Did SL get laggier, or is it just me?

[DarkestCell]

Alright, so I stopped playing for a few months, before Is stopped everything was fantastic, I used firestorm or Exodus without a problem! But I recently returned to find that both those viewers, even phoenix, lag horrible, THE ONLY VIEWER THAT WASN'T LAGGING WAS THE OFFICIAL ONE! What a surprise right? I also noticed a lot of new...SL features.
FYI
4 GB ram
intel core i3   U 330 1.20GHZ
Operating system = 64bits
Windows 7
NVIDIA  GeForce GT 335M

[BabiiLette]

I just signed up and I can't do anything): it's just keeps freezing and is the screen supposed to be pink? or it just black out and won't do anything!

 

[Jo Yardley]

it was very very laggy for me today but we did have a big event with a lot of traffic, so I didn't think it might be SL's fault.

[Pussycat Catnap]

All kinds of factors can contribute to lag.

But chief among them is people who are wearing script heavy items.

When it gets really laggy, look for some place like an empty ocean mainland sim, and go there. If its still laggy - its you. If not, it was somebody or something where you were.

 

In the official viewer you can always use About Land, and then the script info button - to check not land scripts, but your own.

- Yeah, odd logic there, but that's where it is.

Try to stay as low as you can. Under 1mb is nearly always good (barring a badly written script). Above 5mb is nearly always bad. In between is the "maybe good maybe not" terriroty.

 

If you're at a busy event - one single visitor with bad scripts can kill the experience for -everyone- there... So that's likely what happened to Jo. If you own the land the event is at, you can put a quick end to this by turning off scripts. People will lose their fancy dance HUDs... which are rarely lag causers... but its worth it to knock out that one primma-donna in scripted shoes / hair...

 

 

[Rhys Goode]

I am not an expert, but your system seems to be a bit underwhelming for SL.  My old computer had just 4GB ram, and I had to be careful about what was running in the background, or SL would lag a lot because it was running low on RAM, swaping out to disk.

Oh, and no, I have not noticed anything about SL being slower than normal.

[Conifer Dada]

For me, SL performance has deteriorated a lot in the last few weeks.

Typically, when I arrive somewhere, 75% of the surroundings rez quickly, but the last 25% can take several minutes.

Also no avatars are visible for a minute or two, then they gradually appear - often in the arms outstretched default pose.

And as avatars rez, lots of 'flat grey cards' appear round their necks like a big ruff for a second or two. 

Once everything and everybody has rezzed - which can take 5 minutes - performance is OK, with not much lag.

[Thinkerer Melville]

Babiilette--

Your experience sounds like a problem with your graphics card.  Be sure your driver is up to date.  Go to the manfacturer's web site and check.  If you need more help, post again with your computer specs.  

TKR

[Linda Brynner]

Hi,

About lag many factors come into play, however lag has increased indeed for many is what i do understand inworld.

 

There 2 reasons at Linden Lab's side

one: LL has recently changed to another data location. Two: All viewers based on the new rendering engine plus mesh capable have had a major drop in Basic FPS. The latter is one of the biggest critisism about Second Life today seen on the internet. Firestorm, LL official viewer and all viewers based on 3 or 4 (FS) have the same problem. Terribly low Basic FPS. And this causes a very choppy and constant freezing experience, hence you can't move very well or not at all.

I've been trying all viewers availabe today on the same system. Phoenix has high FPS, but i's heavy like FS and it is phased out.

The Singularity Viewer (SV) has all new features is based on the new rendering engine, and mesh, is stable and Basic FPS is very high compared to all other viewers. No one ever thought it was possible, however SV has proven it actually is. SV uses the V1 user interface, but if you don't mind that - it also has a dark black glassy theme like Emerald had -, i suppose it will the the viewer for you, specially looking at your computer specifications which are basically light for SL in the first place. 

 

From your side:

Seeing your computer specs:

Use SV, don't use a wallpaper with windows, do not use the Windows glass theme, start SL from a fresh started computer, make certain no other programs are running, disable all automatic updates of windows and all other applications, don't use SL while having Windows Outlook run in the back ground, turn off and disconnect the power cord of your modem/router and apply it again before you start SL (routers need a clean fresh memory, power off/on isn't enough, the power cable litterly needs to be pulled out for 3 minutes and then pulled in again), set your bandwidth at 1200 max in SL preferences (SL hardly provides more, max 2000 in 2/3/4 viewers). Turn off: water reflections, AA, Anistropic filtering, shadows, Lightning and shadows, set draw distance at 64 - 100.

 

Just a few powerful matters to consider.

Have fun

 

[TristanMercer]

---

Linda Brynner wrote:.

 

 Firestorm, LL official viewer and all viewers based on 3 or 4 (FS) have the same problem. Terribly low Basic FPS. And this causes a very choppy and constant freezing experience, hence you can't move very well or not at all.

 

---

Umm, what rock are you living under?

Any V1 codebase viewer will eventually break, you do realize this right? All LL has to do it break it server side and then any TPV that uses V1 codebase is screwed. LL is not doing that as of yet, but it WILL happen.

 

I am actually using the latest Firestorm Beta and my fps kicks. You need to understand graphic settings. Granted I have a pretty decent computer, along with a very generous graphics card, a GTX 650ti. Even on my old graphics card, I was getting on average 30fps with a GT 520 on high settings.

The GTX 650ti has turned that 30 into over 100 on high. I can easily run shadows and ultra and still have no video lag whatsoever.

99% of the video lag that is in SL is on the client side, meaning YOUR COMPUTER. I just love how you blame a viewer, LL, and anything else but your own machine.

[Porky Gorky]

---

Linda Brynner wrote:

Firestorm, LL official viewer and all viewers based on 3 or 4 (FS) have the same problem. Terribly low Basic FPS. And this causes a very choppy and constant freezing experience, hence you can't move very well or not at all.

I've been trying all viewers availabe today on the same system. Phoenix has high FPS, but i's heavy like FS and it is phased out.

 

---

I think all that this demonstrates is that you need to upgrade your hardware. I regularly use both V3 and firestorm. On ultra settings today I get an average 70 - 100 FPS in my quiet build space and about 30 - 40 FPS in the bussiest regions I know of. 

Incidentally these are the FPS I get on a normal day when I have 3DS Max and Photoshop open, plus a media player and a browser running, plus anti virus software, anti spyware, anti malware and a firewall running,

My rig:

CPU - Intel Core i7-3820

RAM - 8GB DDR3

GPU - AMD FirePro V5900

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

TristanMercer wrote:

---

Linda Brynner wrote:.

 

 Firestorm, LL official viewer and all viewers based on 3 or 4 (FS) have the same problem. Terribly low Basic FPS. And this causes a very choppy and constant freezing experience, hence you can't move very well or not at all.

 

---

Umm, what rock are you living under?

Any V1 codebase viewer will eventually break, you do realize this right? All LL has to do it break it server side and then any TPV that uses V1 codebase is screwed. LL is not doing that as of yet, but it WILL happen.

 

I am actually using the latest Firestorm Beta and my fps kicks. You need to understand graphic settings. Granted I have a pretty decent computer, along with a very generous graphics card, a GTX 650ti. Even on my old graphics card, I was getting on average 30fps with a GT 520 on high settings.

The GTX 650ti has turned that 30 into over 100 on high. I can easily run shadows and ultra and still have no video lag whatsoever.

99% of the video lag that is in SL is on the client side, meaning YOUR COMPUTER. I just love how you blame a viewer, LL, and anything else but your own machine.

---

Actually some V1 functions have already been broke but so far they have been insignificant, being mainly certain notifications. 

But to the thread in general, I just did a major upgrade to me computer so I can't compare past experience with present.  The only thing I have noticed is are long rez times on crowded SIMs but I may just be needing to tweak my settings.  Other than that it's been awesomely smooth sailing for me.

 

[TristanMercer]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

Actually some V1 functions have already been broke but so far they have been insignificant, being mainly certain notifications. 

But to the thread in general, I just did a major upgrade to me computer so I can't compare past experience with present.  The only thing I have noticed is are long rez times on crowded SIMs but I may just be needing to tweak my settings.  Other than that it's been awesomely smooth sailing for me.

 

---

 

Yea, I know about the insignificant changes. The big one as of late has been large group info not loading or giving off grevious errors.

 

I just updated my graphics card Friday actually.  I am in no powerhouse computer. My 3DMark11 score is decent at P4940 or something like that.

I went as far as going into the Nvidia Control Panel and setting certain features to override Firestorm or to enhance a paricular setting.

 

Open the Nvidia Control Panel >> Manage 3D Settings. Progam to customize is Firestorm. These are my current Nvidia Control Panel settings that I have changed:

Antialialisaing - FXAA  = OFF

Antialialisaing - Gamma Correction = On

Antialiasliaing - Mode = Override any application settings

Antialiasliaing - Setting = 4x

Texture Filtering - Anisotropic sample optimization = OFF

Texture Filtering - Negative LOD Bias = Allow

Threaded Optimation = OFF

Texture Filtering - Anisotropic Filter Optimization = OFF

 

Everything else is set to defaults.

 

My specs:

Operating System:  Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Service Pack 1

CPU Type:  QuadCore Intel Core i5-2320, 3100 MHz (31 x 100)

System Memory: 8172 MB  (DDR3-1333 DDR3 SDRAM)

Video Adapter: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 650 Ti  (2048 MB)

 

[Rhys Goode]

I get very similar FPS,  with both FS and the LL viewer, on my laptop, running high graphics:  70-100+ fps up in my mainland skybox, 20 - 30 fps in the busiest sims I know of.  I don't pay attention to the background programs, but there are almost always a few browser windows, often Gimp and Blender.  While my old computer with 4 Gigs of ram was fussy that way, I see no SL performance hit with any of them on in the background.

Intel i7-2670QM CPU

16 Gig Ram

GeForce GTX 560M/PCIe/SSE2 graphics card

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Linda Brynner wrote:

 

one: LL has recently changed to another data location. Two: All viewers based on the new rendering engine plus mesh capable have had a major drop in Basic FPS. The latter is one of the biggest critisism about Second Life today seen on the internet. Firestorm, LL official viewer and all viewers based on 3 or 4 (FS) have the same problem. Terribly low Basic FPS. And this causes a very choppy and constant freezing experience, hence you can't move very well or not at all.

---

Nope. Not having that problem. I get very high FPS. 40s to 60s regularly.

I use the official V3 from LLs.

 

Firestorm can put any number it wants on the front of its viewer BTW, but its still always about one to half an update -behind- the LLs viewer, then plus a few of its own unique mods. Its really not right to call it '4' as you do above.

 

 

[Teagan Tobias]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

---

Linda Brynner wrote:

 

one: LL has recently changed to another data location. Two: All viewers based on the new rendering engine plus mesh capable have had a major drop in Basic FPS. The latter is one of the biggest critisism about Second Life today seen on the internet. Firestorm, LL official viewer and all viewers based on 3 or 4 (FS) have the same problem. Terribly low Basic FPS. And this causes a very choppy and constant freezing experience, hence you can't move very well or not at all.

---

Nope. Not having that problem. I get very high FPS. 40s to 60s regularly.

I use the official V3 from LLs.

 

Firestorm can put any number it wants on the front of its viewer BTW, but its still always about one to half an update -behind- the LLs viewer, then plus a few of its own unique mods. Its really not right to call it '4' as you do above.

 

 

---

Having the TPVs use different version numbers is a little confusing for some people. I am sure FS is using LLV3 code base and the 4 is just there version number. The same is true with other TPVs, I am using Nirans viewer and the current version is 2.0.4 and it is based on LLV3 code and not LLV2 code as some may think by Nirans numbering. And my frame rate is around 100-150 in my skybox and around 40 in busy places.

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Pussycat Catnap wrote:

---

Linda Brynner wrote:

 

one: LL has recently changed to another data location. Two: All viewers based on the new rendering engine plus mesh capable have had a major drop in Basic FPS. The latter is one of the biggest critisism about Second Life today seen on the internet. Firestorm, LL official viewer and all viewers based on 3 or 4 (FS) have the same problem. Terribly low Basic FPS. And this causes a very choppy and constant freezing experience, hence you can't move very well or not at all.

---

Nope. Not having that problem. I get very high FPS. 40s to 60s regularly.

I use the official V3 from LLs.

 

Firestorm can put any number it wants on the front of its viewer BTW, but its still always about one to half an update -behind- the LLs viewer, then plus a few of its own unique mods. Its really not right to call it '4' as you do above.

 

 

---

Actually it was a mistake for LL not to update the viewer number when they introduced FUI.  The changes were significant enough to warrant a new version  number.

 

 

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

SL did get laggier. It is not only the viewer, that needs more graphic power, it is SL itself as well,
especially the 'lag attacks'. You walk normally, suddenly everything slows down like slow motion video
for a few seconds, then reverts to normal, often followed by a massive jump forward.
And it happens in completely empty sims, where I am the only one in that sim.

When I signed up in 2009, that never happened, when there was lag, there was a real visible reason
(Sim full, griefer attacks, etc.).

It has gotten this worse in the last 6 months. Oh, and it doesn't really depends on the number of breedables
in a sim, that only increases the length and depth of the lag attack, not necessarily the number of attacks.

(I can rule out a local problem as I'm through 2 reinstalls, 2 Mainboards, 1 Graphics card, multiple router resets/reconfigs,
and a bunch of viewer updates.)

 

[TristanMercer]

---

Jadeclaw Denfu wrote:

SL did get laggier. It is not only the viewer, that needs more graphic power, it is SL itself as well,

especially the 'lag attacks'. You walk normally, suddenly everything slows down like slow motion video

for a few seconds, then reverts to normal, often followed by a massive jump forward.

And it happens in completely empty sims, where I am the only one in that sim.

When I signed up in 2009, that never happened, when there was lag, there was a real visible reason

(Sim full, griefer attacks, etc.).

It has gotten this worse in the last 6 months. Oh, and it doesn't really depends on the number of breedables

in a sim, that only increases the length and depth of the lag attack, not necessarily the number of attacks.

(I can rule out a local problem as I'm through 2 reinstalls, 2 Mainboards, 1 Graphics card, multiple router resets/reconfigs,

and a bunch of viewer updates.)

 

---

You do know that there can be up to 4 sims on a single server in SL right? That means it takes only 1 sim that is being griefed, busy, or whatnot to cause the other 3 to lag.

 

Secondly in regards a local problem. If you are running a wireless connection to SL, that alone will cause you to lag as packet loss will usually be quite high no matter how many times you reset or reconfigure your router. You would be surprised at how much in your immediate environment can mess with your computer. Big one being the electrical cords next to net cables, intereference from appliances, phones, and more.

[Rhys Goode]

Regarding packet loss and wireless.  Running wireless does not guarantee massive packet loss, I've been using wi-fi for over 4 years and two routers, and packet loss is hardly ever a problem for me.  But it there is occasional interference, then the packet loss goes up, and I start to rubber band, and lag and jump.  This is very rare at my home, and it never lasts very long, so I tolerate it.  (I mean *very* rare, havent seen it happen at all the last couple of months, online 2 hours a day or more.  Interference can be like that.)

I also log onto SL from hotels around the US, almost always WiFi.  Maybe 1/3 of these connections are unusable for SL, 20 - 30 % packet loss.  Even with good download speed (and good email, web browsing, streaming video with the right app), these links just dont work for SL.  About 1/3 work as well as at home, the rest are degraded but usable.  And packet loss in SL seems to be the biggest factor.  (You can see the number from Help>About)

So, if you are using WiFi you should pay close attention to the packet loss.  But if you don't see more than a few  0.1 %'s of packet loss then its unlikely to be a source of significant lag.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Jadeclaw Denfu wrote:

SL did get laggier. It is not only the viewer, that needs more graphic power, it is SL itself as well,

especially the 'lag attacks'. You walk normally, suddenly everything slows down like slow motion video

for a few seconds, then reverts to normal, often followed by a massive jump forward.

And it happens in completely empty sims, where I am the only one in that sim.

When I signed up in 2009, that never happened, when there was lag, there was a real visible reason

(Sim full, griefer attacks, etc.).

It has gotten this worse in the last 6 months. Oh, and it doesn't really depends on the number of breedables

in a sim, that only increases the length and depth of the lag attack, not necessarily the number of attacks.

(I can rule out a local problem as I'm through 2 reinstalls, 2 Mainboards, 1 Graphics card, multiple router resets/reconfigs,

and a bunch of viewer updates.)

 

---

Just out of curiosity I browsed through your posting history in the Forum and I can't find anywhere that you have ever asked fro help with your problem.  What posts I can find you seem to be focused on "it's a Server problem."  

Now while on a full SIM with 40, 50, 60 or more Avatars I would not consider your problem unusual, the fact that you say you encounter it so much on empty SIMs would cause me to lean toward a problem on your side of the equation.  And it's usually indicative of a poor internet connection.

I'd be curious what your system specs are from Help/About and what your results are from both a speed test and a ping test.

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

I'm on a wired connection, 64MBit Cable internet from Unity Media, the TV-cable provider for this state,
I'm 15 miles east of the dutch border, halfway between the border and Düsseldorf.

The point is: A lag meter on my parcel, the statistics console and the smartmove hud
show a reduced server fps rate and decreased time dilation during these lag attacks.
That's the main reason, why I ruled out a client side problem. Huds and Lag meters
run as scripts on the server. Local fps never changed during these attacks, packet loss is solid 0.000%.
Sim-Ping between 190 and 260ms, Ping / speed to the west coast from Germany using Speedtest.net:
http://www.speedtest.net/result/2338558999.png

This I get to a server here in Germany: http://www.speedtest.net/result/2338579068.png

Tristan Mercer wrote: "You do know that there can be up to 4 sims on a single server in SL right? That means it takes only 1 sim that is being griefed, busy, or whatnot to cause the other 3 to lag."
Aside from the fact, that sometimes up to 10 sims are on one machine, when I had the parcel on the Hubble sim,
I did a lookup, which sims are on that server (see Gridsurvey) and none of them had any suspicious issues or being full.
However, on my current parcel on the Patagonia-sim, it is less often and less severe, than on the Junlong-sim.
Hubble was the worst in this regard, the Freebie-mall on the next door sim (Schirra) is always full with 30 to 35 people,
but that sim was according to Gridsurvey on a different server, so it should not have any effect.

Speaking of wireless, just for fun I did some experiments, including multihop over a second wireless via a netbook with an additional Wifi-stick and ICS enabled. No problems or degradation in performance, as long as the bandwidth stayed above
the bandwidth value set in the viewers configuration AND the connection was stable (good signal)

My boilerplate:

Firestorm 4.2.2 (29837) Aug 27 2012 19:20:05 (Firestorm-Release)
Release Notes

You are at 256,502.0, 260,050.0, 44.1 in Patagonia located at sim8157.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.37.224:13000)
Second Life RC BlueSteel 12.11.16.267103
Error fetching server release notes URL.

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 Processor (3013.7 MHz)
Memory: 8176 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: AMD Radeon HD 6450

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 8.17.0010.1140
OpenGL Version: 4.2.11762 Compatibility Profile Context

RestrainedLove API: (disabled)
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.21.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8q zlib/1.2.5 c-ares/1.7.1
J2C Decoder Version: KDU
Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.750000
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: firestorm (grey)
Font Used: Deja Vu (96)
Draw distance: 128
Bandwidth: 1000
LOD factor: 4
Built with MSVC version 1600
Packets Lost: 20/500,959 (0.0%)

 

[Perrie Juran]

Is this your home SIM?  I did notice it was Blue Steel.  I was having some continuous problems a couple months ago on my home SIM and got it changed from Blue Steel to Main Channel and my problems went away.  I'm not always fond of being a guinea pig.

 

The other thing though is if I am looking up the correct card, That Radeon 6450 is described as low end entry level.  As graphically demanding as SL has become, it is really not up to the task.  It will work, but it's not going to sing any Operas.

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Yep, the graphics card is a stinker, that's why I use Singularity for travels and when I need a bigger draw range.

Since there are currently more important things to attend, I have deferred replacing the card into December, maybe January.
However, local lag shows as stuttering, which disappears almost completely with Singularity,
Especially when all shaders are turned off. The server side lag and its effects stay the same.