criminal Minds and a movie) - I considered it a great New Year's Eve as compared to staying away from drunks on the road.

[SinfulPrince]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 ......equivelant of saying you can't look decent without overloading the system.  And that is just plain bull dinkey.

 

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But is it? Hasn't the percentage of people complaining about lag increased? Or are just me and mine the only ones feeling a lag more than we have previously? And I'm not saying stripping people of their accessories is the route, I'm askin WHY  sl doesn't seem able to handle very much?

[Czari Zenovka]

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SinfulPrince wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 ......equivelant of saying you can't look decent without overloading the system.  And that is just plain bull dinkey.

 

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But is it? Hasn't the percentage of people complaining about lag increased? Or are just me and mine the only ones feeling a lag more than we have previously? And I'm not saying stripping people of their accessories is the route, I'm askin WHY  sl doesn't seem able to handle very much?

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People were complaining about lag in 2007.  I personally don't experience any more or less lag, in general, than I did back then and on the same PC.  But I do agree that the SL platform itself wasn't built as streamlined as it could have been...but for its time was groundbreaking technology, which has been discussed at length earlier in the thread so won't go into it again.