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Why No RLV?


Eden Marquis
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Hi Eden

I think it is because RLV is something not everyone who uses SL needs in the viewer. If you sail mostly or even only, you not need RLV. And if creators tools come alive you not need RLV for gridwide teleporting. So RLV is a partial solution used by part of residents. The SL viewer needs only stuff every SL resident uses mostly. So the current solution is to have the official SL viewer and the third party viewers implement the RLV. This solution works actually good.

Perhaps the better solution would be modular viewers when the SL viewer offrs a framework for plug-ins (one for inventory, one for world map and so on)and you as user simply install the plug-in you need, like it is done by Eclipse.

Than RLV would be simply a plug-in to install. This solution needs plently of work i think, though.

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V3 is also intended to be the starter viewer for new accounts, and the viewer that Linden Lab has to provide support for. RLV is a feature that you really need to be familiar with before you get involved with it and I think they feel it would cause too many support and potential griefing problems for new users.

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Most people do not use the RLV, only those that are in the BDSM or Gor community for the most part.  While that is a large population,they are still a minority of residents.

The RLV was also developed by a third party and not from open source code supplied by LL.  The developers own the IP rights to it, not LL, so there may be copyright and license issues involved.  Not to say that LL couldn't get a license for it, however that  would be up for negotiation.

I am sure from LL's point of view it is better that they let TPV's supply that need, not them.

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Eden Marquis wrote:

Why doesn't V3 Support RLV, and will it ever.  Forces me to Firestorm

It doesn't force you to use Firestorm.

Marine Kelly makes the Restrained Love Viewer, which looks and feels very like the Official Viewer.   So does Catznip, made by Kitty Barnett and Trinity DejaVu, which is the development viewer for RLVa.  Dolphin uses RLV and Exodus and Niran's  use RLVa.   

If you prefer a V1-style UI, then Singularity uses RLVa and Cool VL uses RLV.  (Imprudence and Phoenix also have a very old version of RLVa, but since that hasn't been updated in about 2 years, I wouldn't recommend them, at least not for use with RLV toys).

 

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Be glad that there are still rlv enabled viewers left, rlv could also have been removed completely from SL by LL due to the new TPV policy, as it alters the 'shared experience'  which is not allowed anymore (and, by the way blocks progress  massively). rlv was taken out of the 'altered shared experience' by LL though, so it could still be offered by TPVs.

Official viewers will never have rlv, or do you think that a company that uses skins with unremoveable underwear on their starter avatars will offer rlv?

J.

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I don't think RLV use will result in any breaking of a shared experience. It of course depends what exactly is considered a shared experience. If you ask me, daylight settings can result in a non shared experience. I'm glad LL doesn't put a ban on that:)

What without a doubt resulted in a non shared experience were the breast (and bum?) wobble in the old Emerald viewer. They would make an avatar appear differently to different people. This is not what RLV does, anyone using a non-RLV viewer can still use the RLV scripted items on another avatar. Hence a shared experience. There's a big gray area in between though, I'm curious where LL draws the line.

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I'd define shared experience also as: Being able to wear/attach what I want, go, where others can go, see what others can see, type and read  freely in IMs,  local and group chats. Something which is not always the case with activated RLV restrictions, so it alters the sl experience for restricted rlv users and so every rlv user can be grateful that LL has allowed rlv in some tpvs.

J.

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Jean Horten wrote:

I'd define shared experience also as: Being able to wear/attach what I want, go, where others can go, see what others can see, type and read  freely in IMs,  local and group chats.

'Shared experience' is mostly a vague term that LL can now use to veto-out any feature they don't like, that's all it is. The definition isn't important, neither is being able to determine why or why not some features are exempt.

The applied reasoning behind it not affecting (and won't affect) RLV, is mostly that RLV only provided scripted access to controls that users already have access to; it doesn't add or change anything, except how existing processes and features are activated and controlled. It also only affects the user with RLV activated (and it is difficult for an observer to determine whether RLV or manual activity is responsible when changes occur), and provides no unusual traffic along any other process or stream. RLV is incredibly easy to implement and maintain, mostly due to its origins as a 'mod', rather than a feature.

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Jean Horten wrote:

I'd define shared experience also as: Being able to wear/attach what I want, go, where others can go, see what others can see, type and read  freely in IMs,  local and group chats. Something which is not always the case with activated RLV restrictions, so it alters the sl experience for restricted rlv users and so every rlv user can be grateful that LL has allowed rlv in some tpvs.

J.

Rather more relevant, though, is how LL defines "shared experience".   

Oz goes some way towards that in his answers to some questions here,     There's also a summary in Nalates' blog  of the TPV meeting where the policy was initially announced and discussed (with a link to that meeting) and summaries by Inara Pey and by Nalates Uriah in their respective blogs  of his interview with Jessica Lyons.

"Shared Experience" refers to stuff that needs a special viewer to see it properly, like the illegal Emerald attachment points or (if LL weren't taking it over) Qarl's deformer.   It doesn't refer to client-side settings (so different people may have very different visual experiences of SL because they've got different windlight settings, or even simply draw distances) or being allowed to access particular sims or devices.

LL has always made it clear that RLV isn't caught by the shared experience policy.

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Innula Zenovka wrote:


Jean Horten wrote:

I'd define shared experience also as: Being able to wear/attach what I want, go, where others can go, see what others can see, type and read  freely in IMs,  local and group chats. Something which is not always the case with activated RLV restrictions, so it alters the sl experience for restricted rlv users and so every rlv user can be grateful that LL has allowed rlv in some tpvs.

J.

Rather more relevant, though, is how LL defines "shared experience".   

Oz goes some way towards that in his
     There's also a
 of the TPV meeting where the policy was initially announced and discussed (with a link to that meeting) and summaries by
 and by
in their respective blogs  of his interview with Jessica Lyons.

"Shared Experience" refers to stuff that needs a special viewer to see it properly, like the illegal Emerald attachment points or (if LL weren't taking it over) Qarl's deformer.   It doesn't refer to client-side settings (so different people may have very different visual experiences of SL because they've got different windlight settings, or even simply draw distances) or being allowed to access particular sims or devices.

LL has always made it clear that RLV isn't caught by the shared experience policy.

Simple explanation.

You can't have a function that looks OK to you but looks like crap to me.

Only Linden Lab is allowed to do that.

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Oz Linden has looked at RLV for the SL viewer. There is no decision on whether to add RLV or just add some of the RLV features. But, they are considering adding some RLV capabilities. 

I think the Experience Permissions System has to be worked out before they take on adding RLV like features to the viewer. The features Oz seemed most intersted in were the ones that would allow better games within SL. These are features that would make adding game controls easier.

So, there is a possiblity some form of RLV will get added someday.

I've seen instructions for installing RLV into the SL Viewer 3.x. Sorry I forget where. But check the RLV site.

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