Ongoing issue: flood of freebies on all marketplace search results

[Deja Letov]

In an effort to try and sort out what's going on with search, I've also been looking into the strange results too. I still cant say with any certainty myself as to what is happening but I don't think it's quite as simple as just listing freebies first, because I am finding a lot of results that appear at the top of the list have nothing to do with the word that was searched for...but some other items in the merchants listings do. Also you get freebies and well priced items being returned in results so it can't be only a freebie or dollar amount criteria. I did notice that if you select a category the listings seem a bit closer to what it should be as far as relevancy. to me it doesn't appear that they just gave a blanket boost to freebies and low priced items but instead that they have changed the search returns to be even less restrictive than before when it comes to relevancy. I would even go so far as to say that maybe they are including other products by the merchant in their search results. Whatever they have changed, it definitely is not helping relevancy. In fact when doing some shopping of my own this weekend I found it extremely hard to find what I was looking for And it wasnt due to freebies, it was due to products not even remotely related to what i was looking for showing up in my results. If it stays this way we may find the "reason" many of us use the marketplace (easier to find what we are looking for) has just been taken away. I'm someone who uses the marketplace to search but then I go in world to actually buy it...as of right now there doesn't seem to be an advantage to doing that anymore. 

I haven't noticed a decrease in sales on the marketplace as of yet, but I'm sure it may just be a matter of time. It's cases like these however that make me very glad I put so much of my efforts into my inworld store and use the marketplace as a secondary form of advertising and sales. The marketplace is just too unstable to rely on it for stability in a business.

[Sassy Romano]

I wouldn't bother, it's the subject of an "investigation" but I just wanted to explain why it was at number 1 spot.

But seriously, "worth" is in the eye of the purchaser and Marketplace is an open market, we are at liberty to offer products for as low or as high a price as we choose.  If nobody buys then either there's a better product for the same value and the customer buys the other or they don't buy at all.  Some people aspire to exclusivity and there's no reason that someone with a suitable amount of money and nothing better to do might not actually buy something for L$1,000,000 just because they can, at which point it is worth it to that purchaser.

We shouldn't rush to assume that something "isn't worth" just because there are others at a suitalby low price.  By the same token I could argue that just about any item on marketplace "isn't worth" the asking price because there's likely a verion of it on sale at L$0 even if the one i'm looking at is only L$100. 

What was also evident is that there are a number of people who don't understand the flagging system, both Marketplace viewers and LL staff.

My RLV poseball got flagged for "spam" and "inflated listing price".  Both of these are inappropriate.  Referring to the listing guidelines at https://marketplace.secondlife.com/listing_guidelines :-

 

Item or Keyword Spam.

• Item spam is listing an item more than once, for any reason, and will not be tolerated. The SL Marketplace provides ways to increase visibility for nominal fees. Consider an Item Enhancement or a Banner Ad. Clear variations of an item, for example, an item offered in multiple sizes (such as small, medium, and large shoes), or an item offered in multiple colors (such as a blue and black sport coat), are, however, allowed and are not considered item spam.
• Keyword spam is the use of words (such as brand names, item names, or other terms) that have nothing to do with the item listed so that the listing will appear in search results. Keyword spam is not allowed because it clutters the SL Marketplace and makes buying and selling more difficult.

It's listed ONCE and the keywords are "rlv, poseball"

Anti-Competitive or Abusive Behavior. Examples include, but are not limited to:

• inflating prices on the SL Marketplace, in comparison to in-world or other e-commerce sites,

It's NOT advertised on any other e-commerce site and the inworld price is exactly the same.

It is therefore not justifiable that LL delist the item as the flagging reasons are unjust and while someone might not like the price as advertised, they're not required to purchase and to flag just because someone "feels" the price is too high is merely sour grapes!

Deal with the high prices, just as we have to deal with the L$0 prices, they're not going away and merchants have themselves to blame in many cases by rushing to the bottom of the price barrel.

[Rardoctred Wirefly]

What I am complaining about ? First of all I am not complaining about my so called "griefer" items that are 20 L Im complaining mainly about my invisibility cloak which was the number one selling item I have sold hundereds of them at 400 L. Since it has gone down the list I have sold alot less so I don't believe your formula is correct sir. At any rate it doesn't matter because LL states that the only reason they even alow freebies to exist is to get people interested in looking at their store. Otherwise they wouldn't allow it at all since they don't make any MONEY off of freebies. LL is a corporation and their sole purpose is to make money so doing this simply makes no sense to me. Your logic can be seen to be false by simply noticing how much the freebies are going up the list SINCE they changed things. I have watched items that were previously hard to find because they were freebies all of a sudden selling more and the proof is watching each one come up the list. And the more they come up the list the more they are seen and the more they sell. Common sense pal. I know this from experience. Another troll who thinks he knows everything...

[Rardoctred Wirefly]

Oh and its also the relevance list that has been affected as well - Same exact thing happening there. My item was also at the top of the relevancy list. Now it is not even on the page. since you mentioned that...

[jazon Uxlay]

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VonGklugelstein Alter wrote:

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Sassy Romano wrote:

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jazon Uxlay wrote:

obviously there is a problem with marketplace considering the "best selling product" is a pose ball selling for $1,000,000L worth about $100L at best, that no one in there right mind would buy for that price and somehow is outselling meeroo food and other way more popular items.

i don't think the problem has anything to do with freebies or pricing just second lifes filters are borked at the moment.

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As the creator of that fine product, I can tell you that it has that place in search because it sold 27 times that day.

"worth" is very subjective, just because one person wouldn't pay it doesn't mean that others wouldn't.

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You made $ 104,000 dollars in one day?  I am calling Associated press and CNN and Fox news.. get ready for a visit... lol

 

 

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i know right? maybe i should make a RLV pose ball that only works for the owner of the poseball? and sell them for a million lindens so i can sell 27 of them in one day lol.

 

but not to discredit your product, i support all creators

but really a pose ball that only works for the owner kind of defeats the whole purpose of RLV and secondly would be useless as the owner of the poseball could just as easy right click themselves and select "remove all clothing" and save themselves a million linden lol.

i highly doubt you sold 27 of them in one day unless you were giving them away free that day. but back to the point regardless of how many you sold that day i doubt you would out sell meeroo food considering the millions of them on the grid there for "most sold" on marketplace is likely borked.

 

[Sassy Romano]

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jazon Uxlay wrote:

but really a pose ball that only works for the owner kind of defeats the whole purpose of RLV and secondly would be useless as the owner of the poseball could just as easy right click themselves and select "remove all clothing" and save themselves a million linden lol.

i highly doubt you sold 27 of them in one day unless you were giving them away free that day. but back to the point regardless of how many you sold that day i doubt you would out sell meeroo food considering the millions of them on the grid there for "most sold" on marketplace is likely borked.

 

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Yes someone could right click and remove all but it's not the same

Yes I did sell 27, they weren't given away free for the day either.    As I said, the purchase activity was dubious and is the subject of an investigation of which i'm an innocent party.  The outcome was amusing however and as far as MP is concerned, the transactions happened thus that's how it stands where it does in the listings and since MP "knows", clearly it DID outsell Meeroo food in terms of L$ turnover.

I had no part other than putting that item up as a listing.

[jazon Uxlay]

well hopefully for you youll get to keep some of those sales you will have a great christams:)

as far as i know tho marketplace sorts the results from number of items sold not money earned from the sales atleast from my understanding:)

[Sassy Romano]

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jazon Uxlay wrote:

well hopefully for you youll get to keep some of those sales you will have a great christams:)

as far as i know tho marketplace sorts the results from number of items sold not money earned from the sales atleast from my understanding:)

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Somehow I don't think i'll be seeing any of it, not even a review!  *huffs*

I guess the results of the sort order are now a little more transparent.

[Couldbe Yue]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

Deal with the high prices, just as we have to deal with the L$0 prices, they're not going away and merchants have themselves to blame in many cases by rushing to the bottom of the price barrel.

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one user agrees

[nuria Augapfel]

Probably i should not get involved in this BUT......i'm shocked about the poseball for 1,000,000 $L (4,255 USD according to MP)... Sassy, don't get me wrong, you can charge whatever you want for your work, that is indisputable...but.... 4,255 USD for a (no transfer) poseball that strips the avatar (only the owner)...is not it a bit abusive?....(my english isn't good, maybe i misunderstood? :matte-motes-bashful:)

I do not pretend to sound rude nor disrespectful, do not bite me :matte-motes-wink:

 

 

[Pamela Galli]

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nuria Augapfel wrote:

Probably i should not get involved in this BUT......i'm shocked about the poseball for 1,000,000 $L (4,255 USD according to MP)... Sassy, don't get me wrong,

 

you can charge whatever you want for your work, that is indisputable...but.... 4,255 USD for a (no transfer) poseball that strips the avatar (only the owner)...is not it a bit abusive?....(my english isn't good, maybe i misunderstood? :matte-motes-bashful:)

I do not pretend to sound rude nor disrespectful, do not bite me :matte-motes-wink:

 

 

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I never think it abusive for a merchant to set whatever price he wants on something he sells, as long as the customer is free to choose to buy or not.

 

One of the justification people have for copybotting our stuff is that we charge too much money for them (ie they should be free).

[Sassy Romano]

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nuria Augapfel wrote:

Probably i should not get involved in this BUT......i'm shocked about the poseball for 1,000,000 $L (4,255 USD according to MP)... Sassy, don't get me wrong,

 

you can charge whatever you want for your work, that is indisputable...but.... 4,255 USD for a (no transfer) poseball that strips the avatar (only the owner)...is not it a bit abusive?....(my english isn't good, maybe i misunderstood? :matte-motes-bashful:)

I do not pretend to sound rude nor disrespectful, do not bite me :matte-motes-wink:

 

 

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I don't bite  

Nobody is forced to buy, nor does it occupy any more resource on the Marketplace than a listing for L$1 or L$0.  It has total parity with every other product listing, only the asking price is somewhat higher

It's for this reason that flagging for "inflated listing price" is utterly inappropriate, opinion is one thing, breaking TOS which it doesn't is another.

Perhaps MP should offer a category for "deflated listing price" where people can flag items that are being ridiculously undersold.  Except that people would be far too busy flagging items.

 

[nuria Augapfel]

Hi pamela, sure we agree on this :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2:...but we know that there are certain price margins on the SL market ....and in my opinion (just my opinion^^)  1,000,000 $l for such product is very far from such margins. As i said, merchants can charge whatever they want for their products, that's out of discussion.  I could set one of my products to 500K but that would be (in my view) abusive, looking at the price margins of similar products (competition) and certainly this would not favor my business....(i'm leaving the ethical part aside). 

But every business is different, so if Sassy actually is selling the poseballs for 1,000,000 $L, good for her :matte-motes-big-grin:

[Pamela Galli]

I just don't see how anyone is being abused, Nuria, if they have the choice whether to buy or not.

[Sassy Romano]

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nuria Augapfel wrote:

Hi pamela, sure we agree on this :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2:...but we know that there are certain price margins on the SL market ....and in my opinion (just my opinion^^)  1,000,000 $l for such product is very far from such margins. As i said, merchants can charge whatever they want for their products, that's out of discussion.  I could set one of my products to 500K but that would be (in my view) abusive, looking at the price margins of similar products (competition) and certainly this would not favor my business....(i'm leaving the ethical part aside). 

But every business is different, so if Sassy

actually

is selling the poseballs for 1,000,000 $L, good for her :matte-motes-big-grin:

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Yes it's waaaaaaaaaay higher than any other similar item but then it's exclusive lol.  Ethics?   My business ethics are rock solid.  If a product doesn't do EXACTLY as advertised and money is forced, coerced from someone or they are in any other way mis-sold or mislead then it would be wrong.

Trust me, any campaign about abuse is best directed towards competitors UNDERSELLING or trending products towards freebie price than a single product occupying the top slot through a comical chain of events.

Once everyone has been dragged down to L$1, what's the next pricing strategy going to be when your competition is giving away items just to claim traffic?

[Perrie Juran]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I just don't see how anyone is being abused, Nuria, if they have the choice whether to buy or not.

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As George Carlin said, "If you nail together two things that no one has ever nailed together before, some schmuck will buy it."

My hat goes off to you.

I do hope you get your $L's from your sale.

 

[Pamela Galli]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I just don't see how anyone is being abused, Nuria, if they have the choice whether to buy or not.

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As George Carlin said, "If you nail together two things that no one has ever nailed together before, some schmuck will buy it."

My hat goes off to you.

I do hope you get your $L's from your sale.

 

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(Perrie meant to address this to Sassy.)

[Perrie Juran]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I just don't see how anyone is being abused, Nuria, if they have the choice whether to buy or not.

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As George Carlin said, "If you nail together two things that no one has ever nailed together before, some schmuck will buy it."

My hat goes off to you.

I do hope you get your $L's from your sale.

 

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(Perrie meant to address this to Sassy.)

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Oooops.  Yes.  TY.

 

[nuria Augapfel]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I just don't see how anyone is being abused, Nuria, if they have the choice whether to buy or not.

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I guess that there are a language barrier (my fault)....let me change the term if you prefer for "extremely overpriced"( taking a look to the price margins on the SL market). I think that anyone with a bit of experience in the market (and i'm talking as a customer) would agree that a no transfer poseball for 1,000,000 $L (again: 4,255 USD) is extremely overpriced...and sorry but for me almost it looks like a joke^^.  Said that, Pamela neither you nor me have SO unreasonably high prices for our products and i'm pretty sure that we have similar reasons to not overpricing  in such way. 

But...can Sassy set the price that she wants for her products? yessss! 

Sassy trust me, my business also "struggle" with those competitors underselling or trending products towards freebie price. It's a pain on the (*).  Even those who sells products from full perm kits (let's be clear, most from the freebie market comes from these kits)  are breaking the licenses from the provider and selling them for lower price than the allowed on the license....i'm in your ship on this.

 

[Sassy Romano]

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nuria Augapfel wrote:

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I just don't see how anyone is being abused, Nuria, if they have the choice whether to buy or not.

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I think that anyone with a bit of experience in the market (and i'm talking as a customer) would agree that a no transfer poseball for 1,000,000 $L (again: 4,255 USD) is

extremely

overpriced...and sorry but for me almost it looks like a joke^^. 

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"overpriced" is subjective though, the novelty of the price here is somewhat irrelevant, what's overpriced for a shirt or a dress?  I can buy a duvet for $10 at the local Walmart or I can buy one lovingly filled with Aboriginal Geese down and pay tens of thousands of $ (real money here).

Both keep me warm at night.  What's the difference?  Is one overpriced or is it at a price point that introduces exclusivity.

If someone else were to rez a prim and make it a sphere and colour it purple, it would be "like" mine but it wouldn't *be* mine thus it's not the same.  Now, just like my duvet example, there are similar items that will sell far more often but then that's not for someone in the market for a ridiculously exclusive item.

SL mirrors RL in this respect.  Were I to be selling "just a poseball that uses RLV to strip the owning avatar" and want to sell that all day long i'd make it a freebie, because I only want to sell one in a lifetime on the whim that someone with nothing better to spend money on might catch the novelty then it's no longer "just a poseball" but a L$1 million pose ball.

Ergo, it's not overpriced, while it may be functionally similar to other ones that are far cheaper, they're not pitching in the same price point for the same customer base. 

Yes there is an element of novelty and bull**bleep** at work here but the bottom line is that pricing is always only relative and value lies in the eye of the purchaser, anything else is merely opinion and everyone is entitled to theirs.

[VonGklugelstein Alter]

Funny how this thread became about Sassy's  Million dollar exploit rather than the problem on hand.

 

On a side note, there is no way that 27 different people will lay down 4 k for any item on SLM in a 24 hr period regardless what the circumstances are.  I have witnessed bidding wars for mainland regions that barely reached the $ 4000 range and those were rare. Another fact to consider.. most people in the Lifestyle in which a RLV viewer is used are pisspoor to the point where they cannot afford a dentist and most shop at Walmart. This entire subject is a joke. The real test is:

Would I pay 4K to see a naked cartoon character when 4 K can get me plane fare and a real fun date with a famous porn star?

4K could probably get me a date with some of my competitors on here...

 

 

 

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

Some of the old freebies are of good quality. And some of the really cheap items are a nuisance to plough through, repeated copies of the same item at different prices.

The Marketplace needs better searching and filtering ans sorting tools. What if I want cheap hair and do not want a Demo?

It would be nice if Marketplace listings could deliver the right pictures. I don't see that mistake at any other sales site on the net. But if they cannot rely on their own data, search is always going to be broken.

[Sassy Romano]

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VonGklugelstein Alter wrote:

Funny how this thread became about Sassy's  Million dollar exploit rather than the problem on hand.

 

On a side note, there is no way that 27 different people will lay down 4 k for any item on SLM in a 24 hr period regardless what the circumstances are. 

  

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You're correct that 27 different people didn't purchase within a 24 hour window, one person did.

You're right about the thread drift too but I came to the thread to have right of reply and fill in some comprehension gaps that were missing.  In subsequent comments, I've also tried to explain "value" and that applies as equally to freebies vs paid for items of any sort on MP as that's where the thread needs to be returned to.

Merchants have engineered the freebie glut and that's where the blame resides.

[Sassy Romano]

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WolfBaginski Bearsfoot wrote:

Some of the old freebies are of good quality. And some of the really cheap items are a nuisance to plough through, repeated copies of the same item at different prices.

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That was one of the reasons that I hoped that the migration to Direct Delivery would not be automatic.  Old and dormant items or those of quality that were not current might have been too much trouble to migrate, thus removing a lot of old and stagnant content.  Only time will tell.

Now there's a different problem though which is mesh templates.  There are some mesh templates being offered that are of very good looking quality and at ridiculously low prices.

Only the other day, I saw the same shirt over and over again from prices varying from L$10 through L$220 for a no mod result.  Or, do as I did and pay L$250 for the item full perm. It doesn't take much to figure out which I bought.  I have no desire to resell these, just use them for myself thus having the item full perm, even if I don't do anything but use the default texture at least gives me the option of doing other things with it.

Selling the templates at such a low price though means that it's highly accessible to anyone and gives resellers absolutely no room for maneuver other than downward in price and then there's always the last pitch grab for marketshare... offer a freebie!  There is no UP from freebie.

End result, high quality products being sold for rock bottom rates or free.

Merchant created problem.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Rardoctred Wirefly wrote:

What I am complaining about ? First of all I am not complaining about my so called "griefer" items that are 20 L Im complaining mainly about my invisibility cloak which was the number one selling item I have sold hundereds of them at 400 L. Since it has gone down the list I have sold alot less so I don't believe your formula is correct sir. At any rate it doesn't matter because LL states that the only reason they even alow freebies to exist is to get people interested in looking at their store. Otherwise they wouldn't allow it at all since they don't make any MONEY off of freebies. LL is a corporation and their sole purpose is to make money so doing this simply makes no sense to me. Your logic can be seen to be false by simply noticing how much the freebies are going up the list SINCE they changed things. I have watched items that were previously hard to find because they were freebies all of a sudden selling more and the proof is watching each one come up the list. And the more they come up the list the more they are seen and the more they sell. Common sense pal. I know this from experience. Another troll who thinks he knows everything...

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You really need to re-read what i wrote. i said "worried" not complaining.