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Belldandy Schmajuk

Ongoing issue: flood of freebies on all marketplace search results

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Let me be clear about my position on freebies. I think freebies, in general, are fricken awesome, for both the consumer and for SL as a whole. That said, they should be found, not presented on a silver platter.

When we are talking about price dumping, my feelings really don't change. People should be able to price however they want. That doesn't mean others can't complain tho, lol. The bottom line is that SL's market is no different than any other market. In general, if something is truely unique, it won't be a freebie. The price of something is directly attributed to how unique it is, and how many people want it. Yeah, lots of artists don't have a clue how to price an item, but the average of that, if that could be calculated, would likely be the correct price for whatever it is. What I'm basically saying is that freebies are generally something that so many different people in SL have the same skill to make, and or use a system/code/asset that every1 has access to. If you are the only person that can or did make something truely unique, the likelyhood of freebies being an issue goes down conciderably. If freebies are an issue, then I suggest finding an area in the market where you can truely stand out.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

 I have 1 that is my staple product. It always does good, and is high price, but a big package with many features and goodness. This product, by any measurable standard, should be #1 and never fricken move from that position on my store page. It's stats far surpass any other product. It jumps around wildly in my store page. The 2nd and 3rd best performing products aren't even in the top 12 right now. I have 1 newer product that is selling in bunches every few days, and that is currently #1, yet it is only 6 months old. If it doesn't sell for a few days or a week, it will drop completely out of the top 12.

All that moving around tells me this system is extremely screwed up. There is no amount of reasoning that can explain those products jumping around like that, other that a really messed up algorythm. 

That is exactly how it works.  And I would bet you a a thousand bucks that no one on the Commerce Team has any idea that this is how it works.

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I strongly recommend that LL figures out a system that excludes listings from inactive accounts. If it were up to me I would go as far as requiring a premium account in order to sell anything on the site.

 

This free for all system will destroy their company! I predicted it when they first opened SLM and now I guarantee it.. No need for land, no need for anything except cashing out makes everyone a profitable merchant except those who rent land and pay premium fees.... prices are falling, people are quitting, land is being abandoned .. all of this will cost them revenue.

Again.. Land ownership or high listing fees for non premium members and the the priveledge of selling on the marketplace should be related!

 

 

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VonGklugelstein Alter wrote:

I strongly recommend that LL figures out a system that excludes listings from inactive accounts. If it were up to me I would go as far as requiring a premium account in order to sell anything on the site.

 

This free for all system will destroy their company! I predicted it when they first opened SLM and now I guarantee it.. No need for land, no need for anything except cashing out makes everyone a profitable merchant except those who rent land and pay premium fees.... prices are falling, people are quitting, land is being abandoned .. all of this will cost them revenue.

Again.. Land ownership or high listing fees for non premium members and the the priveledge of selling on the marketplace should be related!

 

 

you're making an assumption that ll both cares and even acknowledges there's a causal relationship between the marketplace and the land issues inworld.

I don't think either of these assumptions could be considered correct.

even though I hate to say it, if you remember when they bought slx and there's was all that discussion, the hysterics over any suggestion that they try to limit access to the marketplace in any way brought howls from the mob, even listing fees for freebies was a cause for much angst. Whilst LL favours us giving away our stuff for nothing, they're going to favour those who sell cheap or give freely over people who try to get any kind of return to pay their inworld costs and perhaps even make some rl dollars.  They really do not appear to give a **bleep** that a lot of the big landlords have a substantially reduced commercial portfolio or that there's a scary amount of abandonded mainland.

But remember, Rod has threatened us with new ways to improve the way we monetise our creations so we'll just have to wait until the minions deliver.

 

 

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You really want to know why there are so many freebies on Marketplace? Because all of the major content creators have had to pack up their shops and leave as a result of Marketplace. It's a double-edged sword. Linden Labs invested a whole lot of time and money building Marketplace - now they evn announce that they're migrating to Amazon too. People like me, who used to own stores spread across three full islands have long gone. I started in 2006. I built a vast collection of furniture and homes. At one time, I was earning $50,000 lindens per day and withdrawing $1,500 to $2,000 USD per month. I spent every moment I could building, revising, redecorating, rebuilding, and expanding. Slowly though, the Marketplace became the king. Who's going to pay $5,000 L for a house they can get on Marketplace for $100L? I'm all done now. Today I popped in to convert my premium account to free basic membership. Some of my old furniture and homes are still on Marketplace. I'm giving it all away now. Just like all the other "freebie makers" out there.

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Jasmine Digital wrote:

You really want to know why there are so many freebies on Marketplace? Because all of the major content creators have had to pack up their shops and leave as a result of Marketplace. 

I don't know if I qualify as a major content creator but I have a 4 sim home and furnishings store that is thriving, even as prices are being driven down -- in part by people like you.  Competition is brutal, but if you are not up to it, then I guess your only alternative is to pack up.

 

I will say this, however -- I will never dump my content for a handful of Lindens just in order to punish other merchants.

 

 

 

 

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Jasmine Digital wrote:

You really want to know why there are so many freebies on Marketplace? Because all of the major content creators have had to pack up their shops and leave as a result of Marketplace. It's a double-edged sword. Linden Labs invested a whole lot of time and money building Marketplace - now they evn announce that they're migrating to Amazon too. People like me, who used to own stores spread across three full islands have long gone. I started in 2006. I built a vast collection of furniture and homes. At one time, I was earning $50,000 lindens per day and withdrawing $1,500 to $2,000 USD per month. I spent every moment I could building, revising, redecorating, rebuilding, and expanding. Slowly though, the Marketplace became the king. Who's going to pay $5,000 L for a house they can get on Marketplace for $100L? I'm all done now. Today I popped in to convert my premium account to free basic membership. Some of my old furniture and homes are still on Marketplace. I'm giving it all away now. Just like all the other "freebie makers" out there.

What the hell does that have to do with freebies? what kind of twisted idiotic logic is that?!?!

"People are shopping on the MP now so i will not move my store there and sell there as well." That is what your logic sounds like..  perhaps people found ways to make beautiful homes with far less than 1000 prims. I wouldn't pay 00L for a 1000 prim house. If you don't evolve as a builder with the new technology... you will fail.

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

Why are you giving it away now? What drives you to do so?

She has been giving them free for at least a year and a half.

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

But I am curious what causes that someone makes this choice. What thoughts or feelings are behind it?

I've wondered that for a long time, it's certainly not to make friends with their previous customers if they've dumped the stuff for free and it's certainly not in solidarity with other sellers because they should be aware how hard it is to turn a profit in here.

The only good thing about some of the older items being given away is that people may grab them but will soon move up to something more modern and less prim intensive..  or that at least should be the theory.  If you look at all those freebies that were floating around back in 2006, there would be very few of them that you'd even rez for more than a minute now.

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Couldbe Yue wrote:


Madeliefste Oh wrote:

But I am curious what causes that someone makes this choice. What thoughts or feelings are behind it?

I've wondered that for a long time, it's certainly not to make friends with their previous customers if they've dumped the stuff for free and it's certainly not in solidarity with other sellers because they should be aware how hard it is to turn a profit in here.

The only good thing about some of the older items being given away is that people may grab them but will soon move up to something more modern and less prim intensive..  or that at least should be the theory.  If you look at all those freebies that were floating around back in 2006, there would be very few of them that you'd even rez for more than a minute now.

Exactly! This is why I don't have a problem with freebies or even people going cheap. There is a magic number for every product, and to go lower than that, just hurts a little more. When something is so cheap, that almost every1 owns it, the customer will likely pay a little more and get something few people have, or customize theirs. With some products, that are really rare, making the best 1 and every1 owning it is a good thing, but the rarity drives up the price. Something being free says something tho, and has no real value simple because they can get another for free. Irreguardless of what it is, most of the free stuff is not really usable or can be easily made by any1 with some basic skills. There are some gems, but there value is mostly in the resellable market. So, I just don't see how freebies or even cheap destroys a market.

Now, with mesh, and the deformer coming. The clothing market is revitalized. I also see some new encouraging things coming and new tools adding to what can be made and what is possible. I've seen a recent increase in sales, and I pretty much expect things to grow in SL this year. Creators can now jump from platform to platform and use their creations in all the different programs. SL creators can now actually be in the complete 3D market, that is growing. I see people that worry about copyrights as the only factor that can slow this merging of all the 3D markets. We may need LL to run a tighter ship with mesh content, which does have some extra security. Creators could sell a planket license for all platforms. Who knows what is the best way. I'm excited for the future.

I just have a problem with the results we see in both the MP and the inworld search. I don't feel it promotes the best in SL. LL should want to promote the products with the best value to fun ratio, which should be easily calculated with price, total sales and total views numbers. If for no other reason than to get a good, fun product into a newbies hands as quickly as possible. Newbies are reluctant to spend money and spending money on something you just delete doesn't give you confidence to spend more. The "best" products are literally just a price to sales ratio. Other than traffic, the inworld search has no way of customers to influence the ranking. LL could connect your MP store to your inworld store, and use the MP stats as a factor to inword search ranking. Just a thought.

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What is a planket license, Medhue?

When it comes to copyrights I'm all against that Linden Lab is selling any of my content or my licenses outsite the services. When licenses for other platforms then SL are needed I can provide them very well by meself.

 

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Jasmine Digital wrote:

You really want to know why there are so many freebies on Marketplace? Because all of the major content creators have had to pack up their shops and leave as a result of Marketplace. It's a double-edged sword. Linden Labs invested a whole lot of time and money building Marketplace - now they evn announce that they're migrating to Amazon too. People like me, who used to own stores spread across three full islands have long gone. I started in 2006. I built a vast collection of furniture and homes. At one time, I was earning $50,000 lindens per day and withdrawing $1,500 to $2,000 USD per month. I spent every moment I could building, revising, redecorating, rebuilding, and expanding. Slowly though, the Marketplace became the king. Who's going to pay $5,000 L for a house they can get on Marketplace for $100L? I'm all done now. Today I popped in to convert my premium account to free basic membership. Some of my old furniture and homes are still on Marketplace. I'm giving it all away now. Just like all the other "freebie makers" out there.

"All the major content creators have left" - Really?, I don't see that at all.

Your logic doesn't stand to reason either.  "Who will pay L$5000 for a house when they can get one for L$100 on Marketplace?".  How does that differ from one merchant asking L$5000 inworld vs another asking L$100 INWORLD?

What about xstreet and onrez?  They were online marketplaces so again your logic doesn't hold up.

What you can't expect to do is the same thing and achieve the same results because others around you will be competing to build better, texture better, market better than you and they do this daily.

Perhaps the answer comes best from your customers, here's a review of an item on sale for L$1... ONE LINDEN not hundreds or thousands but L$1

"Sorry, not impressed by this one. Too many prims for something that looks just like a box. Cannot do anything with it, not even sit on it :/"

Technology has moved on, methods have changed and people expect better than what was around in 2006.  I'm not perfect, i'm acutely aware of the need to innovate and bring fresh things, not just more of the same as what I did in 2008 and have increased my skills and continue to do so.  You cannot stand still while others rush past and expect to achieve the same results.

You wrote a somewhat bitter tirade which is completely misplaced, there are many ways to interpret it however, the "marketplace" (as distinct from LL's Marketplace) has always existed and people have always been able to choose the products that they feel best fit their needs, budget and quality requirements.

Times have changed, better quality is readily available, competition is fierce and that's life.

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

But I am curious what causes that someone makes this choice. What thoughts or feelings are behind it?

There is a simple answer for this, although it is only logical to the person executing it.  A person has the inability to retaliate against someone or some entity that they have percieved has wronged them.   So they do what they think is the next best thing, they lash out at whomever they are able to.   And it doesn't matter whether they actually were mistreated, the only necessary ingredient is that they feel they have been.

This goes hand in hand with 'misery loves company' & now others should be aware of how it feels.  I can't help but refer back to Pam's comment in another thread regarding the meaning of 'that's unfair'.  The same mindset in play.

Anyway, IIMO this is the major reason.

 

 

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Jasmine Digital wrote:

You really want to know why there are so many freebies on Marketplace? Because all of the major content creators have had to pack up their shops and leave as a result of Marketplace. It's a double-edged sword. Linden Labs invested a whole lot of time and money building Marketplace - now they evn announce that they're migrating to Amazon too. People like me, who used to own stores spread across three full islands have long gone. I started in 2006. I built a vast collection of furniture and homes. At one time, I was earning $50,000 lindens per day and withdrawing $1,500 to $2,000 USD per month. I spent every moment I could building, revising, redecorating, rebuilding, and expanding. Slowly though, the Marketplace became the king. Who's going to pay $5,000 L for a house they can get on Marketplace for $100L? I'm all done now. Today I popped in to convert my premium account to free basic membership. Some of my old furniture and homes are still on Marketplace. I'm giving it all away now. Just like all the other "freebie makers" out there.

There was a SL car maker that was selling a car based on the Isetta bubblecar. It was for sale for L$800. It was cute but the construction was a bit dated and I didnt' have a compelling reason to buy it.

Some time ago another builder released an Isetta on the marketplace for free as a promo for their full-perm cars. I got it - it was nice enough, but the conversion of the mesh had issues and I wasn't inspired to pay even L$100 to get an upgraded version that was available in different colors.

The first builder I mentioned took their Isetta out of their store.

Some builders in this position would then be on this forum telling about how "freebies were destroying thier business." This builder, though decided to do something different. A few weeks later the first builder released a new version of their Isetta that was ONE OF THE MOST AWESOME THINGS I'D EVER SEEN and priced it at L$500. I found myself trying to come up with reasons why I needed an Isetta (with me, this would mean suddenly discovering that my avatar had relatives in Germany in the 1950's - that's how I roll, usually.) I know someone who got one of the new Isettas and liked it so much that he routinely walks around carrying a little suitcase that came with it.

Recently the new Isetta's been re-priced at L$1000 and I'm still working out excuses to get it, despite not being interested in the previous L$800 one or a competitor's L$100 one.

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

What is a planket license, Medhue?

When it comes to copyrights I'm all against that Linden Lab is selling any of my content or my licenses outsite the services. When licenses for other platforms then SL are needed I can provide them very well by meself.

 

Sorry, I meant blanket license. Meaning that you sell your items outside of SL but the customer can get a license to sell them in SL. I didn't mean to imply that LL has anything at all to do with selling our items.

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Sassy Romano wrote:

What about xstreet and onrez?  They were online marketplaces so again your logic doesn't hold up.


They didn't have the reach of the SL Marketplace, they also didn't have merged balances or links from the main website. Had LL not purchased Onrez and XStreet and simply built their own marketplace, they would have crushed both ventures after a period of futile resistance.

The Marketplace has been a game changer, but you're right, people have to change with the times.

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Ciaran Laval wrote:


Sassy Romano wrote:

What about xstreet and onrez?  They were online marketplaces so again your logic doesn't hold up.


They didn't have the reach of the SL Marketplace, they also didn't have merged balances or links from the main website. Had LL not purchased Onrez and XStreet and simply built their own marketplace, they would have crushed both ventures after a period of futile resistance.

The Marketplace has been a game changer, but you're right, people have to change with the times.

But by that logic, Marketplace would have INCREASED the exposure of the store in question, not destroyed it.  However, if higher quality products at a better price are easier for the customer to find then the blame does not lie with the sales platform.

This wasn't about Marketplace vs Onrez or Xstreet though but about MP didn't kill someones shop for the reasons it was claimed that it did.

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The marketplace is low cost entry, LL have built it up and even include a shop link in the viewer, of course the marketplace has hit inworld stores and by virtue, ventures that rented out shop space, that's a natural process of the marketplace but it's here and it's here to stay, so people need to adjust, or as many have done, tier down.

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