Ciaran Laval Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: The old search engine, before any GSA, was based on how many of the keywords were on your land, that people were searching for, how large the parcel was, how much traffic the parcel got, and how many Picks people had of that parcel. This was a great system as it included all the key factors that showed who the best merchants were. If you did a search for almost any word, the results ranked all the best merchants with the most keywords on their land. A merchant always knew where he stood and how he might improve his ranking honestly. Of course, not all keywords or markets worked this smoothly in the inworld search. This search engine was custom made by a resident who was directly involved with LL, as I remember it, and read about it online. No you're confusing some factors here, picks came later and like traffic, they ended up being gamed, remember that LL basically told the creator of a paid picks system that he should stop using it as it was gaming the system. Parcel size was speculated upon, there was never official information on how this worked and I'm pretty sure this arrived when GSA arrived, not prior to it. The old v1 search is available in the latest release of Firestorm, it's a simple system of keyword and traffic, nothing more convoluted than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: Toy, have you done any research into Austrian theory? Have you read any books by Mises, or Rothbard, or Hayek? These are the most respected economists the world has ever seen. Do some research buddy. If you have, then specifically explain to me why I'm wrong. Tho, I am a pretty silly boy, as I love doing research and learning about ecomonic theory. I especially love it when those theories don't involve coersion. Medhue, this is not the thread to discuss Economic models and systems, nor would I engage in a frank discussion with an admitted card carrying American republican with extreme beliefs in only one system and ZERO actual experience in any other system. This would be a fruitless discussions. Trust me that from your statements earlier - you clearly do not have a strong understanding in anthing but 1 system. I also strongly believe this is not the forum nor thread for you or anyone else to be posting your own RL political beliefs or promote your political agenda. SL's economic system / model cannot be directly compared to any RL economic system except for a very high level finger that points it to more of a capitalistic or a socialistic model. That being said, SL CLEARLY points to the Capitalistic model and has little resemblance to the other. Many of the factors that impact the VIRTUAL WORLD SL economic model are those that do not even exist in RL. One of the biggest is a near zero / greatly under-costed cost of manufacturing of goods. Also, as was said before, the best description of SL is that it strongly fits into the mindset and respective economy of an ARTIST ECONOMY where value propositions by many creators are not based on generating REVENUE! So lets get back on topic Medhue and keep RL politics out of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuko Kytori Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 So no Mitsuko, this is not a conspiration, bec for this they should have more skills and more projects for sl than what they have. This is just bad management, and prob incompetence. I don't speak about conspiration, I speak about they sell ads and make believe something, but they make another things. They describ a service, and not make it or make it in an another way. And when you can create second life, you are able can create a function to establish a probability ! And I believe really that probability depend of factor as money spend in classified, ads and so one. I have nothing againt that, but before I spend money I like I have true information about what I will buy. No more It is a question of courtesy and honesty. I am angry , very angry about the fact, they not answer, they not explain, despite many proofs I bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: Toy, have you done any research into Austrian theory? Have you read any books by Mises, or Rothbard, or Hayek? These are the most respected economists the world has ever seen. Do some research buddy. If you have, then specifically explain to me why I'm wrong. Tho, I am a pretty silly boy, as I love doing research and learning about economic theory. I especially love it when those theories don't involve coersion. Here is a popular funny rap video on the 2 most adhered to theories of economics: Keyenian theory is what most governments engage in today. /me slap her forehead with her hand.... I just dont believe im reading this. I was about to answer to you, but i just read the last Toysoldier's post and i can only agree with the fact this is not the place for talking about politics theories... So i prefer to not say anything. But in another place, its whenever you want lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I respectfully disagree. I have lived off my SL earning since 2007, with no other income source. I know how things worked very well. People claimed that Picks were gamed, but what those people didn't understand was that only Picks from people with PIOF counted in the search results. LL dropped the Picks from the search results because of some crazy situation where some1 use Nazi in the description of 1 of the Picks that linked to a merchant. LL released a blog that explain this, it's not some rumor I found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: Toy, have you done any research into Austrian theory? Have you read any books by Mises, or Rothbard, or Hayek? These are the most respected economists the world has ever seen. Do some research buddy. If you have, then specifically explain to me why I'm wrong. Tho, I am a pretty silly boy, as I love doing research and learning about economic theory. I especially love it when those theories don't involve coersion. Here is a popular funny rap video on the 2 most adhered to theories of economics: Keyenian theory is what most governments engage in today. /me slap her forehead with her hand.... I just dont believe im reading this. I was about to answer to you, but i just read the last Toysoldier's post and i can only agree with the fact this is not the place for talking about politics theories... So i prefer to not say anything. But in another place, its whenever you want lol. It's more likely that both you and Toy don't have answers, hence discount the value of debating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuko Kytori Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 2- Now we are arrving to the LL conspiracy.... they are giving hand to big brands for killing small ones.. Not kill, but I think the rules are not the same, no problem, they just have honesty to say it. In addition, if they laught, and I hope it is not the case, I can understand why the number of salary decrease ! Laught of customer ... sure it is a fine way to go up ... So I think not, they surely don't read this topic. And if they read it, they surely not laught. I am sure they spend time for other things but don't answer by mail or by support ticket is a lack of courtesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 i answered to you before, in 2 other threads Mitsuko. the mp ads are no more than lottery. But its LL corporation, so their world, their rules. You can accept to play lottery and so keep buying ads in the mp. you can refuse to play lottery and so no buy ads anymore. Here is your freedom. you are not forced to do smth you dont want to do. You still have a lot of other ways to make ad for your business but yes, this mean work and work again. Not only spend linden dollars but work and be creative in the way you advertise and in the product you create. I spend at least 1 daily hour for advertising my business inworld. its often more than 1 hour. This on top of the time i spend for creating, and on top of my full time rl work, you can add to this that i have also a normal life in rl and sl. The LL system is not fair, but i dont know any system really fair either. When i join SL ive noticed soon that this wasnt the system of my dream, but i wont do revolution in SL, if i have to do one, i will make it in RL in priority. Noone force me to join SL, so i do with what is given to me and i try to adapt myself to what is given to me. No more. This doesnt empeach me to complain smtimes. But we know all that our possiblity to have an influence on LL management are limited. Ive been like you really angry the day i learnt that mp ads are lottery, but i didnt flooded the forum for 2 days shouting i will sell my products for free (like you did and are still doing) like if i wanted to make a huge disguised advertising for my mp store. I have too much respect for a lot of forumers i read here often for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 The best quote from the video, "Give us a chance, so we can discover the most valuable ways to server one another." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: It's more likely that both you and Toy don't have answers, hence discount the value of debating it. i told you Medhue, its whenever you want, but not here. politic is one of my favorite topic. really, id say even im really passionated. :smileywink: And at some point that im not afraid to do it in another language than mine lol but there is a place for everything. and i agree with Toysoldier, this is not the place to display our politic opinion, neither for propaganda or proselytism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: It's more likely that both you and Toy don't have answers, hence discount the value of debating it. i told you Medhue, its whenever you want, but not here. politic is one of my favorite topic. really, id say even im really passionated. :smileywink: And at some point that im not afraid to do it in another language than mine lol but there is a place for everything. and i agree with Toysoldier, this is not the place to display our politic opinion, neither for propaganda or proselytism. 1000% agree Trinity. Fear of debate with Medhue on this issue is the least of my concerns. I would have his head spinning and crying on this topic. BUT, this is not the forum to discuss the realities of Economic Models as well as their pros and cons and which countries have been more successful using which blend of these systems. But you wont engage with me here on this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Picks were not part of the algorithm in 2007, picks came after and a creator of a paid picks system was told his product was violating the system, yes NPIOF picks did not count, this was widely discussed but picks came in a later incarnation of search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: Yes, technically, we are all artists, but we have 2 major categories. Those are the professionals, that lives off their sales of their art, and then we have those that simply create purely for attention or pleasure. This is not the mideval times when artists has benefactors. Every1 must earn their livings and this is a big part of how and economy functions, and why prices are what they are. The professionals do not create strictly for profit, but also for pleasure. If we did things strictly for profit, we would likely be in a different industry. Yep, this difference in categories of merchants is a given. Everyone must earn their livings, and most don't have the time, the patience or the talent to do that in SL. Most professional merchants recognise the importance for a certain bottum price for virtual goods. But the majority of the SL merchants earn their livings outside SL, what makes them independent from their income in SL. Since hobby merchants don't have to live from their sales in SL, they can afford to sell their creations for what a professional might consider ridiculous low prices. So professionals must realise they are working on a market with a lot of competitors who have the urge to be seen, above a financial need. Medhue Simoni wrote: The demand in SL drops because consumers can't find the best products That is an assumption... and I don't believe it in it. In 2007 every single merchant could find buyers, for good products and for bad products, for beautiful and for ugly products. The market of virtual goods was still limited, and there still were enough holes to jump in for new merchants, while the population was rapidly growing. A big number of (new) residents brings a big demand. People tend to have budgets that they can spend, and most people stick to that budget for years when nothing changes in their situation. On the one hand we see less new residents come in, year after year, and on the other hand we see a world wide RL economical crisis that has a lot of influence on peoples budgets. A percentage of longstay residents and a percentage of newcomers have simply less to spend then in 2007. I see those factors as much more important to declare the sink in the SL economy, then that people cannot find the best products. When people have money in the pocket that is longing to be spend, they will always find the best product. Because that is simply the product that makes the heart jump at the right moment. This can be pure impulsive, or it can be well considered after a solid product comparison, people will simply buy what is best (in the range of the budget their are prepared to spend). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Picks mights not have been in the search in 2007, but they were in the algorythm at the height of SL's popularity and when the search was functioning at it's best, before the GSA implementation. Even after the GSA implementation, Picks did make it function much better, until they completely removed it. Without Picks, I remember being ranked about 18th, but with Picks, I was about 10th for the keyword Animation. I only had about 70 people with picks of my parcel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Madeliefste Oh wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: The demand in SL drops because consumers can't find the best products That is an assumption... and I don't believe it in it. In 2007 every single merchant could find buyers, for good products and for bad products, for beautiful and for ugly products. The market of virtual goods was still limited, and there still were enough holes to jump in for new merchants, while the population was rapidly growing. A big number of (new) residents brings a big demand. People tend to have budgets that they can spend, and most people stick to that budget for years when nothing changes in their situation. On the one hand we see less new residents come in, year after year, and on the other hand we see a world wide RL economical crisis that has a lot of influence on peoples budgets. A percentage of longstay residents and a percentage of newcomers have simply less to spend then in 2007. I see those factors as much more important to declare the sink in the SL economy, then that people cannot find the best products. When people have money in the pocket that is longing to be spend, they will always find the best product. Because that is simply the product that makes the heart jump at the right moment. This can be pure impulsive, or it can be well considered after a solid product comparison, people will simply buy what is best (in the range of the budget their are prepared to spend). Well, obviously, there are other factors, I'm just saying it is 1 of the factors. I've been friends with a number of people that love to seek out and help newbies. They have told me that the issue they see the most is that the newbie comes in and tries some freebies, and wants something better, but when they actually spend their money, they don't like the product, or get really bad service or no service. With more and more merchants selling items, the really good merchants get lost in the mix. For some1 like myself, and you, who do this fulltime, we are around to help the customers, whenever they need it. This is a completely different experience for the shopper than spending good money and getting something they can't or won't use. My friends that help newbies tell me that this is why most people leave SL, because they feel like they have been scammed. If the best merchants can't be found, that means that most newbies end up feeling this way, and then leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Dartagan Shepherd wrote: An ironic little twist is that now Phil Rosedale himself is investing and partnering with Ozimals to bring breedables outside of SL (as if breedables didn't exist outside of SL before one was ever spawned in SL), so now we've got the chairman of the board using Strangelings from within SL to upsell a venture outside of LL. Right, that is thebig joke of 2012: Pip embraces the breedables. Maybe it's just that people who seem to be great visionairs for a period are at risk to get demented at young age. I guess he had a Tamagotchi when he was young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhue Simoni Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I love how you don't address me directly and then miss represent what I said. I never mentioned fear. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but the title of this thread is Regulation of SL Market - When? So, this would be the perfect thread to debate the SL economy. As for my head spinning, that's a bold statement that any reasonable person who understands both theories completely, would likely not make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Madeliefste Oh wrote: Dartagan Shepherd wrote: An ironic little twist is that now Phil Rosedale himself is investing and partnering with Ozimals to bring breedables outside of SL (as if breedables didn't exist outside of SL before one was ever spawned in SL), so now we've got the chairman of the board using Strangelings from within SL to upsell a venture outside of LL. Right, that is thebig joke of 2012: Pip embraces the breedables. Maybe it's just that people who seem to be great visionairs for a period are at risk to get demented at young age. I guess he had a Tamagotchi when he was young. This is what Phillip tweets every day: Philip Rosedale @philiplinden weight = 188.3, goal = 180, meditation count = 10,300 He counts to AT LEAST 10,000 every day, as meditation. Can you believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Pamela Galli wrote: Madeliefste Oh wrote: Dartagan Shepherd wrote: An ironic little twist is that now Phil Rosedale himself is investing and partnering with Ozimals to bring breedables outside of SL (as if breedables didn't exist outside of SL before one was ever spawned in SL), so now we've got the chairman of the board using Strangelings from within SL to upsell a venture outside of LL. Right, that is thebig joke of 2012: Pip embraces the breedables. Maybe it's just that people who seem to be great visionairs for a period are at risk to get demented at young age. I guess he had a Tamagotchi when he was young. This is what Phillip tweets every day: Philip Rosedale @ philiplinden weight = 188.3, goal = 180, meditation count = 10,300 He counts to AT LEAST 10,000 every day, as meditation. Can you believe that? Oh how I love to monetize thee, let me count the ways? Really though, those tweets have been going on for months with no real progress, a diet plan not to invest in. But the next time someone claims to be a visionary and it involves working off the backs of others, or of others goods and turning people into product, I'm filing it under fiction. Watch those new LL products, the monetization bits haven't kicked in yet on currency and/or selling your creations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Gorky Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: I respectfully disagree. I have lived off my SL earning since 2007, with no other income source. I know how things worked very well. People claimed that Picks were gamed, but what those people didn't understand was that only Picks from people with PIOF counted in the search results. LL dropped the Picks from the search results because of some crazy situation where some1 use Nazi in the description of 1 of the Picks that linked to a merchant. LL released a blog that explain this, it's not some rumor I found. I was gaming picks heavily when they were removed as a search factor and I have to say I have never heard this story involving the word Nazi being linked to a merchant as being the reason why picks were removed. I would like to see a link if you have it. The reason picks were removed was because LL went out and purchased a search engine that wasn't suitable for SL. It was like shoving a square peg in a round hole. Rather than adapting the search engine to facilitate the data that existed in SL, LL took the easy way out and simply removed picks as a search factor. Picks were linked to places and could not be separated from them. Because allot of people went and edited the text related to the picks we ended up with lots of irrelevant noise cluttering up the search results. Rather than find a solution to this they just got rid of picks. So the reason picks were removed was laziness. :matte-motes-big-grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Gorky Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Ciaran Laval wrote: Picks were not part of the algorithm in 2007, picks came after and a creator of a paid picks system was told his product was violating the system, yes NPIOF picks did not count, this was widely discussed but picks came in a later incarnation of search. I remember that the system I used had an option to only pay out to accounts that were over a certain age, like a month old or something and only to those with PIOF. If an account did not meet these requirements then my picks system would not let them sign up. For a while there, pick gaming was one of the dominant factors in getting a good rank. I really got the most out of it and managed to maintain the number 1 spot on keywords such as 'houses' 'homes' 'shops' and 'stores' and this was mainly down to gaming picks. Everyone else at the top of the rankings was doing it so it was the best way to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Medhue Simoni wrote: They have told me that the issue they see the most is that the newbie comes in and tries some freebies, and wants something better, but when they actually spend their money, they don't like the product, or get really bad service or no service. When it comes to service, yes, there should be more regulation in the marketplace. I think customer satisfaction will increase when supported products gain visibility above unsupported products. In my opinion should 'Is the merchant still active in SL' be a criterium for ranking in the marketplace. The last date the merchant logged into SL should play a role in ranking. The longer ago the merchant entered SL, the lower his visibility of his products on marketplace should get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Porky Gorky wrote: Medhue Simoni wrote: I respectfully disagree. I have lived off my SL earning since 2007, with no other income source. I know how things worked very well. People claimed that Picks were gamed, but what those people didn't understand was that only Picks from people with PIOF counted in the search results. LL dropped the Picks from the search results because of some crazy situation where some1 use Nazi in the description of 1 of the Picks that linked to a merchant. LL released a blog that explain this, it's not some rumor I found. I was gaming picks heavily when they were removed as a search factor and I have to say I have never heard this story involving the word Nazi being linked to a merchant as being the reason why picks were removed. I would like to see a link if you have it. The reason picks were removed was because LL went out and purchased a search engine that wasn't suitable for SL. It was like shoving a square peg in a round hole. Rather than adapting the search engine to facilitate the data that existed in SL, LL took the easy way out and simply removed picks as a search factor. Picks were linked to places and could not be separated from them. Because allot of people went and edited the text related to the picks we ended up with lots of irrelevant noise cluttering up the search results. Rather than find a solution to this they just got rid of picks. So the reason picks were removed was laziness. :matte-motes-big-grin: I remember, sort of. When you did a search of Nazi, a store name came up because someone had made a pick at the store, which contained that word. Something like that -- the point was made that Picks no longer really related to the location where the pick was made, but were about various other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Gorky Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Pamela Galli wrote: I remember, sort of. When you did a search of Nazi, a store name came up because someone had made a pick at the store, which contained that word. Something like that -- the point was made that Picks no longer really related to the location where the pick was made, but were about various other things. LOL. I find it amusing that it took something as serious as this for LL to accept the fact that allot of pick text was not related to their original location. Just have to look at a couple of profiles and they would have stumbled upon unrelated picks. Silly LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitsuko Kytori Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 So, I just need put my avatar log on and ... I hope second life is not only for people not work in real life .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now