Goodbye, Phoenix

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Posted on Phoenix Firestorm blog:

To be clear
- We are ending support for the Phoenix Viewer on Dec 31st, 2012. 
- If you are a Phoenix user we recommend you migrate to a peer to peer help group created for phoenix users. “Phoenix Viewer Self Help”

- We are NOT forcing you to use Firestorm! If you refuse to use Firestorm there are a few V1 alternatives out there, check out the LL Third Party Viewer Directory. 
- We are NOT telling you not to use Phoenix Viewer
- We are NOT blocking Phoenix Viewer from logging in
- We are NOT breaking Phoenix!
- You MAY continue to use Phoenix as long as you want, but be aware.. it will become more and more deprecated over time.
- LL is not intentionally killing Phoenix but be aware, there are changes coming in the new year that will break it. 

http://phoenixviewer.blogspot.com/2012/12/ending-support-for-phoenix-viewer.html

[iCade]

Eh, personally love Firestorm to the point where I never even touched Phoenix. Hopefully Firestorm won't be next.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

I won't miss it, either. I did use it for quite a while before switching over to Firestorm. There are quite a few hardcore Phoenix users (who are either unable or unwilling to use other viewers) who will not be pleased, though.

[TristanMercer]

My sentiments as well Griffin and Cade.

Firestorm runs flawlessly on my system. I haven't touched Phoenix since the actual release of Firestorm. I won't be sad to see it go. Firestorm is definitely the wave of the future.

[Ceka Cianci]

they were saying this back in her interview with that one linden guy or maybe it was a different one..

i just remember them saying they would be working more on the firestorm project..

they do have the phoenix skin and stuff which i use when i'm on..it's pretty nice..

so it won't be like a total loss of phoenix..

looks wise anyways..i never really gotinto all the features much..just some of them..but it works nice..

well the last time i used it anyways hehehe

[Paul Hexem]

Now if only there were a way to get people to update their computer hardware, too.

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

iCade wrote:

Eh, personally love Firestorm to the point where I never even touched Phoenix. Hopefully Firestorm won't be next.

---

Firestorm has no reason to be -next-.

Until such time as LLs puts out a 'Vx' that is not compatible with the current v3, and then starts breaking server compatibility with v3, TPVs based on v3 have little to worry about as they will be able to stay current.

 

I'm sure there's a lot of mouth-frothing going on right now in Phoenix groups, blogs, forums, etc... But those folks have been kind of irrationally clining to the past for a while now anyway - so that's to be expected.

V1 ended in 2009, its 2012, soon 2013. Versions of Windows being a notable exception; most active software doesn't last this long past its shelf life...

 

LL and the Firestorm team aren't killing anything. LLs is moving forward with improvements. And to make things work better often means leaving the past behind. If you adopt a new and better way of handling something, the old way might just have to go away to make room.

 

[Princess Verwood]

I agree with Ceka. They had mentioned a while back in one of their posts on the site that they would soon stop working on Phoenix so I suppose some already expected it.

I don't mind firestorm so much especially since there is a Phoenix skin option. Makes navigating easier and just like phoenix.

[Syo Emerald]

---

Gadget Portal wrote:

Now if only there were a way to get people to update their computer hardware, too.

---

Well, by time they would have been kicked out by their systems anyway. Hardware that gets broken....or just the ongoing improvement in every (serious) virtual world/game. First they aren't able to enjoy new things (like mesh) and then other things start to get difficult.

[Tara Chester]

You could have at least made Merchant Outbox to work before abanodoning it. I use Phoenix all the time, and I hate swithching viewers solely for this purpose.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

---

Tara Chester wrote:

You

could have at least made Merchant Outbox to work before abanodoning it.

---

I can assure you that *I* had nothing to do with it.

---

I use Phoenix all the time, and I hate swithching viewers solely for this purpose.

---

Then perhaps it is time to move on.

[Orca Flotta]

It was sposed to happen sooner or later. Be thankful for the extra special care the Phoenix team put into maintaining Phoenix that long after it became obsolete. I always considered myself a hardcore Phoenix fangirl but a few weeks ago it became impossible to use for some stuff. So I finally amde the plunge and immersed into FS.

Was okay but, like Phoenix, it felt heavy handed and slow.

So now I'm on Singularity. And let me tell you it's The **bleep**!!! True V1 GUI, fast rendering, much better fps, everything is perfect in my little outdated world. It's light on resources as well, so perfect for laptops and older hardware. Singularity is regarded as the action viewer, so you should use it if you're into fighting, raiding, sailing, biking and stuff like that anyway.

Despite the fact that it's V 1.2.3 under the hood it renders mesh without a problem. Only thing I'm missing is Media on Prim. But that doesn't bother me too much.

[Ceka Cianci]

i'm gonna say anyone that was in the group and kept up with the information about when they stopped updating phoenix..they were already aware of this coming..

it's been said on their site and in interviews for over a year now..so i don't believe there will be too much of a shock to the system as if it were just something being announced..

they did a pretty good job of letting their users know well ahead of time so they could be ready..

even the last release of phoenix which was about a year ago at most .. it was said in the release notes i believe..i know it was on their site for that release..

so if people downloaded it and read those they knew it was coming..

i really don't think they will get much flack from many..they did a good prep job on this i think.. =)

 

 

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Try Singularity: https://sites.google.com/site/singularityviewer/

Has the look & feel of the old Phoenix viewer but with a modern codebase underneath and improved performance.

 

[Coby Foden]

---

Tara Chester wrote:

You could have at least made Merchant Outbox to work before abanodoning it. I use Phoenix all the time, and I hate swithching viewers solely for this purpose.

---

Well, the fact is that you will hate to use Phoenix after couple of months when the server side avatar baking will be implemented by Linden Lab.  From there on you will see every avatar grey (i.e grey skins, grey system clothes) in Phoenix.

It would have been total vaste of effort by the Phoenix/Firestorm team to make the Merchant Outbox working in Phoenix as after couple of months nobody would like to use Phoenix.  What fun it would be to see all avatars grey?  I feel that the team made a wise decision, now they can fully concentrate on developing Firestorm.

Better to start swithcing now and start learning how to use other viewer.  If your computer cannot run Firestorm or Linden Lab viewer, there are couple of lighter alternatives with V1 UI:  Singularity and Cool VL viewer.  Switching to other viewer is not so painful as it might look.  One can adjust fairly quickly.  During the first days one might feel uncomfortable with the new viewer, but gradually one learns to deal with it.  After a while using the new viewer will feel more and more like a second nature.

  Hmm... this wasn't so hard after all. :smileyhappy:

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

Gadget Portal wrote:

Now if only there were a way to get people to update their computer hardware, too.

---

Easy, you pay for it and I am sure they will be more than happy to upgrade to the best power user PC with the latest technology money can buy.  I'll start sending them to you.

Marie Antoinette, climb down from your Ivory Tower and look around at the state of the economy.  Not everyone can afford to run out and spend even a few hundred on a new computer. Luckily there are still going to be TPV around to accommodate most of them.

[Brayla Ravenhurst]

I see Firestorm being "The" modern TPV and Singularity becoming "The" 1.x viewer of choice.  I think will be best for the community, as then the teams for Firestorm are not split between 1x and 3x.

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

---

Gadget Portal wrote:

Now if only there were a way to get people to update their computer hardware, too.

---

Marie Antoinette, climb down from your Ivory Tower and look around at the state of the economy.  Not everyone can afford to run out and spend even a few hundred on a new computer. Luckily there are still going to be TPV around to accommodate most of them.

---

A 300-500 laptop can run SL just fine in medium settings. Many places will let one get that on credit / financed.

Technology goes one way:

------------------>

 

And its been normal for a long time now that a computer really won't last more than 3-5 years. This is a prime reason to never buy the top end model. People with normal incomes should settle for mid-range. People on rough times can get by with careful choice of lower end systems.

This is, in the modern era, a bit like owning a car: you can get by an a 20-year old junker, but its not wise, and it is a vital necessity in modern society. If one cuts down some of the texting on the cellhphone(s), drops cable TV (which is obsolete anyway), puts off the tablets, and adopts a plan - a basic computer, chosen wisely, can make that 5 year gap on a small budget.

You don't need all the devices and toys to be functional today, but keeping one computer per household within that 3-5 year window pretty much has become a necessity.

If you can't afford that machine, you probably shouldn't be in SL - its not a webpage, its a bit higher end than that. But not by much frankly... At a minimus, you should be at your local community college getting retrained to something that better pays the bills.

 

[Chuck Vintner]

I've just been avoiding the layout of firestorm / v2... i know the change from phoenix is inevitable, and i'll change when i'm tired of dealing with the growing list of bugs encountered with it.

I miss emerald

[leliel Mirihi]

---

Chuck Vintner wrote:

I miss emerald

---

---

leliel Mirihi wrote:

There was plenty of evidence to show that those Emerald devs were up to no good many months before the end, but the viewer was so popular, and LL's viewer so hated, at the time that many people just refused to believe it. Emerald is a prime example of people willfully ignoring loud and clear signs of danger for the sake of comfort and features. It's a black stain in the history of SL that should not be forgotten.

---

I wrote that in another thread a few weeks ago. It's nice to see that the reality distortion field is still in full force three years later.

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

leliel Mirihi wrote:

I wrote that in another thread a few weeks ago. It's nice to see that the reality distortion field is still in full force three years later.

---

People still try to split hairs on that one and pretend it was just the one dev, and only at the very last final moment. But yeah - there was almost a year long process of red flags going up.

Some of us got burned pretty hard by people who defended that team... and the conveniently pretend nothing happened until that moment...

It says a lot about character and integrity when folks are willing to defend wrongful conduct merely because its good for them.

 

For me, it began when I asked a simple question about how something worked, and got in reply what looked like a hate-mail, rather than a simple "a does b resulting in c"...

- That told me rational heads were not driving the bus... and as I watched that pattern got repeated with more and more folks, and a number of strange things began to emerge regarding people's privacy and 'god complexes'...

Things were done, at the end, that people in other industries are serving prison time for doing... Denial of Service attacks -ARE- "serious business". Something folks should take stock of before defending anything about Emerald and its team.

 

Phoenix is not Emerald... and its team claims to be a clean break. Many have chosen to trust that. I've seen some good from them - but Emerald should still serve as a reminder that blind trust is never a good idea. This applies for -ANY- TPV though. As for LLs, well they have all our info and L$'s anyway - if they wanted to screw us over, we'd simply be screwed... But they're not likely to do anything criminal - regulations keep that mostly in check.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

leliel Mirihi wrote:

---

Chuck Vintner wrote:

I miss emerald

---

---

leliel Mirihi wrote:

There was plenty of evidence to show that those Emerald devs were up to no good many months before the end, but the viewer was so popular, and LL's viewer so hated, at the time that many people just refused to believe it. Emerald is a prime example of people willfully ignoring loud and clear signs of danger for the sake of comfort and features. It's a black stain in the history of SL that should not be forgotten.

---

I wrote that in another thread a few weeks ago. It's nice to see that the reality distortion field is still in full force three years later.

---

I think ofentimes it's not the 'engine' but the model of the car people are talking about, that is, the GUI.

I was a salesman onthe road for 15 years and drove a lot of different cars.  I averaged 600 miles per week and during the holiday selling season one year i got up to 1,000 mile sper week. 

One particular model I drove for 10 years.  Went through five of them,  I absolutely loved that model.  I'd always get where I needed not feeling beat up by the road.  My back never hurt.  My legs didn't get tired.  It was just the right fit for me.

It is somewhat the same with the interfaces.  I've used many.  Personally, there was jsut something about the Firestorm Beta GUI that 'sang' for me.  It just felt natural and intuitive.  

And while there are tasks that different viewers make easier I think it is mainly this intuitiveness that people are reffering to when they say they prefer a particular Viewer.  They could care less about the engine under the hood.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

A 300-500 laptop can run SL just fine in medium settings. Many places will let one get that on credit / financed.

Technology goes one way:

------------------>

 

And its been normal for a long time now that a computer really won't last more than 3-5 years. This is a prime reason to never buy the top end model. People with normal incomes should settle for mid-range. People on rough times can get by with careful choice of lower end systems.

This is, in the modern era, a bit like owning a car: you can get by an a 20-year old junker, but its not wise, and it is a vital necessity in modern society. If one cuts down some of the texting on the cellhphone(s), drops cable TV (which is obsolete anyway), puts off the tablets, and adopts a plan - a basic computer, chosen wisely, can make that 5 year gap on a small budget.

You don't need all the devices and toys to be functional today, but keeping one computer per household within that 3-5 year window pretty much has become a necessity.

If you can't afford that machine, you probably shouldn't be in SL - its not a webpage, its a bit higher end than that. But not by much frankly... At a minimus, you should be at your local community college getting retrained to something that better pays the bills.

 

---

Ah but you're forgetting a segment of the SL population that may be larger than you think - people living on disability who are not able to work, thus retraining to something that better pays the bills is out.  I will also add in here people who have lost their jobs during the recession and either have not been able to secure another one yet (not talking about people here who aren't diligently looking) or who are under-employed to the point they are just making ends meet.

Many of those people have already cut down to bare bone necessities.  *Speaking for myself, I do not own a cell-phone of any kind, much less a smart phone - thus have never texted, used a tablet, etc.  Due to still unpaid medical bills I am unable to get credit, although, after paying off a mountain of credit-card debt my ex-husband and I had accrued in the past I have made a decision to not use credit going forward.  I have a landline phone with basic service, basic cable (10 channels), internet connection and electricity - all paid by a family member because what I receive pays for rent and not much else.

I drive a 15-year old car, but it only has 56,000 miles and an engine that runs like a top.  Yes it would be "nice" to have a shiny new car, but this one is serving me well; not that I could get a new car to begin with...lol.

As for one should not be in SL if she cannot afford a new PC, virtual worlds are a lifeline to many shut-ins who can do online what is now impossible in RL.  From reading your posts I know  you're against prejudice; however, the disabled community is sometimes forgotten in that group.  I've also seen you post many times about how "some folks" see things only their way or as "their own kind" do.  Stop and think a minute.  A few of the blanket statements you posted above are from your mindset and others like you ie. able-bodied people who have the capacity to earn a living.

You make an interesting point about purchasing a mid-range PC.  My thinking has been that by purchasing the best PC one can afford it will last longer, but I've been rethinking this and wondering if it's better to purchase less expensive PCs more often considering the hyperjumps in technology.  I'm glad you mentioned that and would enjoy hearing types of PCs (ie. basic stats) that are mid-range but would still run the V3 viewer on higher than 64m draw distance.

*These statements are not meant as a debate, that has been adequately covered recently in another forum.  My main point is that there are other variables that if they do not affect one directly, he may forget they exist.

Also, on the other forum, some great suggestions were made re: updating/getting a new PC relative to those who have little to no discretionary income including checking with Goodwill, Freecycle, Craigs List, etc.  So I do agree with you that there are ways to upgrade, even in the situations I mention.  Just trying to open up a little more awareness.

[Dillon Levenque]

 

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

You make an interesting point about purchasing a mid-range PC.  My thinking has been that by purchasing the best PC one can afford it will last longer, but I've been rethinking this and wondering if it's better to purchase less expensive PCs more often considering the hyperjumps in technology.  I'm glad you mentioned that and would enjoy hearing types of PCs (ie. basic stats) that are mid-range but would still run the V3 viewer on higher than 64m draw distance.

---

 

I have some input regarding PC specifications. I noticed this the other day on Inara Pey's blog. She does a great many viewer reviews; I have frequently seen her stuff used as reference links to posts with questions about viewers. She has posted the specs of the PC she uses to evaluate viewers, and suprisingly enough they are modest to say the least:

Computer:
* CPU: Intel Q6600 Quad core, @ 2.4GHz
* Memory: 3GB DDR2 (PC2-5300) 333MHz
* OS: Windows 7 SP1 32-bit
* Video: nVidia GE9800GT 1GB

That's only a tiny bit better than mine, and I've been longing to upgrade mine for some time: I'm due. For the record I recently switched to Firestorm, current version, and am having no problems at all.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Dillon Levenque wrote:

 

---

Czari Zenovka wrote:

You make an interesting point about purchasing a mid-range PC.  My thinking has been that by purchasing the best PC one can afford it will last longer, but I've been rethinking this and wondering if it's better to purchase less expensive PCs more often considering the hyperjumps in technology.  I'm glad you mentioned that and would enjoy hearing types of PCs (ie. basic stats) that are mid-range but would still run the V3 viewer on higher than 64m draw distance.

---

 

I have some input regarding PC specifications. I noticed this the other day on Inara Pey's

blog

. She does a great many viewer reviews; I have frequently seen her stuff used as reference links to posts with questions about viewers. She has posted the specs of the PC she uses to evaluate viewers, and suprisingly enough they are modest to say the least:

Computer:

* CPU: Intel Q6600 Quad core, @ 2.4GHz

* Memory: 3GB DDR2 (PC2-5300) 333MHz

* OS: Windows 7 SP1 32-bit

* Video: nVidia GE9800GT 1GB

That's only a tiny bit better than mine, and I've been longing to upgrade mine for some time: I'm due. For the record I recently switched to Firestorm, current version, and am having no problems at all.

---

Thank you so much Dillon.   This is the type of into I, and perhaps others, need right now.  Will also go check out Inara's blog - duh...should have known she'd be on top of this.   My concern with minimal stats is that I'd still not be able to run Windlight and move or see more than 64m draw distance.  OTOH, even the minimal PCs of today likely run much more efficiently than the best ones of the past.