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Emotional abuse and cults in RP sims

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

That part. Camming.

Breaks the wall between SL and RL.

If you demand I hand over RL info, you've violated the TOS in a bannable way.



Stay anonymous

Don’t ever tell anyone online your “real life” information
, including your real full name or your parents’ names, home address, school name or location, phone/mobile numbers, social security & credit card numbers, or
anything that shows what you look like such as a photo, video or webcam link
. For your safety, we do not allow other users to search for you by age or any other personally identifiable information, and it is important to keep this information private. If someone asks you for this info, don’t give it to them!
Report the incident inworld at
Help > Report Abuse


  1. Disclosure

    Residents are
    entitled to a reasonable level of privacy
    with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing
    personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent
    -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile --
    is not allowed
    . Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.


Consent is voided when something is made a condition. Such as will ban you if you don't do this. This is just how the real world works, and it made further clear by the bit below:

8.2 You will not post or transmit prohibited Content, including any Content that is illegal, harassing or violates any person's rights.

You agree that you will not:

(v) Post, display or transmit Content that is harmful, threatening or harassing, defamatory, libelous, false, inaccurate, misleading, or
invades another person's privacy;


There are many conditions you can put on a person being a part of your sim or your RP or your SL scene. Forcing them to give over real-life information is NOT one of these.

Oh, and on the "sir" part...
You could probably be a jerk and require people call you sir - but that's not where this kind of thing comes up. "Sir" is a strawman distraction attempt. It comes up with harassment.
There are rules about harassment in SL as well. Quite often I see not this "Sir" analogy you made, but the defense of "can ban anyone they want" made for racist groups.

The counter to that is:

(vi) Post, display or transmit Content that is obscene, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;


You are reading a lot into that that is NOT there.

I mean seriously.

Very seriously.



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I've read most of this thread, but not all, so please forgive me if this has been suggested already.

It reminds me a bit of an episode some years ago when someone who was then quite a well-known blogger and TPV developer had a falling-out with an RP sim in which she'd been involved, over matters which seem very similar to what you describe.

She published an account on her blog of the episode, naming names and providing pictures, transcripts of chat logs and IMs etc, and all the stuff she couldn't do here in these forums.

That seemed quite effective.

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It's a good thought, Innula, except most of the really damning statements occurred in IMs or one-on-one chats, and sharing those woudl be a violation of the TOS.  (This jerk refused to even let me share them wiht the owners of the sim).  I think the bottom line on all this is that there will always be room for some cyber-bullying and abuse without violation of the TOS.  Just like the break-up of one's first SL love affair, one's first bad sim experience can be charged off to experience.

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Waif LittleBoots wrote:

It's a good thought, Innula, except most of the really damning statements occurred in IMs or one-on-one chats, and sharing those woudl be a violation of the TOS.  (This jerk refused to even let me share them wiht the owners of the sim).  I think the bottom line on all this is that there will always be room for some cyber-bullying and abuse without violation of the TOS.  Just like the break-up of one's first SL love affair, one's first bad sim experience can be charged off to experience.

Nope.  The reason I said to do it somewhere other than these forums is that it would thus be outside the jurisdiction of the ToS.  

As the wiki explains, in an LL Official section on Disclosing private second life conversations

Sharing or posting a conversation inworld or in the Second Life forums without consent of all involved Residents is a violation of the Terms of Service.

NOTE: This does not include posting of chat to social media sites or other websites. Posting such logs on web pages, emailing them, or printing them out and posting them on utility poles in the "real world" -- are all actions beyond the scope of the Second Life Terms of Service.;

Posting them here is against ToS. But there's nothing to stop you posting them on Facebook, SLU, your own blog or whatever.

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How interesting!

Consent is voided when something is made a condition?  I can't wait to review all the contracts I've signed in the last 20 years! (My mortgage is the first one that comes to mind.)

Aside from those guidelines referenced being, ya know, guidelines, and teen-safety guidelines at that, the question of consent, the definition of it and how it might be voided through coercion or conditions, seems like one for lawyers, and a hairy one at that given the context and the rampant riffing on coercion going on in Second Life.

I'd hazard a layman's guess that the legal issue would come into play IF the person in question had given something of perceived value as a result of the coercion, like money or sex. Since the person in question walked away with little more than unpleasant feelings, I can't help but doubt any law, civil or criminal, was violated.

Not being a lawyer myself, I don't know the legal answer, but since the real world was referenced, I would say, as an adult resident of the real world, that if someone was applying conditions or coercion I was uncomfortable with, I would remove myself from the situation.

More specifically, if someone was being a domineering a--hole, I'd likely tell him to f-- off...and remove myself from the situation, his house, his sim..whatever the case may be.

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I think she is more upset about the fact that she has invested time into the sim. Built and created things and the new owner of the sim is a nasty douc....well you know what I mean. She is hurt that all her hard work.. Years possibly are gone because of **bleep** decided to blackmail her. I would be upset to. The level of rudeness and anger out of some of you...wow. Dial it down.


Sorry for your loss all that time and effort. I hope none of your friends do something foolish to hold on to the sim they helped create and one day you learn to just let it roll. Sl is full of nasty people because of the lack of rl rules but I look at it this way. It's also beautiful for those lack of rule. Nothing holding us back from being us as well as meeting like minded people. I wish you a speedy recovery of the heart.

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I understand your problem well. It reminds me of an infamous sim that trains girls in a style that closely follows the 'Madame O' story. The OOC requirements and 'certification' are quite intense and I know for a fact that the final 'exam' involves enforced 3 weeks of total SL isolation in a cage in a dark room. Now I have little problem if people want to take things to that extreme in SL RP, however there are rumours that keep coming up about girls being encouraged to seek out the owners of the sim in RL.

I know of one person that has made a greylist of sims like these ones where the people involved are 'blackmailed' ( for want of a better word) into all kinds RL disclosure. Unfortunately she is having other problems ATM and her blog is closed or I would point you in her direction.

My advice to you is to move on, you are too close to it and that effects perspective. Your RL is the treasure that you guard, If someone you cannot trust completely wants it or you, walk away and find another sim other friends or even another platform.

P.S. If you IM me I can put you in touch with someone that perhaps you can talk to who has a lot of experience in these kind of things.

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I may be misunderstanding the OP's original purpose here, especially since there are no specifics given. And in sl, I am highly guarded. I give out almost no rl info, and I'm very picky about those who I do give it to. those who know me best in sl know what state I live in, but not whaat town, what profession I work in, but not what company.... You get the point. So, any experience I can draw from comes from rl, not sl.

There were plenty of venues that I have stopped frequenting, and plenty of jobs that I have moved on from due to changes that I have considered unacceptable. There are plently of friends that I no longer associate with due to decisions they have made. The way I see it, while the OP has basically made it clear that there was nothing done that is considered legally wrong (based on the comment that Linden lab has been contacted and determined that there was no violation of TOS) the OP feels morally wronged. I have felt the same way, and felt the need to move on.

The bottom line is that you can feel some sort of vindication by just moving along. It may not be the easiest decision to make. It may require a change that you view as extreme. But there are rl businesses that have shut down not long after I lost interest. And believe me, it's not because I'm someone special. Rather, it's because I was someone "typical." In other words, experiences that I had perhaps taken more personally than I should have were experiences that were shared with these business's other patrons. If these sims that you're referring to were in fact just "llimping along" then that means that someone has a personal investment in them, and even those who are giving money to the cause are only a short time away from feeling exactly how you do.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while some form of legal action may provide you with the imediate gratification and sense of justice that you're looking for, in the long term, the best thing to do is wait for karma to show it's effect. If what this sim owner or admin member is doing is as offputting as the op made it seem, then eventualy the ful financial burden of the sim will fall on the shoulders of fewer and fewer people, until either there is nobody left or the situatiion is resolved in a satisfactory manner.

Although it may seem harsh to say, the truth is that in time, you or one of your friends will either find something that entails all of what you love about the sim where these abuses take place with none of the shortcomings, or someone in your group, if you are as tight as you make it seem wil say, "let's put our heads and our resources together and make something." If you move on, others will move with you. Your group may change a little. You will meet new people, and some of your oold people will stay behind. It may be painful at first, but eventually, all of you as individuals will feel that you made the decision that was right for you.

I said at the beginning of this post that all of my experiences were from rl. Well, in a way I can take that back. There is one sim that I spent 14 months on as a different character. An OOC rule change made the sim unappealing to me. It was not abusive or extreme as the examples you gave. It did not in any way blur the line between sl and rl. But what it did was make people who played certain classes of characters feel less welcome. In the end, I can accept that what the owner of that sim did was cause a demographic change. But those who I knew well, and who I consider true friends in the end made the same decision that I did... that it's time to retire our characters from that sim, and find a different one that feels more rewarding. The sim we left is still doing quite well, and I hope they continue to. But when I parted from that sim, and told the reason why to my friends, they came too. It was not a malicious boycott or anyting of the sort. It was simply a matter of "We've created characters that meshed perfectly with the old rules, and not at all with the new ones. The sim is changing in a way that may create more traffic, but no longer fits my style." To the OP, I have faith that because your example is much more extreme than mine, if you move on, you can bring your friends with you. And I wish you the best of luck.

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