Do you see any difference in marketing by LL yet?

[Madeliefste Oh]

Linden lab doesn't have a history of promoting it's own product, except from free promotion in traditional media channels. Now since a few months we have this new VP of Marketing. 

"Lee Senderov joined Linden Lab as VP of Marketing in July 2012 with over a decade of experience in online marketing and e-commerce. Previously, she was VP, US Comparison Shopping and Online Marketing for Become.com where she worked closely with over 3,500 of the top online retailers as well as with strategic partners such as Google and eBay.

She also ran Broadspan Commerce, a conglomerate of e-commerce sites (like Totalbedroom.com and Directlyhome.com) specializing in home furnishings and decor. Earlier in her career, she oversaw marketing for the Naked Juice Company’s East Coast operations where she was on a team that grew the business and subsequently sold it to PepsiCo in 2006. Lee holds an MBA from The Harvard Business School and a BA in History with minors in French, Spanish and Italian from Brandeis University."
(source: dwellonit)

Her background is interesting, but is she taking any actions yet? Anybody who saw improvements in how LL promotes SL?

 

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Oh, you thought she was hired to promote SL? I just naturally assumed that she was hired to promote LLs other products.

Or maybe she's just been busy baking cupcakes.

Lee's Creation: Lee enjoys cooking and many of her creations are inspired in the kitchen. Here are some Mouse Cupcakes she created out of cherries, almonds and chocolate. (http://www.lindenlab.com/about)

[Porky Gorky]

LL bought in Kim Salzer in 2010 from Activision Blizzard as VP of Marketing. She had an impressive CV and promised big things but in the end she completely failed to deliver. Based on her past experience she definitely had the skills, so this begs the question, what went wrong? One assumption is that her hands were tied by upper management. 

So I have to wonder, no matter how impressive our new VP of Marketing looks on paper, will she actually have the freedom and resources to do her job effectively or is it just going to be Kim Salzer all over again?

[WADE1 Jya]

== Hahaha its not marketing for SL! They don't believe in SL anymore & are scared to invest in it anymore.

As I surf the web, I've definitely been targeted with all together way too many ads from Linden Lab for their new products "Creatorverse" and "Patterns". Needless to say I have zero interest so that is money wasted.

These campaigns for Linden's new products are probably her work efforts. SL only remains as a shrinking fund resource for Lindens to cannibilize from and make more iPhone apps. They will never advertise SL.

 

[Ciaran Laval]

Linden Lab closed down the affiliate program a couple of months ago, but they have been making much better use of Google Adsense lately, tjhey're also planning to expand Second Life  to Steam. Patterns is already on Steam.

[Porky Gorky]

---

WADE1 Jya wrote:

They will never advertise SL.

 

---

Well this isn't true as they are already advertising SL on web banner ads as well as making the viewer accessible through steam  soon which should also act as promotion for the platform. Just this past summer they released an ad in google adsense targetted at female IMVU users aged between 18 and 24. So there is ongoing marketting happening, but the bottom line is it is not enough. I don't think it is a case that LL have given up marketing SL, it's more of a case that they have never properly marketed SL and that remains the case to this day.

[Pamela Galli]

---

Porky Gorky wrote:

---

WADE1 Jya wrote:

They will never advertise SL.

 

---

Just this past summer they released an ad in google adsense targetted at female IMVU users aged between 18 and 24. 

---

That's good, LL,  but what about their mums? They are the ones with the money (and for many, the time).

[Porky Gorky]

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

That's good, LL,  but what about their mums? They are the ones with the money (and for many, the time).

---

 

Maybe they already have, I don't know. I just remember reading an article relating to the 18 to 24 year olds. Looking at their 2012 demographics there is definitely a mature userbase to tap into.

 

[Pamela Galli]

What's that a graph of?

[WADE1 Jya]

---

Porky Gorky wrote:

---

WADE1 Jya wrote:

They will never advertise SL.

 

---

Well this isn't true as they are already advertising SL on web banner ads as well as making the viewer accessible through steam  soon which should also act as promotion for the platform. Just this past summer they released an ad in google adsense targetted at female IMVU users aged between 18 and 24. So there is ongoing marketting happening, but the bottom line is it is not enough. I don't think it is a case that LL have given up marketing SL, it's more of a case that they have never properly marketed SL and that remains the case to this day.

---

Sorry yes technically I'm incorrect. Should have said: They will never seriously advertise SL in any functional sustainable way. :cathappy: ==

[Porky Gorky]

---

WADE1 Jya wrote:

Sorry yes technically I'm incorrect. Should have said:

They will never seriously advertise SL in any functional sustainable way. :cathappy:

=

=

---

Ha ha well I was being pedantic. That's just the way Porky Rolls :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Porky Gorky]

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

What's that a graph of?

---

This graph show the average age of IMVU users. The column on the left is the percentage of the userbase, the row on the bottom are the age ranges. I guess this data is taken at registration and there are 50 million registered users apparently. You were the teacher so I will let you do the math, but in my brain that equates to a shed load of 35 to 54 yrs olds for LL/SL to target their ads at.

[Pamela Galli]

Oh IMVU -- well I am surprised there are so many mum-age ppl. 

[Medhue Simoni]

Yeah, I've seen advertisments for Patterns on just about every website that I goto related to 3d content. I've seen nothing for SL tho.

[WADE1 Jya]

== Yes, whatever marketing budget might have been allocated towards sustaining SL for this month, it was eaten up by Patterns & Creatorverse. It has become a self-reenforcing cycle, where Lindens see the SL grid shrink month to month & week to week, these stats reinforce their idea that SL is worthless to pursue, so SL receives no marketing budget. SL starves as they feed iPhone games directly from its diminishing carcass. Not challenging to predict where this trend leads.

[Czari Zenovka]

---

Porky Gorky wrote:

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

That's good, LL,  but what about their mums? They are the ones with the money (and for many, the time).

---

 

Maybe they already have, I don't know. I just remember reading an article relating to the 18 to 24 year olds. Looking at their 2012 demographics there is definitely a mature userbase to tap into.

 

---

And on the flip side...

The following is an excerpt from one of my posts on an MMORPG's forum last year when a thread was started asking how old people were:

#####

I recently happened across this quote in a fashion magazine. I clipped the article but threw away the magazine so I can't say with certainty which one it is from, but this is the direct quote:

POWER PLAYS

 

Once dominated by adolescents, online games are getting a face lift and becoming relaxation and entertainment for a booming and trendy female demographic.

 

WHO'S GAMING: Women are venturing into the gaming world in record numbers. "According to our recent survey, 71 percent of women playing computer games are 40 and older," says Jason Kapalka, co-founder and chief creative officer of PopCap Games. The survey showed that 88 percent of female gamers said they play to relieve stress, and 74 percent identified mental exercise as a significant benefit.

 

WHY IT WORKS: The games plug into sporadic pockets of time, granting access to a virtual world that provides cognitive exercise. Progress saves automatically, eliminating the need to restart. According to psychologist and author Dr. Carl Arinoldo, "Casual nonviolent word and puzzle computer games can also develop new cellular brain connections, keeping the brain healthy, active, and vital."

So, at least of the female gaming population, 71 percent are 40+ according to this survey. From personal experience, I find this true. I first became involved in online chat rooms via IRC (Internet Relay Chat) shortly after the IBM Personal Computer was introduced in 1981. Those that I chatted with on a daily basis were my age or older. As the PC clones began flooding the marketplace, driving down the initial price of an IBM PC, making a PC more accessible to less affluent clientele plus software becoming more sophisticated, it would make sense that those of us who were adults when the PC was first introduced and enjoyed being online would continue participating in various ways, one of which is gaming.

[i stated how and when became involved in the MMORPG on whose site I was posting then continued...]

I have been primarily a part of SecondLife the past 4 1/2 years. As SL is a virtual community and not a game, the age range is wide due to the vast amount of diverse content; however, due to the "adult nature" of some of the SL community, one previously had to be 18+ to join, with a separate teen grid for 12-18. That was changed about a year ago. The teen grid was closed, 16+ is now the new age limit, and everything overtly "adult" was moved to a separate region where one has to be age-verified to enter. Again, it could be due to the places I frequent in SL, but most of the people I encounter are minimally 35+ with most being older.

 

Me? A lady never divulges her age. But let's just say that 40+ is accurate.

 

EDIT TO ADDD: The mid-40's are among the youngest of the Baby Boomers; the oldest entering retirement age. This generation was also known as trend-setters. It stands to reason that this age demographic (in general) would have the interest, the income, and the time to engage in their chosen past times.

####

I agree that there is a large demographic in the 18-24 range but the key is, as many have observed in forums, blogs, etc. ever since LL joined Steam, how many in this age range stay with a given game/virtual world for long?  Many in this demographic jump to "the next cool thing" regularly.

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Porky Gorky wrote:

[...] One assumption is that her hands were tied by upper management. 

So I have to wonder, no matter how impressive our new VP of Marketing looks on paper, will she actually have the freedom and resources to do her job effectively or is it just going to be Kim Salzer all over again?

---

LL and marketers... I think they gag them, hogtie them, and throw them in an iron maiden...

They seem to absolutely hate the idea of actually trying to sell their own products...

 

EDIT. Or maybe not:

---

WADE1 Jya wrote:

 

As I surf the web, I've definitely been targeted with all together way too many ads from Linden Lab for their new products "Creatorverse" and "Patterns". Needless to say I have zero interest so that is money wasted.

---

 That's Fetchback most likely. Small potatoes. Its an automated service that spams ads at people of places they've been to in the past to try and get them to come back. If they're small 'standard sized' little images on certain typical spots of a page layout - that's fetchback.

The same adverts can be cycled into google as well, and served up on sites that display google ads. Which try to display based on a combination of your search history, browser history, and current viewing to predict likely interests.

This is more passive marketing. You put up those ads, and then behind the scenes tweak variables all day long like how much to pay for bidding to show an ad here or there... You don't actually ever engage with your consumer or likely consumer. Kind of makes sense that a pack of "tech geeks" would go in for this rather than a more vocal and engaged system...

- But they really should be running it for SL too...

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Porky Gorky wrote:

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

What's that a graph of?

---

This graph show the average age of IMVU users.

---

Oh whew. For a second I thought that was supposed to be a claim of SL users - and was thinking "Oh that explains all the free-XXX clubs..."

My nephew needs to make his Facebook page more private... =^^=

 

[WADE1 Jya]

maybe some of it is fetchback. but i'm getting it everywhere...its in my gmail ad bar just now, and its on iOS related sites. they got adsense google ads too. also on sites with paid advertising i am familiar with to know the ad packages. they are campaigning heavy. biggest packages available, full screen splash ads and top of page banner ads. none of it for SL (of course)...

[Theresa Tennyson]

Let's say you're a machine-tool company specializing in centerless grinders [an insanely huge and complicated piece of machinery that's very versatile and powerful once you know how to use it and have a REASON to.] You want your company to griow. One way of doing it, I suppose, would be to take out an ad for centerless grinders during the Super Bowl. But you might find that most people who see your ad either dont' see the need for a centerless grinder or perhaps look at one and instantly become intimidated.

Or you could introduce a line of consumer tools. If they're good tools that people find a use for, they might get into building. And when they do, some of them might decide they're so into making things they could use something more capable; say, a centerless grinder. And when they look for a centerless grinder they'd be more likely to go to a manufacturer of items they already know and trust.

Second Life's great advantage over activities like World of Warcraft and IMVU is its open-ended, building-oriented nature. However, it's necessarily very complex and difficult to get into quickly because of this. Remember, plenty of people know enough about SL that thousands create accounts every day; the problem is getting them to stay.

All of LInden Lab's new products are simple, but they iare all creative and nvolve some activity that's part of Second Life. Patterns involves building. Creatorverse involves creating what are basically scripted objects. Dio involves creating personalized spaces. Versu involves roleplaying. People who get into these programs may find they're interested enough to explore something that lets them develop these interests more - something perhaps like Second Life.

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

WADE1 Jya wrote:

=

=

Yes, whatever marketing budget might have been allocated towards sustaining SL for this month, it was eaten up by Patterns & Creatorverse. It

has become a

self-re

enforcing cycle

, where Lindens see the SL grid shrink month to month & week to week, these stats reinforce their idea that SL is worthless to pursue, so SL receives n

o

marketing budget.

SL starves as they feed

iPhone games directly from its diminishing carcass.

Not

challenging to predict where this trend leads

.

---

I find it amusing that you wrote this directly above your signature banner that says, "Try my iPhone game for free!"

[Pussycat Catnap]

That's how fetchback works. It gets -EVERYWHERE-...

My company ran it until we noticed it was getting a little -too- everywhere. Makes people feel like they're being stalked. Its one thing to realize intellectually how well Google tracks where people go online. Its a whole other to have it in your face 'Facebook style'. Its still all anonymous, unlike Facebook - but seeing it can get a little uncomfortable.

- And we've seen it lock onto somebody like a pink poodle on a mailman's leg after only one triggering event. You could be in the 'system' from as little as the online version of a press release if they're think the rest of your demographics is "ideal."

 

[WADE1 Jya]

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

I find it amusing that you wrote this directly above your signature banner that says, "Try my iPhone game for free!"

---

yeh me too! ah the irony... :cathappy: my interests while on the net are currently iPhone/iPad & SL. perhaps why i seem to be facing the full brunt of their ad storm here. the perfect candidate i suppose for their campaigns? LOL if this is all fetchback i gotta say wow that is an invasive aggressive ad system!

[Amie Kaestner]

I haven't seen any adverts for Patterns or Creatorverse. I only learned of Patterns when I went to log in to SL and saw it in the corner.

[WADE1 Jya]

i am on some bizarre targeting list. i get lots of ads for raytheon missiles. even though i never expressed interest to buy any & have no wish to procure? i suppose with targeting ads everyone's web experience is quite different, perhaps surprisingly so :catvery-happy: