IP Tracking for Sim owners?

[Jordann Braveheart]

Is there anyway for a sim owner to track the IP address of avatars when the come to their sims?  For instance, if you went to a sim once and then came back on an alt, could they track and then relate the two avatars through their IP addresses, or by any other method?

I know there used to be something called Redzone which could track you if you had on streaming media (or so I understood at the time) but I believe that was banned.

Thanks in advance for any input. 

[Cerise Sorbet]

That particular system was shut down, but the method it used to compare addresses is still viable and not especially difficult. It is safest to assume that if you use media or streaming audio inside SL, that someone will be trying to match up connections to avatars, with varying rates of success.

[Jordann Braveheart]

So is it safe to assume if you keep streaming media off, that they will not be able to track you?

[161488303349]

is kinda a waste of time to do account/avatar control by IP address matching

IP address proxies for one will defeat these kinds of attempts. the baddies know how to do this

also can get lots of false positives. for example i have a dynamic IP address. my ISP change it quite frequently automagically. is quite possible that other users will have my IP address at some time. me theirs as well

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back in the day on some the "emergent behaviour" sims when they used to go to war with each other they used LSL scripting to do this kinda thing. kinda sorta

like listen in to chat and pick up on keywords that might be said in open chat. autoboot you if you use them

other one was to run rez detector scripts. so if you like rez stuff superfast then autoban

stuff like that  

 

 

[wiked Anton]

i think tracking IP address is a violation of a persons privacy, no matter good intentions. IP tracking should be considered  a virus in SL.  IP addresses cna change everytime you turn on your computer anyway....but still i dont think it should be allowed or legal. Australia has pretty strict laws on privacy and information gathering. for instance, you have to declare that you are collecting info, what the purpose is, and the a declaration that you will protect that information and that it will be used annonymously. this you have to declare to the person who's info you are collecting. Sl does this, but third party's have no such permission as far as i am concerned.

[Jordann Braveheart]

I agree completely that it's wrong to track them. That's not my question.

My question is if it's still possible that sim owners are doing it, and if you keep your streaming media off, if that prevents anyone from tracking you?

[madman626 Fall]

I wish we could still track them,,,now hear me out first but you all start jumping on me ,, I pay good money to enjoy sl and I pay my good  share of renting a sim and I don't want anyone there I could have that right and I do but I could also have a way to tell if someone has a buch of alts that keep coming to my sim and making trouble for me and my friends. I could have a way to tell me that,,, but I know you all going to say but madman IP change every time some reset it ,, so what I don't care if it does if your IP change and some one else take over your IP and use it well you could had been good to start with and they would have been ban in the first place and 2 funny how LL can ban ya by IP no one never say anything about that then,,,OK some time ago I was at a sand and got ban from there LOL because they was friends and after that I heard story's that the sand box been getting hit and cash would you believe that they believe if me what a joke,,,sand box are every where heck even a sim for sell you can build on but I have my sim ,, so they believe that can tell who is who they can't ,,just like I wish I could at me sim so far has I know nope,,, they can tell only by steaming  is turn on and then if it turn off nope no way that I heard of .

[161488303349]

yes you can still track/match IP addresses on your sim/parcel if you want

like for example.

just say for some strange reason you  dont like USA people. can autograb any IP adresses thru media that you can and match to USA domain. and on match boot them off

you just not allowed to share the IP addresses with others without permission is all

sharing of IP addresses falls under the disclosure of private info without consent rule

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edit

what Peggy say below about IP addresses is actual correct. they way i said above is wrong. IP addresses are public info when you choose to connect. like if your media turned on for example

associating an IP address with an avatar name and sharing with others without the consent is where you get into trouble

 

[Peggy Paperdoll]

You're dreaming if you think you can use a captured IP address to effectively ban a determined griefer.  LL doesn't use IP addresses to ban.......they simply block the username for minor things.  For the major, hardcore, bans they block MAC addresses from the computer of the user they want to permaban.  An IP block is so easy to get around it's almost stupid.  All this "I'm going to protect myself and ban all alts with a particular IP address" is showing your ignorances.  That method of banning is probably about the funniest thing you could do to entertain a griefer (and, in turn, invite them to return for some more fun).

IP addresses are not considered personal information.  An IP address points to your ISP who, in turn, routes whatever it is that needs to be routed to you (and that part of the address is personal and private........it requires a court order for the ISP to disclose that information).  You would have to hack the ISP to get the hard address to the person's computer........and you might wind up in jail over that (griefers might be a pain in the a$$ but I don't think many are smart enough (or dumb enough) to go that route.......that's for the hackers with some reward other than sh**s and giggles (which is what your typical griefer is in the game for).

Use your IP sniffers at your own risk........you might find out what a hardware ban is all about if you go too far with it.  Then you'll find out how expensive it might be to get around that type of ban (yes, it can be done.......if your smart enough and have some spare computer components laying around and know how to install them).

[161488303349]

you right about IP addresses being public info

[jwenting]

IP address tracking is a TOS violation, period. As is any way of tracking people using other means than those provided by LL themselves.

It's also as said futile and silly. It won't "detect" griefers or alts (the attempted detection of which is another TOS violation as under the TOS they are allowed, and pretty much anyone has them), it WILL lead to many false positives as many people have shared IP addresses with many others (university dorms, some cable providers, DHCP connected users may have new IP address on every login, etc. etc.).

[161488303349]

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jwenting wrote:

IP address tracking is a TOS violation, period.

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no its not

if i have a bunch of sims that has a mediastream. then i need the IP address to connect the listeners to my stream. by default that will tell me on which of my sims that happens and when

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the violation occurs when what i  learn from this about which  avatars/accounts maybe using the same IP address and i share that information with another party without getting consent from the avatar/accounts

 

 

[Leia36]

The redzone creator was tracked and punished, he spent time in prison RL and was banned under law from going near SL for 2 years

http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/2011/08/01/redzone-creator-goes-to-prison/

That said If you look on the left of the page under recent comments it seems that IP tracking is alive and well, even available on MP.

A good point from another thread is that you very well might have 2 people in the same house on SL, why should both be punished for one person's idiot behavior?

Also there was one person who was fighting this, Forceme Silverspar. She had a list of violators on her blog page but sadly she pulled her blog a few months ago.

[Cerise Sorbet]

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Jordann Braveheart wrote:

So is it safe to assume if you keep streaming media off, that they will not be able to track you?

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Voice is another place that can potentially be leaky too.

 

I think that by now, everybody knows that IP address matching can have false positives and false negatives, but it can still be used to annoy and harass people.

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: "For the major, hardcore, bans they block MAC addresses from the computer of the user they want to permaban."
Seriously? Since the MAC-Address never leaves your home network, the viewer transmitting it could be the only source.
So, a rogue viewer, which blocks/disrespects other security features as well, could fake them.
Plus, I have 6 WLAN-adaptors, 2 PCI-network cards, 3 USB-network adaptors and 2 PCs.
That's quite a number of MAC-Addresses. And seeing LL's abysmal handling of griefers (see the Vortex-sandbox-thread),
that could last a long time. Oh, and the PCI-cards have a tool included to change the MAC-Address.
So, how many Addresses fit into 48 bit? 2^48 = 2,814749767107e+014

Everyone, who is a bit more intelligent than your garden variety  griefer can easily circumvent a MAC-Address-block.

Best solution on the Lab's side: Fast acting on ARs. If a griefer is kicked out in less than an hour -in serious cases like
terrorforming- almost immediately, this would quickly stop this behaviour.
Sure, new accounts are easy to make, but when they don't even last more than a few hours,
that takes the fun out of griefing rather quickly.

 

[Nova Convair]

1st: parcel media and shared media don't autoplay for me. If I don't want to reveal the IP for an alt I switch of voice for that avatar aswell and dont click links. Problem solved.

2nd: If I'd had plans to grief someone I would switch the IP anyways when switching alts, so I don't understand that "IP-ban" nonsense babbling.

3rd: the mac adress is not visible in the internet - only the viewer could tell Lindens the mac - but: I can type in a new one for the network adapter or router anytime so why would I care?

The possibilities to get someones IP are:

Parcel music or shared media if they autoplay everything in range. I see a big problem in a busy sim where avatars tp in and out all the time though. Try to match 3 avatars entrys and 3 media streams for example.

Voice has loopholes. Needs to be switched off to be safe.

Any link clicked reveals the IP to the webserver, but you need someone to click a link at the time you know to match IP and avatar. So a link in chat isn't usable most times.

 

[AgentDetective]

You don't need to be a SIM Owner to do it.
It's Hit and Miss for people who try.
It can't be done to you if you know how to avoid it.
If it has been done to you, it is easy to trick stalkers into a wild goosechase.

[Qie Niangao]

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My question is if it's still possible that sim owners are doing it, and if you keep your streaming media off, if that prevents anyone from tracking you?

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It would prevent some people from tracking you--specifically, those who'd use media. And as already mentioned, it's possible to do some variants of IP tracking without owning the sim. The details are complicated and I'm not sure how much of that is of interest, but generally speaking, the more stuff you turn off (media attached to avatars, auto-playing media, media in general, voice, parcel audio), the narrower the options for tracking, the more computing needed to match an IP with an avatar, and the less reliable the results.

I don't know of any way to track if all of that is turned off, nor if all is routed through an anonymizing proxy (not that I recommend wasting their bandwidth for something as inconsequential as Second Life).

[Sigren Panthar]

The IP gathering spyware/software used by paranoid sim and club/mall owners is still going strong. Paranoia re. griefers and copybotters - which the creators of the IP spyware, naturally, inflame - and a lack of faith in LL's ability to deal quickly with these issues, forces many to buy these things. Redzone was not banned by LL because they gave a monkey's about your privacy. It was on sale for a considerable time, before LL acted and banned it and the creator. The reason LL acted was because a lot of residents had the temerity to force a Jira way up high, so LL actually had to earn their wages for once and act. Even then, the main reason they acted was because the anti-IP gathering-spyware group known as Greenzone was becoming very successful in splitting the grid into approved non-spyware using clubs and malls, and blacklisting the clubs and malls that were paranoid/desired being able to ID an alt for whatever reason. Creators were being affected simply by having a vendor near a redzone device that they themselves were unaware of and some other creator had set up. The false positives Redzone gave were astonishing; a friend who bought it to find out exactly how it worked, scanned me with it. According to the redzone device I had 6 alts. Whilst I have some alts, they are considerably less than 6, not to mention the fact that none of the 6 were even correct and mine. Truly woeful. Yet, virtually identical systems still flourish in SL. Sim/club/mall owners still fall for the 'it will stop griefers and alts hitting sploders (shouldn't they be banned as gambling, in any case?) and midnight mania boards, etc.' I have suspicions that there also exists another alt detecting system at large in SL, that is more accurate at alt detecing. Time will tell. However, it will be residents that raise any red flags. LL will do the bare minimum, and belatedly, as they did with Redzone which they knew full well about months and months before the whole thing got too big for them to ignore.

[GothGirl Demonia]

Yes there is.

1. CDS is supposedly an Anti CopyBot system but its been abused over the years and logs IP addresses without users consent through media to obtain viewer information. The creator claims it doesn't but he can't prove to me it doesn't violates my privacy rights by storing information UUID,Key Name, and Possibly other information without consent, defames my avatar, and Second Life by telling everyone I am a Bot which obviously I am not winks.

2. Red Zone, did the same exact thing but was removed.

3. There are Other Anti Bot systems that do the same thing supposedly I have never been flagged by this one yet supposedly it asks consent, do not give it consent if you go to any clubs using it.

To avoid being logged.

1. Turn off Media, Leave Media Filter On, Never enable media at a parcel or club for any reason if you want to play music use the link through a proxy program such as TOR or a secure IP hiding application.

2. Turn off voice I am unsure if the IP logging exploit still works through voice but it did at one point was possible to obtain IP addresses of everyone on SL voice.

There are a lot of Clubs in Second Life who do the illegal IP logging, I can't really give the names here although I really wouldn't be breaking rules I wouldn't think I don't want to take the chance of doing such, but I can say that these clubs are well known and well designed clubs.

Also RolePlay simulators and huds do IP logging through their Websites without telling anyone, and track peoples alts this way, and possibly through huds you may attach, so be wary of where you play and what huds you put on same rules follow keep off media, keep off voice.

Also another thing I am uncertain of.

Do not load URL's in Second Life.
Turn OFF Java Script when visiting places you don't know of or Links you are uncertain of there are over 1 million computers compromised due to Java exploit.
Turn off Cookies as they can contain tracking cookies that log Information without consent.

Since Second Life, and LL is a U.S based business I honestly believe LL should warn, and ban anyone in violation of another users privacy, but its sad they don't unless a lot of people argue, and then those I know of who constantly brag about Linden Friends and nothing gets done Ive seen Griefers, Trolls, and Griefers Sim Owners supporting IP Theft, and worse and LL does nothing. );

 

Yes IP Addresses are Public Information, but in the wrong hands people still use IP addresses to Out other peoples alts, Grief, and Troll others without consent.

[Melita Magic]

It was good to see that LL listened to the resident majority about IP trackers. Most people did not want it. Many even were about to quit SL because of it. Many quit going to any business which used it. It was serious. It felt good when they listened and banned use of them.

I still do not completely trust that no one's rigged their own version of one or that other brands aren't selling - I don't pull that out of thin air, I've heard it happens. So I still leave music off. I miss it.

I do not think those are necessary and I never did. I ran a wide open sim. What is better is to simply become a keen observer. It's amazing what you can tell even about an avatar by watching it, listening, etc. I don't mean chat spies. But just paying attention.

It's the difference between profiling at airports, as Israel does, and the ham handed TSA.

[Sigren Panthar]

Really? Pray tell me when LL listened to the residents concern re' IP spyware?

[Ceka Cianci]

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Sigren Panthar wrote:

Really? Pray tell me when LL listened to the residents concern re' IP spyware?

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when they first decided to make the changes in the TOS as well as pulled redzone off the MP over 5 times as residents watched each time it came back..let alone banned it and the products similar to it and still do to this day when they are found out and reported..

if there were not enough residents making complaints about redzone and quickware and others starting to pop up..the TOS change would not have happened and redzone and quickware and the others that came that were banned shortly after would still be around..

i remember the linden going into the redzone sim the day they banned it from SL..there was a whole group of people in the sim cheering them on..

i wasn't in there ..but  were checking out the screenshots  before and after the linden came..

and the people were posting up in the redzone thread as it was happening over in the other forums that were at the sim..

that thread happened to be where this certain linden was visiting from time to time and communicating with us while this whole redzone thing was going on...

there are a few long long threads over at slu on this ..there used to be in these forums..but as this forums was lighting up with redzone thread after redzone thread..LL decided to make a change to these forums and took them offline for 10 days lol..

funny how things line up hehehe

they heard thier customers..

they didn't move mountains or anything..but they did do something because of the amount of people going on about it for a couple of years beforehand..it finally got to where everyone was talking about redzone..

 

media viewer was their big thing at the time..and tons of people were hearing to shut off media because of these trackers..

it's been awhile and i'm a bit rusty on the subject..and really don't hang in sl much anymore..but i remember the changes they made and why..hehehe