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I have read a bit that there is no way to dectect the gender of an avatar by a ;touch' on an object, Is this still true?

I have plans to open a private female avatar only area and this would be useful. But it seems I may have to go to just kicking out or dening acess to any avatar that is not on an 'approved' list. (that is easy enough) I was just hoping for a way I didn't have to ask people to wait till I check them out before adding them.

At least,,you can check a person age (as entered in thier account) by script. Why not gender?

Cheers

 

 

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Hello Athena

You're right: There is no way to detect the gender of an avatar.

This is an issue, that gets discussed here (and elsewhere) no ang again, usually ending up in a heated and highly emotional fight. Search this forum and the archive of this forum, and you will find pages full of arguments for and against gender detection.

 

ETA:

You cannot  check the age of a person - you can check the age of an ava - you should make a clear distinction between ava and person - which is very important for gender as well.

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Hi, the basic trouble is that the gender is not really part of the account, it is only an attribute of the shape the avatar is currently wearing. Shapes marked as "female" are sometimes used to create a male character, though the opposite is rare. If the avatar isn't actually human, all bets are off. Consider also the increasingly common mesh avatars, where the shape is mostly ignored apart from bone lengths.

Avatar shape information is available as a matter of course so that avatars can be rendered, and a bot could certainly be programmed to check this field in the shape and act on it. It won't be totally accurate, so human bouncers are probably still your best option.

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AthenaStarfire wrote:

At least,,you can check a person age (as entered in thier account) by script. Why not gender?


Can you? You can get the date I created my account by using llRequestAgentData, but I don't think there's any way by script even to tell if my preferences are set to allow me to enter M or A rated land (other than detecting me there), let alone what DoB LL have on file for me.

 

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Yes, I rechecked the llRequestAgentData and I was mistaken that it was the MMDDYY that they entered into thier account. Just another problem. Guess there is now also no way to tell if 10 year old Johnny can be detected trying to get into an Adult Private Area,

Guess I have to go with "Deny Teleport if not on this list" approach and have the area sealed (like 500m above the ground with 10m thick walls so you can't sideslip in. Maybe an active looping scrip sensor checking each ukey in the place is on the access list. LL sure doesn't make it easy,

Thanks for the Input

Cheers

 

 

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Insuring that 10 year old Johnny can be detected trying to get into an Adult Private Area is not your problem, it is the Lab's problem. That is why they created Adult rating in the first place. Your problem is that you would not be able to store more than 500 names in a script and even this only if you are an adept in efficient memory usage in LSL applications. Many thousands of names may be stored in a series of scripts with parallel access but you must be a very advanced RL programmer to accomplish that. And still should a script crash (and it does happen though not very frequently, for instance on some server upgrades) all the names are lost.

I would advise you to simply create a group and restrict parcel access to the group members. The group would be by invitation only and you'd have to add new members manually perhaps after an interview of some kind but you wouldn't need either walls or scripts.

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Group is not an option, I don't want to cut out a parecel just for a group. I have other uses for my area.

I have no problem with storing names since they are not in the script, they are in my MySQL Database on my web server. Very easy to check and pretty quick with llHttp_Request. Access to an outside database was one of the Good things LL finally did,

 

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There may be a bigger problem here, if the intent is to create an Adult content area on a parcel with a Moderate maturity rating. That may not be the case here, and this is out of scope for scripting anyway, but briefly: It's only permissible to have Adult content on public (shown in Search) Mature land if the adult content is "behind closed doors." As the adult content policy has evolved, some text about mixed public and private use of a parcel now appears to require that the land is set to hide avatars from view outside the parcel, and that access to the parcel is limited to a non-public group or a list of individuals. The example in that policy is a private skybox above a public store, so it's unclear how that store can be public if access to the parcel is restricted. (It's also problematic to rely on the parcel settings of hidden content and restricted access if the adult content is in a skybox, presumably above the height where whitelist access restrictions apply.)

I'm not sure this is relevant to the situation in this thread, and even if it is, it would be more germane to the Adult subforum.

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MySQL should work just fine if your in-world detector supplies queries correctly. A thing to keep in mind here is that if you want to restrict access not to a whole parcel but only to a part of a parcel, llGetAgentList( ) is not applicable so you'd have to detect on proximity. However llSensor( ) would return only the closest 16 agents so if the area is expected to be high traffic you'd have to make a moving sensor or get one here .

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  • 5 years later...

Returning to the original question about gender detection, as long as you are content to adopt a pragmatic "if it looks female, it is female" approach, the following (bare-bones outline) seems to work pretty well on humanoid avatars.

It's not perfect and I have no idea to what extent it's helpful with non-humanoid types but, basically, I gather the variable 'IsGender' keys on LL's body morphing male/female slider sets: a value of 0.0 being definitively female, a value of 1.0 being definitively male, and anything in between … use your imagination!

list BodyShape = llGetObjectDetails(WhoIsID, [OBJECT_BODY_SHAPE_TYPE]);
float IsGender = llList2Float(BodyForm, 0);

 

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2 hours ago, TomStraye said:

Returning to the original question about gender detection

You will probably have noticed that the original question was asked in 2012, about 5 years before LL introduced the OBJECT_BODY_SHAPE_TYPE variable for llGetObjectDetails.  That variable has lived up to all of the prerelease predictions about ambiguity, but it's one more tool than we had when the OP asked six years ago.

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Interesting or not, it's really inadvisable.

The number of males using female system bodies, alpha'd and meshed over, is surprisingly high. To the eye they look 100% male, but the female body has historically been smaller and more slender, so it's used a lot in male anime avatars.

V-Tech's boi chest also adds another huge chunk of Male avatars who are in a female shape.

Some Furries and Ferals and a fair slab of non-human avatars complete the mix.

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5 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

It might be more useful to have a  user-set flag for AVATAR_GENDER, probably defaulting to whatever the body shape type was, but capable of being set by the user and also with (at least) an option for "not specified" or something similar.

Technically you can create a shape with a non-binary (literally) gender..

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1 minute ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Technically you can create a shape with a non-binary (literally) gender..

Took the words right out of my mouth. In fact, you could equally ask: "what is gender anyway and does it really matter in a virtual world that does not rely on sexual reproduction to maintain its population?". Or, to put it another way, does not the answer to questions about avatar gender depend on why you are asking? What is it that you actually want to know?

Answer that last question and, I suggest, the 'gender detection problem' becomes far more tractable — no longer about gender as such; just a matter of ticking boxes in a purpose-specific truth table. 

Which is why, for the record, when friends asked me to code them a 'female only' doorway, body-shape was only one of the parameters on their wish-list. For the rest — mostly relating to what the avatar has between its legs — I gather they are now resigned to relying on old-fashioned, personal, physical inspection.

It's a hard life!

 

 

 

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I'm not sure it's advisable though.... some furniture detects gender to position you in the right place... might not work for you as intended then. Btw, did anyone check how it affects shape ? I bet shape is still handled binary, defaulting to one of both sexes until the other total is reached - I bet there are no intermediary shapes.  I guess the whole reason for this is that the shape is stored as an integer or float array internaly.

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2 hours ago, Fionalein said:

I'm not sure it's advisable though.... some furniture detects gender to position you in the right place... might not work for you as intended then. Btw, did anyone check how it affects shape ? I bet shape is still handled binary, defaulting to one of both sexes until the other total is reached - I bet there are no intermediary shapes.  I guess the whole reason for this is that the shape is stored as an integer or float array internaly.

According to the wiki page, it has a gradual effect on bone lengths (I'm guessing it's a modifier). http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/OBJECT_BODY_SHAPE_TYPE

Also, since the value returned from BODY_SHAPE_TYPE is an integer (not the float) any value below 1.0 should equal to 0 or female.

Besides, most furniture has a swap button, so being assigned the wrong seat isn't really a problem (never mind the mismatched shape type like others already pointed out.)

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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8 hours ago, TomStraye said:

Or, to put it another way, does not the answer to questions about avatar gender depend on why you are asking? What is it that you actually want to know?

Usually when I'm asked about it, it's in connection with choosing which of two sets of animations and positions to use with scripted furniture, particularly when there's no coloured pose-balls from which to choose.    

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21 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

The "body type" parameter of a shape is a float (which isn't a binary type to begin with). You can have it set to 0.3874, which is neither 1 or 0.

Height is not a binary quantity either. Nor is weight. But since when has that stopped anyone describing anybody as 'short', 'fat', 'tall', 'thin' or whatever?

We all do it … "if(X>Y && X<Z){A=something;}else{A=something-else;}". Such is the nature of labelling.

Of course, you can argue about which values go with which labels, but that's a different issue entirely.

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19 hours ago, TomStraye said:

Height is not a binary quantity either. Nor is weight. But since when has that stopped anyone describing anybody as 'short', 'fat', 'tall', 'thin' or whatever?

We all do it … "if(X>Y && X<Z){A=something;}else{A=something-else;}". Such is the nature of labelling.

Of course, you can argue about which values go with which labels, but that's a different issue entirely.

That has absolutely nothing to do with what was said.
Innula was suggesting giving users the ability to have a "gender slider."
I said that is already possible, sort of. That's it.

I don't care about labeling things, nor that other people do it, and I have no interest in discussing real-life gender politics/philosophy.
That's why I also disagreed with you saying that I took the words out of your mouth. I don't think that belongs into this topic at all.

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