Protected Land

Knowl Paine · December 21, 2012

I see many Land Sales Ad's, that describe the Land as "Protected".

In Covenant, and in action, Linden Lab, has made no expressed, or implied warranties, or claims, that Linden Land, will remain Protected, undeveloped, and or, adjacent to any other Region.

It is all of the little things, that make up corruption.

I do not like Linden Lab's fence sitting position. Choose a side, and stick to your guns. Make Covenant on your Land, or, Remove the word "Protected" from all Linden Land Holdings, with the word "Protected", in the land description field. You are misleading people. Is the name of the Land "protected"? Do you really expect me to believe that? A Linden comment in the Land Description field, is Not a Covenant.

I suggest, advertising Land Sales as: "Currently Protected". We wouldn't want to mislead people who are new to SL.

Feeding on the New Fish, is one of the major problems in SL. We don't even let them grow, they are consumed as soon as they hit the water.

What do you think?

Qie Niangao · December 21, 2012

Although the Lindens can re-purpose "Protected" land, it's very rare.

It would be misleading if the ads said that the land was "protected forever" but in common parlance, "protected" doesn't imply a perpetual state. I think we apply that extra semantics ourselves, based on long experience in SL that Protected Land stays Linden-owned in perpetuity--usually.

If newbies are mislead about the meaning of "Protected", it seems to me they got lead astray by something other than the word itself.

Amethyst Jetaime · December 21, 2012

In the knowledge base article on protected land LL actually says that the term is deprecated terminology, i.e. should be avoided. However it is not clear what term should be used instead except to describe it as geographical features with the mission of creating and preserving "natural beauty."

Newbs probably have no idea what 'protected' land really means in describing mainland and hopefully they would look it up in the knowledge base if it is important to them and see there is no guarantee or ask live chat.

Probably "currently protected" is a better term to use for clarity, but it is sort of a non issue as LL uses it themselves despite what their own article says about its use

When buying land in SL, just as in RL, it is the buyers responsiblity to verify any claims made by the seller..

Knowl Paine · December 21, 2012

As an avid Map viewer, words cannot fully express the pain, of hundreds of unspoken voices, whose former places of residence in SL, were on a Mainland Shoreline.

Formerly "Protected Land", has been haphazardly replaced, with a dysfunctional, incongruous mass of lag, called a Region. It is more likely, than it is not, that the person who did that, no longer works here. They never even owned land in the first place. I have no idea why they were allowed to place Regions on the map; what do they know about SL?

Entire Regions, abandoned, because (1) 16 sqm plot is set for sale at 999,999 L$. We had someone who was going to pay the Tier for the Entire Region, but we can't. Bozo, is somehow entitled to his 999,999 L$ for his 16M.

Take that land by Eminent Domain, in the "best interest of SL" (TOS).

The full meaning, and it implications, are not commonly understood.

Articles in the Terms of Service, in section 11, would supersede any Inworld Covenant, without regard of who drafted the Covenant.

For your statement to be entirely true, all Residents would need to possess a complete understanding of the Terms of Service. Until we test each person, we cannot say what they know. We only ask them to Stand Under the Rules, they don't need to understand.

Knowl Paine · December 21, 2012

Deprecated terminology:

dep·re·cate

[ dépprə kàyt ]

condemn something or somebody: to express condemnation of something or somebody
declare obsolescence of something: to state that a computational method or computer feature is superseded

Yep, that's what I am saying. This needs to change.

Legalese: is the language of vagabonds and whore's. (Jar-gon, usually the money jar)

Qie Niangao · December 21, 2012

Formerly "Protected Land", has been haphazardly replaced, with a dysfunctional, incongruous mass of lag, called a Region.

I'm confused. Maybe it's all clear in some other thread or something. Could you suggest a link to what exactly is going on? Was there a "protected land" region before, or void, or... what?

Knowl Paine · December 21, 2012

Yes, I will gather some examples.

From memory, I would guess that there about 100 Regions directly effected. I won't post 100 links.

Resident who commented in the Mapping the Mainland thread here at the Forums, might attest to the changes, should the links not be sufficient evidence. I will post a link for that thread also.

I will list the names of the Regions effected - (by the shoreline problem) edit.

Pussycat Catnap · December 21, 2012

Search turns up no thread entitled "Mapping the Mainland".

I'm very confused about what's going on here.

Mitsuko Kytori · December 21, 2012

When buying land in SL, just as in RL, it is the buyers responsiblity to verify any claims made by the seller..

Humm happily that depend of country ...

Theresa Tennyson · December 21, 2012

Knowl Paine wrote:

As an avid Map viewer, words cannot fully express the pain, of hundreds of unspoken voices, whose former places of residence in SL, were on a Mainland Shoreline.

Yeah, in RL people just have their kids get shot.

Pussycat Catnap · December 21, 2012

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

Knowl Paine wrote:

As an avid Map viewer, words cannot fully express the pain, of hundreds of unspoken voices, whose former places of residence in SL, were on a Mainland Shoreline.

Yeah, in RL people just have their kids get shot.

Unrelated is unrelated...

Qie Niangao · December 21, 2012

I tried to find that thread, too, with no luck. If this thread is intended as humor or something, it's far too subtle for me.

The only regions that I know to have been added in recent memory were a scant handful of extra water sims (including the ones just north of the color sims, linking to the ANWR strait to the Atoll). I suppose technically those do add some tiny amount of lag to their color sim neighbors who now have something to render at ground level that they didn't have before, but I can't imagine anybody complaining about that tradeoff for having a whole string of Linden water sims to play in, so that's probably not what this is about.

That, and the fact that the Mainland is so sparsely populated now, it would seem weird that there'd be any reason to sell off existing land that had formerly been considered "Protected." That would be strange and noteworthy.

Unless maybe this is about Linden Homes regions? To my mind, there's pretty much nothing the Labs could do to make them any more dreadful than they are already, with or without more neighboring sims. (Well... nothing short of turning off autoreturn on the Linden land in those sims. That would be fun to watch!)

Pussycat Catnap · December 21, 2012

One sim east of my water lot (see my picks - in Claret) which is south of Blake Sea, they recently added a chain of islands on the east side of that sim (and those near it above and below) into what was open sailing sea. But this isn't like what the posts above described. However it may be what he meant to refer to.

Far as I know nobody's pannicked and moved out as a result - though it was annoying to lose the "endless water" view.

I'm still a little house boat on the water, nobody's given me a reverse-Noah-beaching.

Knowl Paine · December 21, 2012

I apologize for the delay on the links. RL obligations, I will get the Region names listed tonight.

The proper title of the thread I referenced, is "Mapping Sansara Continent", my apologies.

I only referenced the thread, to highlight other experienced, and avid Map viewers. They also have knowledge in what has changed, and where.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mainland/Mapping-Sansara-Continent/m-p/779395/highlight/true#M333

What are you confused about?

People sell land, they get extra money because a Linden wrote the word Protected, in the Land description. Data, in the land description field, is not a Covenant.

I suggest that LL provided a Covenant, Or, remove the word Protected, Or, educated Residents about the real meaning, which is nothing, which takes us right back to the start.

If it's not protected, why write the word protected?

What plans, could LL have, that are so miraculous, that the company cannot promise in writing, to protect those open spaces?

Melita Magic · December 22, 2012

I think people know what is meant by 'protected.'

Knowl Paine · December 22, 2012

What is going on, is a slow, but progressive consumption of all the open spaces. This has been happening for years.

Lands, which were formerly protected, are gobbled up by Residents, within 24 hours, of the land becoming open for sale.

In other areas, islands are moved from the outergrid, to locations adjacent to the Mainlands.

This issue, was re-sparked last week, when I did a manual scan of the World Map. Less, and less open places, Regions that do not belong, with huge walls of frustration at the Region edge.

My main computer is down, it has been for days, I am not able to login to SL at this time. The Inworld map, and photos from my Inventory, could make for a better presentation.

This subject is important to me, and I have compiled a small list of example Regions, doing the best I could, using the Forum World Map link. I'm using a tiny Thinkcentre right now.

I also could not find the web site that list when each Region was added, I know it is on the web. I cannot recall of the site list if the Region was originated as a Private Region, or a Linden owned.

The Regions in the list are examples, and some are the real deal. Computational limitations are currently preventing me from gathering all the data I wish to share.

I will provide a complete list, of every Region name, origination date, and how it was originally classified, Private / Linden

Nakgol

Tecta

Garuda

Doyle

Cub

Barsoom

Sentinel

Centaur

Almo Bay

Boobero

Curlew Waters

Goondi

Barneys Bay

Samjogo

Bareum

Capel

Vargas

Crooksshanks

Malfelonius

Imelza

Baltazar

Nick Nack

Grunther

Zymmna

Toma

Becuma

Intrepide

Troll Haugen

Those Regions, could be in better grid positions. The total number, may be 10 times as many listed here.

In any of the examples, consider how land prices would change if LL raised the land, and moved the shoreline out.

Then consider how the people who live on the Original shoreline, would get a raw deal, worse that what has already been done to them.

The mention of the Sansara thread, was to show, that knowledge of the mainland is not common knowledge, and only the people who have viewed the map regularly, for the past several years, are aware of the changes. I was also hoping that one of those Residents, might jump in this thread, to confirm what I am saying.

Knowl Paine · December 22, 2012

Melita Magic wrote:

I think people know what is meant by 'protected.'

Could you explain it to me, in your own words?

Melita Magic · December 22, 2012

Knowl Paine wrote:

Melita Magic wrote:

I think people know what is meant by 'protected.'

Could you explain it to me, in your own words?

Probably not well enough to satisfy. Others have said what I would have said.

Qie Niangao · December 22, 2012

Knowl, I sympathize about your computer downtime. That's always very frustrating.

One site that's helpful for doing medium-term (since 2009) historical research is Tyche Shepherd's fabulous gridsurvey.com.

You can click through the Region Search interface to get historical map tiles (objects and terrain layers). Taking one example from your list, Intrepide shows to have been changed from a completely empty water homestead to one with some island terrain between June 14 and 16th of this year. The sim itself seems to be relatively new, perhaps added in late October 2011. I'm guessing that was to fill in the coastline around the Japanese continent to make navigable Linden water all around that continent and linking to the Blake Sea. The nearby sim, Leger, appears to have been all-private since it was created, sometime before February 2009, and would have blocked navigation were it not for the surrounding water homesteads such as Intrepide.

Now, I'm really not trying to be dense nor difficult, but in this case and the several other listed examples that I checked, I'm just not seeing the problem. Who's ox is gored? In this particular case, surely the Leger landowners (and the entire coastline) must have rejoiced to have navigable water instead of the featureless, bounce-off-the-edge-of-the-world void to their immediate south. But I'm still not sure it was the addition of the Intrepide region that's supposed to be a problem, or the development of some LDPW terrain and features on the sim, or something else altogether. Or is it the risk that some insane Linden may someday convert this "protected land" to for-sale private ownership?

[EDIT: I see that Satori ("the Japanese continent") is not fully circumnavigable on Linden water. I knew that to be the case for Jeogeot ("the Korean continent") but thought they'd fixed that problem for Satori--but evidently only the northeast coast, connecting as it does to the Blake Sea.]

Theresa Tennyson · December 22, 2012

Looking at those locations my best guess is that if they were originally protected they were meant to be open spaces but were re-zoned during the land boom of 2007-2009. Note that they are mainly on Jeogeot and Satori. I imagine at that time there was tremendous BAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWing for more land so while Corsica and the Gaetas were being planned former coastline areas were allowed to be filled in with Zuider Zee-like polders. With the current state of SL I see very little chance that we'll see more of that happening.

Czari Zenovka · December 22, 2012

Qie Niangao wrote:

<snip>

Who's ox is gored?

The only person I've ever heard using this expression (prior to today, of course) was my high school history teacher. He used it regularly as in "It depends whose ox is being gored."

*Looks at you a bit more closely*

Dillon Levenque · December 22, 2012

Czari Zenovka wrote:

Qie Niangao wrote:

<snip>

Who's ox is gored?

The only person I've ever heard using this expression (prior to today, of course) was my high school history teacher. He used it regularly as in "It depends whose ox is being gored."

*Looks at you a bit more closely*

I noticed that as well. My father frequently used that expression. I'm not at all sure, but I believe it can be found at least once in the King James version.

2.9k · December 22, 2012

Dillon Levenque wrote:

Czari Zenovka wrote:

Qie Niangao wrote:

<snip>

Who's ox is gored?

The only person I've ever heard using this expression (prior to today, of course) was my high school history teacher. He used it regularly as in "It depends whose ox is being gored."

*Looks at you a bit more closely*

I noticed that as well. My father frequently used that expression. I'm not at all sure, but I believe it can be found at least once in the King James version.

i can help myself so i just had to look it up (:

+

King James Bible: Exodus 21

28 If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit.

29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

30 If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him.

31 Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this judgment shall it be done unto him.

32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.

33 And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit, and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein;

34 The owner of the pit shall make it good, and give money unto the owner of them; and the dead beast shall be his.

35 And if one man's ox hurt another's, that he die; then they shall sell the live ox, and divide the money of it; and the dead ox also they shall divide.

36 Or if it be known that the ox hath used to push in time past, and his owner hath not kept him in; he shall surely pay ox for ox; and the dead shall be his own.

+

so seems is not really good to be a goring ox

Madelaine McMasters · December 22, 2012

16 wrote: